The empty seats

[duke63 739]

Good article on the front page by Chris Lakey.

However, its not just NCFC who are seeing the issue. The TV games have shown a number of clubs with obvious numbers of empty seats including Villa, Southampton even ManUre etc. so it would appear to be a problem that is becoming more prevalent.

I get the feeling that maybe people are saying the cost of football is becoming too much for the entertainment provided.

 

 

[Capt. Pants 5,008]

Yeah add in significant cost in living and people are having to make choices. The cost of casual tickets is becoming quite ridiculous imo 

I can see the time when the elite leagues move to a pay per view TV model.

[lake district canary 4,830]

Could well be, I think more and more people are becoming disillusioned with the Premier League circus - VAR ia a big factor in that imo. There is a tipping point at which people switch off from things if they are not getting what they expect - and that doesn't just mean if their teams are doing badly - people want entertainment and there is a huge problem with not being able to celebrate a goal fully, knowing that VAR is lurking to disallow it if it possibly can.

Mind you, of the clubs you mention, Villa haven't been great under Gerrard, Southampton have struggled and Manure have been rubbish most of the season, yes finishing quite high, but way below the standard they ought to be at.....

[Ken Hairy 4,272]

Won't be an issue on Sunday, they'll be full of spurs fans 👍

[cambridgeshire canary 7,798]

[Mello Yello 2,572]

Where will we be in next season's Championship ST price table?......

[stratton canary 164]

19 minutes ago, Mello Yello said:

Where will we be in next season's Championship ST price table?......

Probably top! 

[WD40 726]

I’d like to see a list where that’s adjusted for stadium capacity. What is the revenue each club makes from season tickets it sells. I dare say we’d be down the bottom (above Brentford though). Not saying our prices aren’t a disgrace for the entertainment value offered, but if we had more capacity we could bring the price down. 

[The Great Mass Debater 1,202]

8 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

 

That Man City price is huge value for money. And West Ham - in the London economy as well. 

I think a Leeds season ticket cost more 20 years ago than that

Norwich fans certainly not getting value for money

[shefcanary 2,955]

2 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

 

That Man City price is huge value for money. And West Ham - in the London economy as well. 

I think a Leeds season ticket cost more 20 years ago than that

Norwich fans certainly not getting value for money

Man City struggle to fill their stadium - there are always empty banks of seats.  This highlights that they don't yet seem to have reached a natural self-sustaining season ticket sales level for the size of the stadium they have, hence why the cost is so low as they try to build this.  I've no doubt once they feel they have hit that sweet spot, the price will start to increase rapidly.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,202]

3 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

Man City struggle to fill their stadium - there are always empty banks of seats.  This highlights that they don't yet seem to have reached a natural self-sustaining season ticket sales level for the size of the stadium they have, hence why the cost is so low as they try to build this.  I've no doubt once they feel they have hit that sweet spot, the price will start to increase rapidly.

Considering the level of football they consistently produce, its hard to see why they arent filling the stadium

[Branston Pickle 4,150]

9 hours ago, duke63 said:

Good article on the front page by Chris Lakey.

However, its not just NCFC who are seeing the issue. The TV games have shown a number of clubs with obvious numbers of empty seats including Villa, Southampton even ManUre etc. so it would appear to be a problem that is becoming more prevalent.

I get the feeling that maybe people are saying the cost of football is becoming too much for the entertainment provided.

 

 

I thought it was a bit of a tedious article tbh, taking an awful lot of space to say not a lot.  The simple fact is that the official attendance is going to be tickets sold and can only be so, the club can’t second guess who is or isn’t going to turn up. Given our form it’s not surprising that people who can’t come might not find takers for their tickets. 

There have been several games this season with a fair few gaps in the stands - for me Arsenal on Boxing Day was by far the biggest, due to covid concerns, but that didn’t quite fit the narrative so wasn’t mentioned.

