This one is for Buh

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,138]

12 hours ago, Petriix said:

I simply can't agree with this. We've still got some challenges off the ball, particularly in defensive transitions, which Farke's double pivot had almost totally resolved (at Championship level at least). And Farke's attacking transitions were far more incisive than much of what we've seen under Smith. 

At least Smith has finally shown willingness to change the starting 11. The longer he persevered with Rashica, the more inept he looked. And shockingly playing Sargent in his actual position has reaped dividends too.

Smith was dealt the same hand that Farke was. I'm still firmly in the 'sacking Farke was a mistake' camp; but Smith finally has a little bit of credit to play with. It's a start but nothing more. We absolutely should be beating Huddersfield and Millwall at home. Let's see how we're doing after 10 games. Hopefully we've turned a corner. 

Really? You're a good poster who talks sense but anyone should be able to see how much better we are off the ball as a team now so I'm surprised you think that. For as good as we were at our best under Farke I still vividly remember us just slowly jogging back when we lost the ball and players not putting in challenges and standing off teams too much. Skipp and Mclean as a double pivot solved the issue at Championship level I agree, but that was because they got through so much work stopping opposition players on their own, now we work and press as a team without playing with a proper Skipp or Tettey like defensive midfielder, we also get back much quicker when we need to.

I loved watching us play under Farke, but the sight of players slowly jogging back and not in enough numbers when we lost the ball used to absolutely infuriate me and it's why teams were able to counter attack us so easily in the PL. I think we get the ball forward in transitions quicker now as well, sometimes a little too quickly but I like what we're trying to do, it was too slow under Farke a lot of the time who liked to build the play and be more patient when creating chances. Buendia and Vrancic were often capable of finding a quick through ball from deep, but without players like that in Farke's last stint in the PL it was all way too slow and one paced, under Smith we get the ball forward quickly as a team, every player looks for forward passes in transition and we're not relaying so much on individual quality. I think that's the difference between the two, Farke's football is beautiful but it needs good players for the level we're playing at, Smith is trying to get more out of the team as a whole, he still needs good players, but we don't rely on individual brilliance as much anymore. 

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

Smith's style has more focus on switching play from side-to-side to eventually create space for men in the middle to work, or for slinging a cross in. As others have said, his style without the ball is much more aggressive than we ever were under Farke. Farke was happy to concede ground and defend much deeper - but this was also due to Stiepi fading somewhat. He was a very aggressive defender from the front in that first Champ-winning season Farke had as he clocked a lot of tackles (or slowed the opposition down).

Not hard to see why Sinani's got minutes. He plays a rather fast game and always looks to keep play moving briskly. Nunez is fairly similar but is taking a few too many touches. Nothing much to worry about, he's come over into a new team/country and is still getting used to everyone and the intensity of the league. Sinani's already used to the intensity with last year's loan.

We're seeing a midfield more in tune with what Smith wants, and the football's improved as a result.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I think there is a tendency to forget after a couple of wins, that we are in a league lower.

[TIL 1010 4,750]

It appears two swallows make a summer.

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,286]

41 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Try telling the majority of Championship clubs and their fans that £10 mil players aren't that expensive.

We're a Man City or Liverpool in this league.

Watford, Burnley, Middlesbrough, West Brom, Sheff Utd, QPR, Cardiff and Hull City all have record transfers higher than ours.. that’s 8 sets of fans straight off the bat that would agree £10 million isn’t that expensive.

 

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

11 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I think there is a tendency to forget after a couple of wins, that we are in a league lower.

Agreed, but also note Smith's got a bit more freedom to put the team in his image now he has a transfer window where he will be supported (he wasn't on the first one) and the opposition aren't quite as talented so aren't quite as adept at taking advantage of inevitable mistakes.

[canarydan23 4,060]

13 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

Watford, Burnley, Middlesbrough, West Brom, Sheff Utd, QPR, Cardiff and Hull City all have record transfers higher than ours.. that’s 8 sets of fans straight off the bat that would agree £10 million isn’t that expensive.

 

I suspect every single one of those record signings were when they were in the Prem. I think Sara is somewhere around the 15th most expensive signing by a Championship club in the Championship ever. If that's not expensive for the league we're in then not a lot is.

[Mason 47 1,382]

The media price tag assigned to these players exists because that's what was paid for them, their actual value isn't the same thing. Nunez cost 3-4m but IMO is already playing like we spent 5x that, for example. Or Pukki was a free, so he's worth 0m

We're at the same points total after the same amount of games last time under Farke, so to say 'this squad is behind where it should be' implies that this squad is decidedly better than 2 years ago.

