EXCLUSIVE: US tycoons in Norwich City investment talks

[Dr Greenthumb 749]

6 minutes ago, Badger said:

Yes, I think that they could do well if they are sensibly managed with no stupid rush for quick promotion. In times eir natural advantages should see them as an established EPL team.

Going to take some building that is, they didn’t set the world alight in league one last season, but fair play, they made it up

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

Does anyone know what percentage of the club's shares Michael Foulger holds? Perhaps they'll buy out his shares and some of D&M's too. I think I'm right in saying that if a shareholder accumulates 30% of the club's shares, they are obliged to make a formal offer for the remaining shares? Could be wrong, I'm not very knowledgeable around such matters.

[Badger 2,405]

6 minutes ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

Going to take some building that is, they didn’t set the world alight in league one last season, but fair play, they made it up

Yes but year in, year out they will be able to outspend all other clubs in the EPL except those with parachute payments, who will have very large wage commitments. They should be able to build a good squad in time.

It will be even easier if the 70% rule goes through and parachute payments may even be adjusted (which apparently is also under discussion, but I suspect may be a less likely reform). 

In essence they should soon have a revenue that is twice that of most championship clubs.

[TIL 1010 4,738]

3 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Does anyone know what percentage of the club's shares Michael Foulger holds? Perhaps they'll buy out his shares and some of D&M's too. I think I'm right in saying that if a shareholder accumulates 30% of the club's shares, they are obliged to make a formal offer for the remaining shares? Could be wrong, I'm not very knowledgeable around such matters.

The Foulger family own circa 98,000 of the issued 617,000 shares.

[Badger 2,405]

7 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Does anyone know what percentage of the club's shares Michael Foulger holds? Perhaps they'll buy out his shares and some of D&M's too. I think I'm right in saying that if a shareholder accumulates 30% of the club's shares, they are obliged to make a formal offer for the remaining shares? Could be wrong, I'm not very knowledgeable around such matters.

13%. But if they just buy existing shares it won't raise any money for City - just for Foulger!

It's something that has consistent over-excited fans on this forum - every time they see x,y,z invests £50 million in a club they think that the money has gone to the club, but when the details come out, it is often just a purchase of shares. It would have to be new equity, a director's loan or preference shares (are any available to be issued?)

https://www.canaries.co.uk/company-details

Edited May 29, 2022 by Badger
Added link

[Surfer 1,547]

2 hours ago, Badger said:

True - but the upside and potential is so much bigger at Sunderland - a ground with c50,000 capacity means the revenue potential is much bigger

See my comments about potential to turn Carrow Road and surrounding land into a multi-team sports park. Revenue in the EPL is mainly about TV money, any attendance gap can be closed with turning your site into a multi-stream revenue generator via multiple teams, multi-use venues and restaurants. A strategy that only works if you have an economically thriving city to support it - Norwich does and Sunderland doesn't. 

[FenwayFrank 2,459]

2 minutes ago, Surfer said:

See my comments about potential to turn Carrow Road and surrounding land into a multi-team sports park. Revenue in the EPL is mainly about TV money, any attendance gap can be closed with turning your site into a multi-stream revenue generator via multiple teams, multi-use venues and restaurants. A strategy that only works if you have an economically thriving city to support it - Norwich does and Sunderland doesn't. 

I can’t imagine it’s a good time to be opening new restaurants for a start if this multi use venue is going to generate money. What sports do you suggest that people are going to get behind or use ? 

[Dr Greenthumb 749]

26 minutes ago, Badger said:

Yes but year in, year out they will be able to outspend all other clubs in the EPL except those with parachute payments, who will have very large wage commitments. They should be able to build a good squad in time.

It will be even easier if the 70% rule goes through and parachute payments may even be adjusted (which apparently is also under discussion, but I suspect may be a less likely reform). 

In essence they should soon have a revenue that is twice that of most championship clubs.

If they don’t get relegated straight away 

[Badger 2,405]

3 minutes ago, Surfer said:

See my comments about potential to turn Carrow Road and surrounding land into a multi-team sports park. Revenue in the EPL is mainly about TV money, any attendance gap can be closed with turning your site into a multi-stream revenue generator via multiple teams, multi-use venues and restaurants. A strategy that only works if you have an economically thriving city to support it - Norwich does and Sunderland doesn't. 

Yes, I agreed with your point about using the ground as a source of revenue and commented that to some extent they were already doing this in the South stand - obviously I recognise that you envisage something on a grander scale.

I'm not sure how a multi-team sports park would work in Norwich though - are there any other teams big enough to make it pay? 

Re whether or not a City is thriving or not, it obviously helps if it is, but the key thing is the total number of affluent people. I suspect that there are as many in Tyneside as there are in Norwich, because it is more populated area, although GDP per capita overall will certainly be lower. I couldn't find any (free) data on this to support this assertion though.

