Is anyone convinced by Dean Smith?

[hogesar 9,676]

I think people can legitimately be concerned about if he's the right fit for us, and if he can get a real tune out of this squad.

I hugely disagree with those saying he lacks a personality and is hard to warm to compared to Farke.

Thats because I spent most of my posting time during Farkes first season having to defend him from those exact same claims. Suddenly once winning its much easier to warm to a manager who can then be a more open book with fans. 

During Farkes first season he was called boring, uninspiring, weird, unlikeable, and even that he would never get our club having come from Germany.

[BurwellCanary 216]

9 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

No chance in hell  the fans will be up for giving him more time if we miss out on the playoffs.

I might be wrong but wasnt his contract to the end of next season anyway?

[KeiranShikari 1,412]

Just now, BurwellCanary said:

I might be wrong but wasnt his contract to the end of next season anyway?

2 and a half year deal iirc.

[Branston Pickle 3,660]

Just now, canarybubbles said:

It's my honest prediction. Most people on here make predictions. Some are saying we'll finish top two, some are saying play-offs, some are saying lower half. I don't mind putting my neck on the line. Where do you think we'll finish? Or don't you do predictions because you much prefer to sneer from the sidelines?

I don’t sneer from the sidelines at all, that’s a pretty strange comment - this is a message board for comment/opinion.

I expect us to be at least in the top 6, but I don’t necessarily expect it from the off - we are traditionally quite slow starters, I recall a pretty iffy start in 1985/86 but we won the title at a canter, similarly under DF we didn’t get off to astonishing starts. 

At least one thing has been put to bed during pre-season, which is the strange idea that some had about DS being a long-ball merchant. 

[BurwellCanary 216]

3 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

2 and a half year deal iirc.

 

3 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

2 and a half year deal iirc.

Thanks - wasnt sure

[Segura 84]

I like Smith, but feel he's in a similar situation to dear old Hootun - nice guy, decent pedigree but following a successful manager is never easy.

It's really still Farke's team, so let's see how things look ten games in when Hayden and Sara have bedded in.

 

[Danke bitte 965]

I remember reading somewhere we were in for Cooper at one point as he’s close friends with Webber - or have I made that up?

[Van wink 2,994]

He's no Farke thats for sure

[Dean Coneys boots 1,400]

In Smith’s defence he must be the manager who has had to wait the longest to play a single one of his own signings 

[Capt. Pants 4,236]

5 minutes ago, Danke bitte said:

I remember reading somewhere we were in for Cooper at one point as he’s close friends with Webber - or have I made that up?

Either way Smith couldn't have been first choice when Webber had the idea to sack Farke.

[Indy 3,300]

9 minutes ago, hogesar said:

During Farkes first season he was called boring, uninspiring, weird, unlikeable, and even that he would never get our club having come from Germany.

I disagree, you could see Farke had a style from day one, he had some poor results but certainly we started to look very organised into a his team. It certainly took a few months and the following season to really show his personality in our teams.

[hogesar 9,676]

Just now, Indy said:

I disagree, you could see Farke had a style from day one, he had some poor results but certainly we started to look very organised into a his team. It certainly took a few months and the following season to really show his personality in our teams.

His style was roundly criticised first season though. I know, because I spent 12 months defending it 

[canarybubbles 1,915]

1 minute ago, Branston Pickle said:

I don’t sneer from the sidelines at all, that’s a pretty strange comment - this is a message board for comment/opinion.

I expect us to be at least in the top 6, but I don’t necessarily expect it from the off - we are traditionally quite slow starters, I recall a pretty iffy start in 1985/86 but we won the title at a canter, similarly under DF we didn’t get off to astonishing starts. 

At least one thing has been put to bed during pre-season, which is the strange idea that some had about DS being a long-ball merchant. 

Your last comment makes it clear that you know I'm one of those people who called him a long-ball merchant since you're one of the people who argued against me on this point.

I concede that today's game was not long-ball at all, but I still have reservations on this issue. It seems to me that the only time Smith has been even slightly successful with us has been when we've abandoned 'Farkeball' altogether and gone for a version of long-ball - the couple of games when Idah held up the ball and the pre-season games when we've used Rashica/other wingers for crosses into the box for Hugill's head. I fear this is the style we will eventually adopt because I don't see any sign at all that Smith has the vision to come up with anything more innovative.