If the squad is decidedly better than 2 years ago, and we romped to the league title back then, really we should have nothing to worry about, right?

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,286]

34 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

I suspect every single one of those record signings were when they were in the Prem. I think Sara is somewhere around the 15th most expensive signing by a Championship club in the Championship ever. If that's not expensive for the league we're in then not a lot is.

15th.. I think that counters your argument! If we were the Man City or Liverpool of the championship, as you put it, we’d have a record signing in the top 3 all time.

[canarydan23 4,060]

21 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

We're at the same points total after the same amount of games last time under Farke, so to say 'this squad is behind where it should be' implies that this squad is decidedly better than 2 years ago.

No it doesn't. It means two years ago we were behind where we should have been too. We had also played one of the league's top teams away from home, and only two home games, in Farke's first 5 games.

And back then we had a manager who'd already won the Championship, not someone whose several attempts with promotion contending squads culminated with a highest ever position of 5th.

So, a bit to worry about, yes.

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,286]

38 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

I suspect every single one of those record signings were when they were in the Prem. I think Sara is somewhere around the 15th most expensive signing by a Championship club in the Championship ever. If that's not expensive for the league we're in then not a lot is.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/transferrekorde/wettbewerb/GB2/plus//galerie/0?saison_id=alle&land_id=alle&ausrichtung=alle&spielerposition_id=alle&altersklasse=alle&leihe=&w_s=&zuab=zu

Sara 19th. 

 

[Mason 47 1,382]

13 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

No it doesn't. It means two years ago we were behind where we should have been too. We had also played one of the league's top teams away from home, and only two home games, in Farke's first 5 games.

And back then we had a manager who'd already won the Championship, not someone whose several attempts with promotion contending squads culminated with a highest ever position of 5th.

So, a bit to worry about, yes.

So is the squad better or worse than last time in your opinion? Or the same?

[Branston Pickle 3,661]

1 hour ago, TIL 1010 said:

It appears two swallows make a summer.

Quite so - if I were one of the doubters I’d probably not have changed position just yet.  But then I’d not have formed my negative position based on a couple of games of the season, either. People don’t seem to have learned from Farke’s time that sometimes a few games are needed  

It is what it is. I don’t think a huge amount has changed other than the results are starting to match the performances.  But we still need to see where we are after 10-15 games.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Branston Pickle

[Mason 47 1,382]

23 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

It is what it is. I don’t think a huge amount has changed other than the results are starting to match the performances.  But we still need to see where we are after 10-15 games.

I agree

I just can't rationalise the doom n' gloom attitude in some quarters at the moment is all

I think teams like Man City and Liverpool have affected perception in football, that to be successful your victories have to be total and absolute. Concede zero goals, be in control for 90 out of 94 minutes, win by a margin of 3 or more. Certainly a lot of Norwich fans have the our own version of this delusion, that to be successful we need to play like 'Leeds away' Farke or there's no point to any of it.

I think we're doing fine. Results were lagging behind performances and it seems to be catching up.

[Petriix 2,839]

2 hours ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

Really? You're a good poster who talks sense but anyone should be able to see how much better we are off the ball as a team now so I'm surprised you think that. For as good as we were at our best under Farke I still vividly remember us just slowly jogging back when we lost the ball and players not putting in challenges and standing off teams too much. Skipp and Mclean as a double pivot solved the issue at Championship level I agree, but that was because they got through so much work stopping opposition players on their own, now we work and press as a team without playing with a proper Skipp or Tettey like defensive midfielder, we also get back much quicker when we need to.

I loved watching us play under Farke, but the sight of players slowly jogging back and not in enough numbers when we lost the ball used to absolutely infuriate me and it's why teams were able to counter attack us so easily in the PL. I think we get the ball forward in transitions quicker now as well, sometimes a little too quickly but I like what we're trying to do, it was too slow under Farke a lot of the time who liked to build the play and be more patient when creating chances. Buendia and Vrancic were often capable of finding a quick through ball from deep, but without players like that in Farke's last stint in the PL it was all way too slow and one paced, under Smith we get the ball forward quickly as a team, every player looks for forward passes in transition and we're not relaying so much on individual quality. I think that's the difference between the two, Farke's football is beautiful but it needs good players for the level we're playing at, Smith is trying to get more out of the team as a whole, he still needs good players, but we don't rely on individual brilliance as much anymore. 