[Diane 500]

50 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Any official statement the club issue on matters is put on the club website and there is nothing there. This ' quote ' is from an ITV article and should be treated with a degree of caution as only a fool would say such a thing in the middle of what are surely protracted and delicate let alone confidential talks surrounding the future of our club.

@Diane

You beat me to it, nothing on the ncfc website or social media accounts, so was probably something said on the phone when being asked for a comment on the Archant story by an Anglia researcher. Whatever the situation be it, takeover or just an investment or just an enquiry, they are hardly likely to spill the beans until its done and dusted.

This is a really interesting article by @GMF and worth a read  https://norwichcity.myfootballwriter.com/2022/05/29/from-milwaukee-to-carrow-road-happy-days-ahead-maybe/

Edited May 29, 2022 by Diane

[Badger 2,405]

2 minutes ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

If they don’t get relegated straight away 

Of course, it's always a possibility but they have extra TV money to spend + can expect better attendances, so they should have more money than most teams in the championship for team strengthening, although I take on board your point that they need to!

[Badger 2,405]

3 minutes ago, Diane said:

You beat me to it, nothing on the ncfc website or social media accounts, so was probably something said on the phone when being asked for a comment on the Archant story by an Anglia researcher. Whatever the situation be it, takeover or just an investment or just an enquiry, they are hardly likely to spill the beans until its done and dusted.

This is a really interesting article by @GMF and worth a read  https://norwichcity.myfootballwriter.com/2022/05/29/from-milwaukee-to-carrow-road-happy-days-ahead-maybe/

Probably true - we are feeding off scraps, but the article does refer to "the club." It's a "bit naughty" to refer to "the club" if it was just someone at the end of a phone and the fact that they tried to "play it down" added a degree of authenticity ("early stages of seeking"). As you say they would want to keep it pretty tight, so I'm surprised that the Canaries "stressed" that D + M would remain as biggest shareholders - why add this?

We are all used to newspapers making up stories but TV is usually a bit more circumspect. Who knows - it's a waste of time speculating really but it's also hard to stop!😀

"The club, which was relegated from the Premier League in the season that finished last week, confirmed it was in the early stages of seeking outside investment."

[Monty13 2,231]

1 hour ago, TIL 1010 said:

Any official statement the club issue on matters is put on the club website and there is nothing there. This ' quote ' is from an ITV article and should be treated with a degree of caution as only a fool would say such a thing in the middle of what are surely protracted and delicate let alone confidential talks surrounding the future of our club.

@Diane

So at least one fool at the club then Til?

[GenerationA47 751]

3 hours ago, Mello Yello said:

Is Delia's restaurant to be renamed 'Brewer's Bistro?'......

Only insofar as club cabbage tickets are to be restyled  ‘Brewers’ Fares’

[Mello Yello 2,289]

9 minutes ago, GenerationA47 said:

Only insofar as club cabbage tickets are to be restyled  ‘Brewers’ Fares’

Lettuce hope the investment talks come to fruition......

[Yobocop 1,098]

47 minutes ago, GenerationA47 said:

Only insofar as club cabbage tickets are to be restyled  ‘Brewers’ Fares’

Very good 

[PurpleCanary 5,557]

54 minutes ago, Badger said:

Probably true - we are feeding off scraps, but the article does refer to "the club." It's a "bit naughty" to refer to "the club" if it was just someone at the end of a phone and the fact that they tried to "play it down" added a degree of authenticity ("early stages of seeking"). As you say they would want to keep it pretty tight, so I'm surprised that the Canaries "stressed" that D + M would remain as biggest shareholders - why add this?

We are all used to newspapers making up stories but TV is usually a bit more circumspect. Who knows - it's a waste of time speculating really but it's also hard to stop!😀

"The club, which was relegated from the Premier League in the season that finished last week, confirmed it was in the early stages of seeking outside investment."

ITV could have got it wrong but it is a reputable news organisation, and what will happen to S&J is an obvious question to ask. There may have been a misunderstanding somewhere but it won't have made the comment up.

As to the Field piece in MFW, it is a fair summary of some of the possibilities, given the lack of hard information. He raises one point, which i have mentioned in the past, talking about takeovers generally, but not in relation to this possible deal, which is that if a new owner gets to 90 per cent of the shares they have to buy the rest.

And Field says this would open up the possibility of taking the company back to being private, having become a public limited company around 2000. There is an argument that private companies can be less open and less subject to scrutiny, not least since there would be no minority shareholders, and I believe the Takeover Code would no longer apply. Just to be clear, in this case going private doesn't mean what it often does, which is delisting from a stock market.

