EXCLUSIVE: US tycoons in Norwich City investment talks

[Worthy Nigelton 1,058]

2 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Lol 

Not really because he's not a soppy old idiot who hasn't a clue. Nor is Delia to be fair. 

If you look at them as a couple who have majority owned a football club for nearly 25 years you'd realise they very much know and understand the challenges involved. Far more than us, journos and other owners.

Of course they do and they are smart people... which is entirely my point. I'm not knocking them at all - they've been excellent owners and are bang on Hall of Famers.

[The Real Buh 3,455]

6 minutes ago, Hairy Canary said:

Cricket is a thinking man’s game Buh. It won’t appeal to you.

It’s getting drunk in a tent outside the venue pretending to watch the cricket because it’s so boring is what it is

[cornish sam 960]

3 minutes ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

She has said that she has taken her money back out again so she is nett and I know how an asset works.

She has never needed to cash in as you have said as she has plenty enough for her life but wanted to pass it on to nephew Tom (her extended family) and it made no financial sense to cash it in while she was enjoying being involved, going to games, he was drawing a salary anyway and it was in an increasingly lucrative industry. 

Again,I want to reiterate, I'm a Delia fan and don't want her to sell particularly but get real everyone!

I think we are both coming from a similar standing so don't want to get into a disagreement here, but just to clarify, she has recouped her loans but has still invested other money in the club, in the past it has been quoted as low millions. 

The nephew tom thing, whilst he is a director I thought she had recently rescinded the idea of passing the club onto him, but I may be wrong as I'm just going on what has been said on here and it's about as reliable and contradictory as Twitter so it's not a hill I'd die on...

[nutty nigel 7,565]

7 minutes ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

Of course they do and they are smart people... which is entirely my point. I'm not knocking them at all - they've been excellent owners and are bang on Hall of Famers.

For sure. 👍

[nutty nigel 7,565]

16 minutes ago, cornish sam said:

I think we are both coming from a similar standing so don't want to get into a disagreement here, but just to clarify, she has recouped her loans but has still invested other money in the club, in the past it has been quoted as low millions. 

The nephew tom thing, whilst he is a director I thought she had recently rescinded the idea of passing the club onto him, but I may be wrong as I'm just going on what has been said on here and it's about as reliable and contradictory as Twitter so it's not a hill I'd die on...

They didn't recoup their loans. They were paid back the last loan. The other loans were transferred to shares so became worthless. They may be worth something now but only what someone else is prepared to pay.  *Practically all* their shareholding comes from shares nobody else wanted. Whether from Geoffrey Watling or from share issues/rights issues they underwrote.

*That should probably say "most"

Someone more knowledgeable than me could probably give a percentage.

Edited May 29, 2022 by nutty nigel
Poor wording

[lake district canary 4,541]

6 minutes ago, cornish sam said:

The nephew tom thing, whilst he is a director I thought she had recently rescinded the idea of passing the club onto him, but I may be wrong as I'm just going on what has been said on here and it's about as reliable and contradictory as Twitter so it's not a hill I'd die on...

I think everyone has to realise the shares DS and MJW own are theirs to do what they want with - they could sell them or they could hand them on - it is up to them. If they maintain a stake in the club - and why shouldn't they - then to pass it on to a relative is natural progression - like any relative might leave you something in their will. The shares are theirs. They bought them with money that they earned and if Tom Smith is a true fan - and I have no reason to think he isn't - then to inherit the shares is quite normal and totally uncontroversial. 

Some fans think that the shares should be sold to someone who has more money to invest - but as we are seeing - selling them is not necessarily what is needed. What IS needed is stability, continuity and investment of the right kind. It really does look as if that is possible with these negotiations - keep the club as it is, but with the money and expertise to improve our ability to compete. A win win situation. Lets hope the negotiations work out as we all hope they will.