I think you're (perhaps falsely) equating the tactical choice to press with 'being good off the ball'. I recall some issues in Farke's season with poor tracking, but last season was more about the switch away from the double pivot and the poor players: Normann and Gilmour in particular were guilty of jogging about in midfield when out of possession under both Farke and Smith.

Farke very successfully employed a strategy of conserving energy at times rather than pressing. However, we scored a large number goals by winning the ball in the attacking third.

Yes, we totally failed to replace the creativity of Buendia and Vrancic (and even Stiepermann in a weird way) under Farke in the PL. But, no, I don't think it was just individual brilliance. We were always more than the sum of our parts. Unfortunately the recruitment was poor. I don't think that was Farke's fault.

In my opinion Smith is still asking too much of the midfield trio and there are resulting issues in transitions. Under Farke our wide attackers had significantly more defensive responsibility. 

[Clever Farke 64]

6 hours ago, The Real Buh said:

Pff

Dean Smith out

hes not right for the club. You think a win against Milwall changes that?

happy we’ve won, cheered the Goals (I knows that one will annoy some of you 😂😂) but I don’t support Dean Smith.

Do you think the new American director will accept mid-table and “Deano” running the football side of things?

He’s not right for our club? You know this, how? It’s the way he takes his tea? Ok.  
Maybe Attanasio likes the cut of his jib, after all he wants to play an entertaining brand of football, continues developing and integrating young talent for huge future returns.  If he continues to provide winning football as well what’s not to like? 
So is Attanasio right for our club and does he even drink tea? 

[The Real Buh 3,444]

Just now, Clever Farke said:

He’s not right for our club? You know this, how? It’s the way he takes his tea? Ok.  
Maybe Attanasio likes the cut of his jib, after all he wants to play an entertaining brand of football, continues developing and integrating young talent for huge future returns.  If he continues to provide winning football as well what’s not to like? 
So is Attanasio right for our club and does he even drink tea? 

If we are in the upper middle table come the January transfer window and there’s a possibility of a run but it’s not totally sure is our new investor going to trust this manager or “give him a season to get ‘his team’” or is he going to get somebody in to get his new investment into the premier league.

I imagine Webber is packing his bags already btw

investment will come with caveats and hopefully and increase in expected levels of performance. Hopefully that bleeds through to some of our fanbase as well who always seem to accept 8th best

[pete 319]

I must admit Smiths selections have improved the outlook for this season.  This transformation has come out of the blue and we are looking good.  Who knew Sargent would be this good up on his own Smith didn't only  played upfront as Pukki injured.  The changes in midfield have been effective but Gibbs and Sinani not in team but now integral.  Nunez pulling the strings as we hoped.  Rashica who probably thought he was better than he  was given kick in the pants, now must show jmprovement.

One issue is the set peices, the  England team specialist has not improved City at corners, should coach the players to put balls into the mixer.  Corner taker needs to be comfortable with delivering try Nunez.

[CirclePoint 203]

15 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

If we are in the upper middle table come the January transfer window and there’s a possibility of a run but it’s not totally sure is our new investor going to trust this manager or “give him a season to get ‘his team’” or is he going to get somebody in to get his new investment into the premier league.

I imagine Webber is packing his bags already btw

investment will come with caveats and hopefully and increase in expected levels of performance. Hopefully that bleeds through to some of our fanbase as well who always seem to accept 8th best

I enjoy listening to how you justify your speculation with half-baked assumptions.

You demonstrate all of the same qualities as a has-been tv pundit, which, along with your 'what ifs' and 'imaginings', do bring a smile.

Thanks for that.

[The Real Buh 3,444]

Just now, CirclePoint said:

I enjoy listening to how you justify your speculation with half-baked assumptions.

You demonstrate all of the same qualities as a has-been tv pundit, which, along with your 'what ifs' and 'imaginings', do bring a smile.

Thanks for that.

I seem to remember Neil Adams starting well in the championship…

[ged in the onion bag 855]

4 hours ago, Inch High aka Inchy.. said:

Pukki being injured has instigated a turnaround not Dean Smith.

Possible but then again Pukki might have scored goals to get us the wins!   It has been on the cards that wins were on the way!  

[Paint Me Yellow 200]

6 hours ago, Greavsy said:

You do realise it was an evening match. 

And mobile devices are erm..... Mobile?  

You do realise Buh's not obliged to "check in" to the Pink 'Un match thread whilst at the ground?