Just my opinion.

[jaberry2 550]

Its still too early to judge tbh. He is slowly recruiting his style of player and getting rid of players which he is having to make do with. Let's see where we're at after 10 games in the championship 

[Kingston Yellow 220]

1 hour ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Not particularly, is anyone convinced by Webber?

Absolutely this.  The one consistent member of the management team over the last 5 years.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,821]

1 hour ago, Terminally Yellow said:

I don't necessarily think this topic needs to be linked to a friendly performance. Personally feel it's a relevant issue going into the new season.

Agreed, but it's no coincidence that it has followed a lacklustre friendly performance.

Last Saturday, we won convincingly away against a side, on paper, better than us and played well. Today, we lost against away against a side, on paper, better than us and didn't play well (I haven't seen anything of the game, but I'm basing that on what I've read).

I don't think much has changed in the last seven days with regards to Dean Smith as a coach or this squad as a group, unless of course Pierre Lees-Melou was the glue holding everything together. This forum was generally very positive after the Marseille game, but it seems like many have pressed the panic button after losing today. 

[Branston Pickle 3,660]

1 minute ago, canarybubbles said:

Your last comment makes it clear that you know I'm one of those people who called him a long-ball merchant since you're one of the people who argued against me on this point.

I concede that today's game was not long-ball at all, but I still have reservations on this issue. It seems to me that the only time Smith has been even slightly successful with us has been when we've abandoned 'Farkeball' altogether and gone for a version of long-ball - the couple of games when Idah held up the ball and the pre-season games when we've used Rashica/other wingers for crosses into the box for Hugill's head. I fear this is the style we will eventually adopt because I don't see any sign at all that Smith has the vision to come up with anything more innovative.

Just my opinion.

Is that not just having a different plan/being pragmatic?  one of the major criticisms of Farke was that we was too rigid and had no plan B.  Imo you need to be willing to mix things up, it makes you less predictable.  Playing the odd long ball is absolutely fine.

[hogesar 9,676]

3 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

Your last comment makes it clear that you know I'm one of those people who called him a long-ball merchant since you're one of the people who argued against me on this point.

I concede that today's game was not long-ball at all, but I still have reservations on this issue. It seems to me that the only time Smith has been even slightly successful with us has been when we've abandoned 'Farkeball' altogether and gone for a version of long-ball - the couple of games when Idah held up the ball and the pre-season games when we've used Rashica/other wingers for crosses into the box for Hugill's head. I fear this is the style we will eventually adopt because I don't see any sign at all that Smith has the vision to come up with anything more innovative.

Just my opinion.

So you were completely wrong about Long Ball so have created a theoretical scenario in the future where you will somehow end up right..

[canarybubbles 1,915]

1 minute ago, Branston Pickle said:

Is that not just having a different plan/being pragmatic?  one of the major criticisms of Farke was that we was too rigid and had no plan B.  Imo you need to be willing to mix things up, it makes you less predictable.  Playing the odd long ball is absolutely fine.

Yes, playing the odd long ball is absolutely fine, of course.

[glory.win or die. 270]

He reminds me of Bruce Rioch, who also came with a highly respected coach.

I just remember us trying to be solid, professional but had Bellamy as 1 source of light but I never really bought into his way.

Looking back in think he did far better than I appreciated, and barring that Muscat tackle things could have been more successful.

The 1 difference is our squad then was pretty average whilst Smiths squad is definitely in the top 6 in terms of quality and depth at least so I don't expect Farkeball but see us grinding out wins 

 

[canarybubbles 1,915]

31 minutes ago, hogesar said:

So you were completely wrong about Long Ball so have created a theoretical scenario in the future where you will somehow end up right..

No, I wasn't completely wrong about long ball. I assume you watched most of the matches under Smith last season and you are not being honest if you don't accept that for many of those games we had one tactic: long aimless diagonal balls to the wingers or long aimless balls for Pukki to chase. And when we didn't have some form of long ball, we had no visible structure or plan whatsoever. There may have been reasons for that - justifiable reasons, such as a woeful midfield - but the style was long ball.