 

[PurpleCanary 5,578]

1 hour ago, Diane said:

Gary isn't a journalist Purple, he's the treasurer of the Canaries Trust who is very knowledgeable about shares, so has written a piece ( and answered lots of questions on twitter ) which helps some of us who don't have his expertise 🤣

Diane, I don't want to belabour this point, but it was a piece in  MFW, which is part of the media so I treat it as a piece of journalism, and refer accordingly. It is not a lack of politeness. I do it with all such, rather than pretending to a relationship that doesn't exist. So Gary Gowers, who also writes for MFW, is Gowers, and Paddy Davitt is Davitt. As it happens I now know, which I had no way of knowing before, that Gary Field is GMF.

[PurpleCanary 5,578]

2 hours ago, GMF said:

@essex canary the Club, in common with many others within football, seems intent at kicking this particular can down the road for the moment. The timeframes between the fan led review and this potential takeover are never likely to match.

Agreed. I would be very surprised if the EPL and parts of the EFL do not do all they can to delay and sabotage some of those key proposals in the Crouch Report. Yes, the government has accepted it, but that would be no guarantee of action from any government, and certainly not this one.

I am trying hard not to make a party political point, but the current administration is not renowned for competence and seeing policies through, and in any event although football is a populist issue what energies it has need to be concentrated on the economy.

One might hope for better if the next election produces an anti-Tory coalition, but if there is such it will have its hands full with much more pressing problems.

[chicken 2,640]

1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

Agreed. I would be very surprised if the EPL and parts of the EFL do not do all they can to delay and sabotage some of those key proposals in the Crouch Report. Yes, the government has accepted it, but that would be no guarantee of action from any government, and certainly not this one.

I am trying hard not to make a party political point, but the current administration is not renowned for competence and seeing policies through, and in any event although football is a populist issue what energies it has need to be concentrated on the economy.

One might hope for better if the next election produces an anti-Tory coalition, but if there is such it will have its hands full with much more pressing problems.

I think the biggest issue right now with any government backing, is that it potentially restricts teams in terms of wages they could pay out. When you limit wages, especially wages that are millions of pounds per year, you lose out on tax. I'd hate to guess how much tax revenue professional footballers contribute as well as national insurance! If the country is financially in a bit of a mess, is it likely they would elect to cut a source of income out? 

[Surfer 1,547]

9 hours ago, FenwayFrank said:

I can’t imagine it’s a good time to be opening new restaurants for a start if this multi use venue is going to generate money. What sports do you suggest that people are going to get behind or use ? 

I mentioned those in my earlier post - ice hockey and basketball. Because they need the same size arena and its one that's also common used for concerts...and why would opening new restaurants be a bad idea now? 

[CirclePoint 205]

6 hours ago, The Real Buh said:

I never said cricket was any good. It’s not, it’s crap.

American sports are soulless and don’t translate outside of the USA. That’s why nobody cares about NFL outside of the USA. They can’t translate it worldwide.

because it’s boring.

Not really.  It’s because everyone else sucks at the games played in America and nobody likes to lose all the time.

On the other hand, at least America is having a real go at playing soccer. But, they are at least two decades away from genuinely challenging for a significant trophy.

[CirclePoint 205]

5 hours ago, Cowboy said:

Yee-haw! Virtually every athlete in the World Series of baseball, and that turgid month-long game of forward passes, shoulder pads and world class advertising breaks. Beyond that a handful of track and field athletes, and the male and female World Champions of Burger Munching. So, yeah...

 Next….

[essex canary 504]

7 hours ago, lake district canary said:

I think everyone has to realise the shares DS and MJW own are theirs to do what they want with - they could sell them or they could hand them on - it is up to them. If they maintain a stake in the club - and why shouldn't they - then to pass it on to a relative is natural progression - like any relative might leave you something in their will. The shares are theirs. They bought them with money that they earned and if Tom Smith is a true fan - and I have no reason to think he isn't - then to inherit the shares is quite normal and totally uncontroversial. 

Some fans think that the shares should be sold to someone who has more money to invest - but as we are seeing - selling them is not necessarily what is needed. What IS needed is stability, continuity and investment of the right kind. It really does look as if that is possible with these negotiations - keep the club as it is, but with the money and expertise to improve our ability to compete. A win win situation. Lets hope the negotiations work out as we all hope they will.