[Greavsy 2,415]

8 hours ago, The Real Buh said:

I didn’t post yesterday because I was AT THE GAME you know, the football match. With Norwich and Milwall. In Norwich, at Carrow road lol

 

35 minutes ago, Paint Me Yellow said:

You do realise Buh's not obliged to "check in" to the Pink 'Un match thread whilst at the ground?

Absolutely.

You do realise it was an 8pm kick off. I accept he may have been busy too,  like work or something, but that doesnt usually stop him.  

[Clever Farke 64]

3 hours ago, The Real Buh said:

If we are in the upper middle table come the January transfer window and there’s a possibility of a run but it’s not totally sure is our new investor going to trust this manager or “give him a season to get ‘his team’” or is he going to get somebody in to get his new investment into the premier league.

I imagine Webber is packing his bags already btw

investment will come with caveats and hopefully and increase in expected levels of performance. Hopefully that bleeds through to some of our fanbase as well who always seem to accept 8th best

Difficult to know yet. I hope they have that ambition and the will to achieve it. But one thing is for sure, Webber will pack bags and go up a mountain.  

[Fiery Zac 1,066]

6 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

It appears two swallows make a summer.

Love it. It's ok for the whinge brigade to be out in force (whether the performances warrant it or not) but a few posters talk POSITIVELY about the latest performances and prospects for the season, and that's unacceptable.

If 10x more posters can proclaim our mediocrity or relegation scrap after ONE game of the season, I'll happily take my place in team positivity and patience thanks very much. 

[CirclePoint 203]

4 hours ago, The Real Buh said:

I seem to remember Neil Adams starting well in the championship…

Of how perfect. A comment such as this implies that you think NCFC have had a good a start to the season, which would run counter to pretty much every comment you've made so far about the team's start thus far.

This is exactly what I'm referring to when I identified how you justify your speculation with half-baked assumptions. You're simply sensationalizing the negativity, and flip-flop when you're called out.

Again, all the qualities and intellect of a struggling tv pundit looking to boost their ratings.

But hey, we all get our kicks somehow.... 😉

And weren't you the one screaming yehaw, kick it for a touch down 3-pointer, sports bar, about Sargent? Another poor, speculative cry in the wilderness for attention. Enjoy the humble pie.

 

[The Real Buh 3,444]

16 minutes ago, CirclePoint said:

Of how perfect. A comment such as this implies that you think NCFC have had a good a start to the season, which would run counter to pretty much every comment you've made so far about the team's start thus far.

This is exactly what I'm referring to when I identified how you justify your speculation with half-baked assumptions. You're simply sensationalizing the negativity, and flip-flop when you're called out.

Again, all the qualities and intellect of a struggling tv pundit looking to boost their ratings.

But hey, we all get our kicks somehow.... 😉

And weren't you the one screaming yehaw, kick it for a touch down 3-pointer, sports bar, about Sargent? Another poor, speculative cry in the wilderness for attention. Enjoy the humble pie.

 

…what?

Neil Adams started well with a fortunate set of fixtures but did at least have the good grace to admit he was beat and resign. Smith won’t. We lose a succession of games he’ll urge us to stay calm while we finish mid table and wait for him to lose to Ipswich.

And this guy WILL lose to Ipswich, I can see it in his eyes.

we’ve had a half-hearted strained start to the season. Adams actually did much better if I recall.

I haven’t flip-flopped on anything. I still want Dean Smith out and I want Webber out. I’m hopeful that a director joining with higher standards for this club will recognise Dean Smith isn’t the man to take us to that next level, having failed at Villa and with us at the premier league.

everyone’s made fun of Josh sargeant, pretending you haven’t makes your look stupid. He literally missed an open goal and nutmegged himself. What are we supposed to do? 

[Virtual reality 712]

6 very welcome points go ease the pressure on the manager, But we all would have had these two fixtures down as 6 points before a ball was kicked this season. He’s far from out of the woods and he now needs to build on this with the next 2 away games 

[Ken Hairy 3,773]

8 hours ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/transferrekorde/wettbewerb/GB2/plus//galerie/0?saison_id=alle&land_id=alle&ausrichtung=alle&spielerposition_id=alle&altersklasse=alle&leihe=&w_s=&zuab=zu

Sara 19th. 

 

But that's of all time,  if we're looking at current squads only he's 3rd, and 2nd really as Jordan Rhodes is 1 and 2

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

I was keeping quiet about it while results were still going the wrong way, but I find the whole pondering the tactics in a live multi-million pound game of football in real time over a nice cup of tea rather charmingly English.