[TIL 1010 4,738]

11 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

ITV could have got it wrong but it is a reputable news organisation, and what will happen to S&J is an obvious question to ask. There may have been a misunderstanding somewhere but it won't have made the comment up.

As to the Field piece in MFW, it is a fair summary of some of the possibilities, given the lack of hard information. He raises one point, which i have mentioned in the past, talking about takeovers generally, but not in relation to this possible deal, which is that if a new owner gets to 90 per cent of the shares they have to buy the rest.

And Field says this would open up the possibility of taking the company back to being private, having become a public limited company around 2000. There is an argument that private companies can be less open and less subject to scrutiny, not least since there would be no minority shareholders, and I believe the Takeover Code would no longer apply. Just to be clear, in this case going private doesn't mean what it often does, which is delisting from a stock market.

Field is Gary Field the Trust treasurer who is an accountant.

[TIL 1010 4,738]

1 hour ago, Monty13 said:

So at least one fool at the club then Til?

Well when and only then if it is in an official media release from the club will i regard it as FACT.

[PurpleCanary 5,557]

5 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Field is Gary Field the Trust treasurer who is an accountant.

I know. I am a member of the Canaries Trust.

[Monty13 2,231]

Just now, TIL 1010 said:

Well when and only then if it is in an official media release from the club will i regard it as FACT.

A comment from the club is official, it’s not a statement but it’s still an official comment. That’s what happens when journalists reach out for comment.

So either ITV are stretching the truth, it is the truth or someone at Carrow screwed up.

[cornish sam 951]

The foulger shares potentially being available does open up another angle. Perhaps Delia and Winnie are going to hoover up his shares at a discount price and the new investors big the newly issued shares for a higher price. That way they could retain majority control and still release enough shares for significant cash injection...

[TIL 1010 4,738]

1 minute ago, PurpleCanary said:

I know. I am a member of the Canaries Trust.

In that case i would think calling him Gary would be more appropriate or even GMF.

[TIL 1010 4,738]

3 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

A comment from the club is official, it’s not a statement but it’s still an official comment. That’s what happens when journalists reach out for comment.

So either ITV are stretching the truth, it is the truth or someone at Carrow screwed up.

I will at this stage go with one or three but you obviously take option two ?

[Monty13 2,231]

5 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

I will at this stage go with one or three but you obviously take option two ?

Oh no, I’m quite happy to accept it may be 3. I find 1 unlikely.

[GMF 736]

47 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

In that case i would think calling him Gary would be more appropriate or even GMF.

I was beginning to think that I was back at school, being referenced by just my surname! 🤣🤣🤣

[essex canary 495]

54 minutes ago, cornish sam said:

The foulger shares potentially being available does open up another angle. Perhaps Delia and Winnie are going to hoover up his shares at a discount price and the new investors big the newly issued shares for a higher price. That way they could retain majority control and still release enough shares for significant cash injection...

If the Club is worth £150 million the share price would be £243. How much of a discount would they be able to claim on  Foulgers shares? Whilst of course their holdings are much less I suspect many other minority shareholders would be prepared to trade for substantially less than £243 per share given that very few have bought at a price greater than just over 10% of that. 

[GMF 736]

1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

As to the Field piece in MFW, it is a fair summary of some of the possibilities, given the lack of hard information. He raises one point, which i have mentioned in the past, talking about takeovers generally, but not in relation to this possible deal, which is that if a new owner gets to 90 per cent of the shares they have to buy the rest.

And Field says this would open up the possibility of taking the company back to being private, having become a public limited company around 2000. There is an argument that private companies can be less open and less subject to scrutiny, not least since there would be no minority shareholders, and I believe the Takeover Code would no longer apply. Just to be clear, in this case going private doesn't mean what it often does, which is delisting from a stock market.

The club’s shares, like those of the vast majority of other football clubs, have never been traded on an authorised stock market. That obviously doesn’t mean that they can’t be traded, by agreement between individuals and there seems to be a growing trend, especially among US investors, to take clubs private. That’s how I see this going if the deal proceeds. 

[essex canary 495]

4 minutes ago, GMF said:

The club’s shares, like those of the vast majority of other football clubs, have never been traded on an authorised stock market. That obviously doesn’t mean that they can’t be traded, by agreement between individuals and there seems to be a growing trend, especially among US investors, to take clubs private. That’s how I see this going if the deal proceeds. 

Would Chapter 8 of the Government's Fan Led Review concerning a Golden Supporters Share offer any comfort in this regard.

[nutty nigel 7,530]

30 minutes ago, GMF said:

I was beginning to think that I was back at school, being referenced by just my surname! 🤣🤣🤣

 Nobody even mentioned the most important thing which is obviously that you are a PUP🙃