 

No problem with the concept of 'don't look a gift horse in the mouth'. It is just that some of their gifts have been aimed at senior staff who may have performed very well in the first instance and then tailed off significantly. The same largesse has not been aimed at the fan base as besides the shareholder issues we can add Away Members charges and the recent season ticket increase etc.

As for the second paragraph we do not yet know. As others have said achieving compatibility between S&J remaining as majority shareholders for any appreciable time and securing this new investment may prove to be a substantial challenge. Due diligence is very important but equally "tomorrow never comes.'

[The Raptor 1,227]

On 28/05/2022 at 16:33, shefcanary said:

 

The new combined soccer stadium / hotel / arena development Attanasio is building.  This man is serious about things.  Feeling excited about City Stand development n

Arena development would be cool. It's a completely different topic I know but Norwich has been crying out for a bigger gig venue as long as I can remember. Not massive. But maybe 4-5000. 

 

[The Real Buh 3,455]

5 hours ago, CirclePoint said:

Not really.  It’s because everyone else sucks at the games played in America and nobody likes to lose all the time.

On the other hand, at least America is having a real go at playing soccer. But, they are at least two decades away from genuinely challenging for a significant trophy.

Yeah, that’s the reason…

cope

[Diane 500]

14 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Diane, I don't want to belabour this point, but it was a piece in  MFW, which is part of the media so I treat it as a piece of journalism, and refer accordingly. It is not a lack of politeness. I do it with all such, rather than pretending to a relationship that doesn't exist. So Gary Gowers, who also writes for MFW, is Gowers, and Paddy Davitt is Davitt. As it happens I now know, which I had no way of knowing before, that Gary Field is GMF.

Dare I say it might be a man/woman thing, I always call them by their first name or if not known to me so well, by their full name 😃

[Norfolk Dan 308]

15 hours ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

.....bang on Hall of Farmers.

Read that wrong! 

[CirclePoint 205]

7 hours ago, The Real Buh said:

Yeah, that’s the reason…

cope

Sounds like someone is jealous and can't cope with the truth, maybe? Get over it.

Your inability to accept the truth due to your antiquated view of the world is probably the reason you struggle to pull your head out and smell the fresh air.

Cope.

 

[The Real Buh 3,455]

11 minutes ago, CirclePoint said:

Sounds like someone is jealous and can't cope with the truth, maybe? Get over it.

Your inability to accept the truth due to your antiquated view of the world is probably the reason you struggle to pull your head out and smell the fresh air.

Cope.

 

Nobody knows who Tom Brady is outside of America and it doesn’t matter how many times you tug it in his honour my friend.

American sport doesn’t have global appeal because it’s boring.

from what I can see all sport in the USA is just another excuse to eat and get knockout drunk on literally 1 beer and talk about how Irish you are and how much you can drink because of your ancestors. So exciting.

biggest sporting event of the USA calendar is based around chicken wings and who’s singing at half time, oh, and the adverts of course. Nothing says sport like the new Star Wars trailer.

Edited May 30, 2022 by The Real Buh

[Grando 267]

5 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

biggest sporting event of the USA calendar is based around chicken wings and who’s singing at half time, oh, and the adverts of course. Nothing says sport like the new Star Wars trailer.

In fairness, eating chicken wings, half-time singers and a Star Wars trailer sounds better than watching two blokes run at each other while wearing inflatable beach balls around their midriffs. And I say that as someone who doesn't even eat chicken.

[king canary 7,653]

17 minutes ago, CirclePoint said:

Sounds like someone is jealous and can't cope with the truth, maybe? Get over it.

Your inability to accept the truth due to your antiquated view of the world is probably the reason you struggle to pull your head out and smell the fresh air.

Cope.

 

I don't think either points are true.

American sports don't suck (apart from baseball). However they also seem to be a product of a somewhat unique culture and don't have the same international appeal that some other sports have. 