One other consideration was that I think WHU was £48 for a casual ticket - way too high for a ‘nothing’ game, so returned tickets wouldn’t have been sold either.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Branston Pickle

[shefcanary 2,955]

13 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Considering the level of football they consistently produce, its hard to see why they arent filling the stadium

I think a lot of their fans would prefer if they lost more than they won! All this success sits uneasily with them. 😉

 

[Pyro Pete 2,353]

I think it was unwise for the club to put up season ticket prices. That table of club prices, with us 8th highest, just goes to show how overinflated prices were when they were set at their current levels.

We may discover on Sunday at full time that people expect more for their money.

[Greavsy 2,645]

15 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

the club can’t second guess who is or isn’t going to turn up.

but they do count every one who attends. 

So official attendance is seats sold- has to be, as per regulations. But they could always declare the number of people actually there, unless they wish to hid a low take up rate. There used to be a %age quoted after the attendance figure which has been debated previously on here what that actually meant. 

[Mello Yello 2,572]

Covid?....Holidays?.....Weather?...Price o' pork bellies?....Blah, blah an' thrice blah and they are a regularly wheeled out multitude of excuses of which are not the real reasons for our empty seats....

It's because the majority of this season, we've been remarkably sh!t....and people are voting with their non-attendance....

If the trend continues next season and home crowds diminish because we unfortunately don't hit the ground running or show poor form?....

You watch our NCFC Board sit up and panic and do something about it....It's the only thing that will really concern them....

[Branston Pickle 4,150]

14 minutes ago, Greavsy said:

but they do count every one who attends. 

So official attendance is seats sold- has to be, as per regulations. But they could always declare the number of people actually there, unless they wish to hid a low take up rate. There used to be a %age quoted after the attendance figure which has been debated previously on here what that actually meant. 

Of course they can, and they did indeed publish that data at one point, but it confused some and is a bit meaningless  - it just led to arguments about what it meant and why, so they stopped.  

There’s any number of reasons why people can’t turn up.  I sadly can’t go and endure the game on Sunday and a relative is having my ticket, but I’d have still gone if I could (and it’s 3 hrs travel each way).  Imo by far the lowest actual attendance this season was Arsenal, due to the covid/Christmas thing.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Branston Pickle

[City 2nd 193]

9 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Could well be, I think more and more people are becoming disillusioned with the Premier League circus - VAR ia a big factor in that imo. There is a tipping point at which people switch off from things if they are not getting what they expect - and that doesn't just mean if their teams are doing badly - people want entertainment and there is a huge problem with not being able to celebrate a goal fully, knowing that VAR is lurking to disallow it if it possibly can.

Mind you, of the clubs you mention, Villa haven't been great under Gerrard, Southampton have struggled and Manure have been rubbish most of the season, yes finishing quite high, but way below the standard they ought to be at.....

For once I have to agree with you Lakey. VAR has killed the game stone dead. As an ex referee I advocate fully that a refs decisions must be his decision and his alone, not the subject of VAR, ever. Yes, mistakes will be made, but do they not even out over a season? 

[Branston Pickle 4,150]

10 minutes ago, City 2nd said:

For once I have to agree with you Lakey. VAR has killed the game stone dead. As an ex referee I advocate fully that a refs decisions must be his decision and his alone, not the subject of VAR, ever. Yes, mistakes will be made, but do they not even out over a season? 

It’s a tricky one - weighing up the ‘correctness’ of the decision vs the flow/spectacle of the game itself.  For years people claimed they just wanted the right decisions made, but var has led to totally different issues in interpretation and it does feel the game has changed. 

The odd thing is that a var-less game v West Ham the other week would have been 1-3, it ended 0-4.  It may have made ‘correct’ decisions, but the game as a spectacle was ruined by our disallowed goal.  I suppose it depends what you want.

The notion that errors even themselves out over a season is a bit daft. All games and incidents are completely independent of one another.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Branston Pickle

[FCC 94]

Southampton couldn’t get a kick against Liverpool reserves. Contrary to the PR, the Premier is not a competitive league and it will be even less so once Newcastle get going.  It is predictable and boring. 