I will admit that the pre-season games have not generally featured long ball (although the first half against Cambridge was close) because I try to be honest about what I see. Unlike you, who are not beneath twisting the truth to suit your argument, as, for instance, when you romanticise Smith's time at Brentford and turn it into a shining success, totally ignoring the fact - a rather brute fact, I admit, but a fact all the same - that he took a team that had finished in the play-offs to three consecutive seasons of midtable mediocrity. So get off your high horse, and stop pretending that you don't bend or ignore facts when it suits you just like everyone else.

Edited July 23, 2022 by canarybubbles

[Chichcan 148]

1 hour ago, Cantiaci Canary said:

Okay, hear me out here, I would say - yes, Smith's what we need.

The attraction of Farke was his extremely narrow / idealistic approach. It was dead easy for us fans to see exactly what he wanted us to do, and that was exhilarating, BUT it was darn obvious to our Premier League opponents too. After we dared to beat Man City we were worked out and unpicked.

Smith prefers a more flexible, robust, English style which will serve us better in the long run. We will be more adaptable and better moulded for top flight football. 

He's a very bright guy - have patience ... it'll work out in the end.

I agree with this actually.

I think Smith and Shakespeare are as good as we can hope for. It's only the season before last that Smith finished 11th with Villa including scoring 7 past Liverpool and was widely praised as an excellent coach

I think in the long term his more flexible style with a high press is more likely to succeed than Farke's, which only ever really worked when Buendia and Pukki clicked

Plus he has a great record of bringing on youth players

Edited July 23, 2022 by Chichcan

[Yobocop 1,099]

1 hour ago, Pyro Pete said:

Until Hayden and Sara are fit to start, it's still the same squad (returning loanees aside) as last season.

That means a lack of creativity in midfield for Pukki. Lack of protection from midfield for the defence. And assorted fitness problems.

We may have to be patient this season. It could take at least two transfer windows for Smith to get close to a first eleven he can call his own.

And effectively the same squad who got us promoted from the championship as well 

[wheres my rebate gone? 85]

23 minutes ago, hogesar said:

His style was roundly criticised first season though. I know, because I spent 12 months defending it 

I’m not sure that true of most people, maybe you had to from a select few but everyone could see how he wanted us to play and the missing product was goals in that first season!

[canarybubbles 1,915]

1 hour ago, Cantiaci Canary said:

Okay, hear me out here, I would say - yes, Smith's what we need.

The attraction of Farke was his extremely narrow / idealistic approach. It was dead easy for us fans to see exactly what he wanted us to do, and that was exhilarating, BUT it was darn obvious to our Premier League opponents too. After we dared to beat Man City we were worked out and unpicked.

Smith prefers a more flexible, robust, English style which will serve us better in the long run. We will be more adaptable and better moulded for top flight football. 

He's a very bright guy - have patience ... it'll work out in the end.

I normally agree with your opinions on here, Cantiaci, but on this one I can't.

IMO he's just wrong for our club. I know you're going to say that's just a feeling, something I can't justify. That's true. I can try to put forward arguments but at heart it's a belief. But your ' have patience - it'll work out in the end' is the same - essentially a statement of faith.

Time will tell who is right. For the sake of our club, I hope it's you.

Edited July 23, 2022 by canarybubbles

[Jimmy Raggatip 60]

what are the alternatives? I don't really want Dyche

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

I simply take the fact that Cantwell seems to be back in a good place and keen to be involved as a sign that he's a decent manager who's capable of bringing the best out in players. I'm looking forward to next week now. 

[canarybubbles 1,915]

40 minutes ago, hogesar said:

So you were completely wrong about Long Ball so have created a theoretical scenario in the future where you will somehow end up right..

Anyway, I don't want to spend my time arguing with you and Hertford and Branston. What's the point? It doesn't change anything, does it? Someone will be right and someone will be wrong. I think I'm going back to just lurking. Bye.

[Captain Holt 522]

Never have been.

A) Wouldn't have appointed him.

B) Would have sacked him at the end of the season.

C) Would sack him right now.

[TIL 1010 4,748]

1 hour ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

In Smith’s defence he must be the manager who has had to wait the longest to play a single one of his own signings 

That wait may well be several games into the coming season unless we sign an oven ready player during the next week.

Edited July 23, 2022 by TIL 1010