[CirclePoint 205]

Just now, The Real Buh said:

Nobody knows who Tom Brady is outside of America and it doesn’t matter how many times you tug it in his honour my friend.

American sport doesn’t have global appeal because it’s boring.

from what I can see all sport in the USA is just another excuse to eat and get knockout drunk on literally 1 beer and talk about how Irish you are and how much you can drink because of your ancestors. So exciting.

biggest sporting event of the USA calendar is based around chicken wings and who’s singing at half time, oh, and the adverts of course. Nothing says sport like the new Star Wars trailer.

I'll tell you what's boring; your predictable come backs.

Nothing says sports like a wrap-around digital marketing board at playing level.

To call  American sports 'boring' simply because you can't appreciation the style of tactical and strategic nuance applied is telling.

If you're unable to appreciate the level of precision and coordination that is required by 11 offensive players to execute an NFL play, while at the same time preventing 1 ton of muscle, fat and attitude trying to bury a quarterback, then I would be stupid to continue discussing the topic with such kinesthetically ignorant person.

There's a good boy. Now go back to watching your '80s 'huff ball' with your shandy and crisps

[canarydan23 4,060]

16 minutes ago, king canary said:

I don't think either points are true.

American sports don't suck (apart from baseball). However they also seem to be a product of a somewhat unique culture and don't have the same international appeal that some other sports have. 

They've got broader international appear than you'd think. Well, at least the NFL does.

For instance, the Superbowl was watched by 4 million UK viewers, which given that it took place between 1am and 4am is mighty impressive.

For context, the FA Cup Final averaged nearly 6 million viewers (though did peak at 8 million) despite its more convenient time slot.

And whilst the NBA doesn't have the same TV appeal, Basketball is very popular for kids at grassroots and is criminally underfunded by our government, particularly given its ability to reduce crime and help young people in deprived areas. It is, in short, an absolute joke; between 2013 and 2017, Sport England contributed an amount to Basketball that was the equivalent of £9.25 for each participant. In the same period, Rugby Union received almost £60.00 per participate and cricket a whopping £70.72 per participant.

It appears that what Basketball needs to get popular is for posh, rich people to play it who probably could do without the funding anyway.

Edited May 30, 2022 by canarydan23

[CirclePoint 205]

14 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

They've got broader international appear than you'd think. Well, at least the NFL does.

For instance, the Superbowl was watched by 4 million UK viewers, which given that it took place between 1am and 4am is mighty impressive.

For context, the FA Cup Final averaged nearly 6 million viewers (though did peak at 8 million) despite its more convenient time slot.

And whilst the NBA doesn't have the same TV appeal, Basketball is very popular for kids at grassroots and is criminally underfunded by our government, particularly given its ability to reduce crime and help young people in deprived areas. It is, in short, an absolute joke; between 2013 and 2017, Sport England contributed an amount to Basketball that was the equivalent of £9.25 for each participant. In the same period, Rugby Union received almost £60.00 per participate and cricket a whopping £70.72 per participant.

It appears that what Basketball needs to get popular is for posh, rich people to play it who probably could do without the funding anyway.

Well said!

But, if the posh, rich people become involved, then the overall program would receive more funding.

[1902 1,167]

20 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

They've got broader international appear than you'd think. Well, at least the NFL does.

For instance, the Superbowl was watched by 4 million UK viewers, which given that it took place between 1am and 4am is mighty impressive.

For context, the FA Cup Final averaged nearly 6 million viewers (though did peak at 8 million) despite its more convenient time slot.

And whilst the NBA doesn't have the same TV appeal, Basketball is very popular for kids at grassroots and is criminally underfunded by our government, particularly given its ability to reduce crime and help young people in deprived areas. It is, in short, an absolute joke; between 2013 and 2017, Sport England contributed an amount to Basketball that was the equivalent of £9.25 for each participant. In the same period, Rugby Union received almost £60.00 per participate and cricket a whopping £70.72 per participant.

It appears that what Basketball needs to get popular is for posh, rich people to play it who probably could do without the funding anyway.