[Mello Yello 2,572]

Not as boring as Formula One....

[Midlands Yellow 4,682]

6 minutes ago, FCC said:

Southampton couldn’t get a kick against Liverpool reserves. Contrary to the PR, the Premier is not a competitive league and it will be even less so once Newcastle get going.  It is predictable and boring. 

 Brentford fans nod their heads in agreement. 

[Commonsense 802]

13 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Any chance you tell people what this shows. Most clubs have widely varying season ticket prices depending on the area of the ground. Are these the top price season tickets or. as I suspect the lowest price ones? What proportion of each ground do they cover?

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,223]

1 hour ago, Commonsense said:

Any chance you tell people what this shows. Most clubs have widely varying season ticket prices depending on the area of the ground. Are these the top price season tickets or. as I suspect the lowest price ones? What proportion of each ground do they cover?

This. The table is meaningless. Using the Manchester City example, next season the cost of an adult ticket in the Colin Bell Stand (aka as The Bell End) ranges from £445 to £980, depending on what level you sit, East Stand £445 to £980, South Stand £445 to £695 and The Family Stand (Adult has to be accompanied by an U16) so 1 Adult and 1 Child £545 to £755. Premium Seats are £1290 to £1450............

[chicken 3,086]

I'm not entirely sure how accurate this source is but it does seem to marry with official numbers.
https://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/norwich-city/attendances

The fluctuation in numbers seems to have been well and truly there long before relegation was confirmed. We've only broken 27k three times this season. Breaking 26,900 four times outside of those 27ks. So there have been a similar number of empty seats at other games before now. Though admittedly the average looks to be around 26,600. 

[CirclePoint 208]

5 hours ago, City 2nd said:

For once I have to agree with you Lakey. VAR has killed the game stone dead. As an ex referee I advocate fully that a refs decisions must be his decision and his alone, not the subject of VAR, ever. Yes, mistakes will be made, but do they not even out over a season? 

Agreed. 

I’m sure it’s been mentioned here before, but I like to see the idea used in American football where the head coach (manager) is allowed to challenge the referee’s decision at most three times in a standard game. If the challenge holds, the decision on the field is over-turned. If the challenge fails, the team loses a time out, which are valuable tactical elements in an NFL game. Maybe a manager would lose a substitution if the challenge fails?

I would like to see VAR relegated to what it was designed to be, an ASSISTANT and in it’s place a system that gives the power back to the referees, with the managers able to challenge the referee’s decision.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,328]

16 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

Yeah add in significant cost in living and people are having to make choices. The cost of casual tickets is becoming quite ridiculous imo 

I can see the time when the elite leagues move to a pay per view TV model.

And add the massive number of footballers who have turned out to be massive pr!cks this season, a la Zouma etc. 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,328]

58 minutes ago, chicken said:

I'm not entirely sure how accurate this source is but it does seem to marry with official numbers.
https://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/norwich-city/attendances

The fluctuation in numbers seems to have been well and truly there long before relegation was confirmed. We've only broken 27k three times this season. Breaking 26,900 four times outside of those 27ks. So there have been a similar number of empty seats at other games before now. Though admittedly the average looks to be around 26,600. 

I believe that is tickets sold though.

So if 1000 season ticket holders decide they don't want to go, they don't take 1000 off the gate.... attendances have become somewhat misleading because of that.

[hertfordyellow 462]

16 hours ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

 

That Man City price is huge value for money. And West Ham - in the London economy as well. 

I think a Leeds season ticket cost more 20 years ago than that

Norwich fans certainly not getting value for money

Have you been to a game at West Ham recently? There are quite a few seats very far from the pitch. The atmosphere is also non existent.

[duke63 739]

14 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

 Brentford fans nod their heads in agreement. 

But the chances are very high that they will be next season's Sheff Utd or Leeds.

Momentum carried over from the previous Championship high is vital in getting points on the board early and keeping that confidence.

Whilst its not the main reason we have struggled, the fixtures given to us early on have been very cruel the last two EPL seasons.