The issue with the biggest event in a calendar like the Superbowl is that it distorts figures. Sure the Superbowl is fairly widely watched. I watched it and I despise American Football, as did a number of other friends because we have one American mate who invited us to a party. I know three or four other friends who did the same. If you were going to take the number of hours of American football we all collectively watch per year, it wouldn't compare to any major UK sport. Again, it's anecdotal evidence but it is something to consider.

Edited May 30, 2022 by 1902

[Cowboy 197]

23 minutes ago, CirclePoint said:

I'll tell you what's boring; your predictable come backs.

Nothing says sports like a wrap-around digital marketing board at playing level.

To call  American sports 'boring' simply because you can't appreciation the style of tactical and strategic nuance applied is telling.

If you're unable to appreciate the level of precision and coordination that is required by 11 offensive players to execute an NFL play, while at the same time preventing 1 ton of muscle, fat and attitude trying to bury a quarterback, then I would be stupid to continue discussing the topic with such kinesthetically ignorant person.

There's a good boy. Now go back to watching your '80s 'huff ball' with your shandy and crisps

He's right though, it is boring.

[1902 1,167]

22 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

They've got broader international appear than you'd think. Well, at least the NFL does.

For instance, the Superbowl was watched by 4 million UK viewers, which given that it took place between 1am and 4am is mighty impressive.

For context, the FA Cup Final averaged nearly 6 million viewers (though did peak at 8 million) despite its more convenient time slot.

And whilst the NBA doesn't have the same TV appeal, Basketball is very popular for kids at grassroots and is criminally underfunded by our government, particularly given its ability to reduce crime and help young people in deprived areas. It is, in short, an absolute joke; between 2013 and 2017, Sport England contributed an amount to Basketball that was the equivalent of £9.25 for each participant. In the same period, Rugby Union received almost £60.00 per participate and cricket a whopping £70.72 per participant.

It appears that what Basketball needs to get popular is for posh, rich people to play it who probably could do without the funding anyway.

Interesting. Again, you couldn't pay me to watch basketball, it bores me senseless. However I can't understand why a game that is so clearly well suited to playing in small spaces with inexpensive facilities is recieving less than Rugby. As a piece of public policy that looks pretty poor.

[Naturalcynic 643]

43 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

It appears that what Basketball needs to get popular is for posh, rich people to play it who probably could do without the funding anyway.

You’re letting your class-war ideology show through 😉. 

Edited May 30, 2022 by Naturalcynic

[canarydan23 4,060]

18 minutes ago, 1902 said:

Interesting. Again, you couldn't pay me to watch basketball, it bores me senseless. However I can't understand why a game that is so clearly well suited to playing in small spaces with inexpensive facilities is recieving less than Rugby. As a piece of public policy that looks pretty poor.

I get why people don't like Basketball, particularly with the NBA these days where they shoehorn in commercial breaks at an embarrassing rate and in shameless fashion. It's actually a sport that it's almost more entertaining the further down the sport you get. I'm biased because all my kids play it, but grassroots kids games are often more entertaining than elite level.

However, it's hugely popular among kids and like you say, massively accessible and cheap. It's a joke how little support it gets, particularly when an All Party Parliamentary Group reached a conclusion that there is "no more efficient sporting vehicle than basketball to improve outcomes for individuals and communities" and noted its success is addressing issues relating to education, inclusion, health, aspiration and gang culture".

Anyway, that's me off my pedestal, I'll stop dragging the topic down an unrelated tangent.

Edited May 30, 2022 by canarydan23

[Naturalcynic 643]

16 minutes ago, 1902 said:

Interesting. Again, you couldn't pay me to watch basketball, it bores me senseless. However I can't understand why a game that is so clearly well suited to playing in small spaces with inexpensive facilities is recieving less than Rugby. As a piece of public policy that looks pretty poor.

I think the reason why many in this country don’t like basketball is because it’s all about instant gratification and constant scoring, whereas we’re used to sports that require a bit of a longer attention span.