Since Webber Arrived....

[Move Klose 303]

We've made 49 permanent/loan signings for the 1st team.

How many of those would you say have been excellent/good signings etc.

Krul, Hanley, Skipp, Buendia, Pukki

Don't get me wrong we've made some signings who have basically done what they were signed for and did well in a good side, Zimmermann, Stieperman, Hernandez etc.

[FenwayFrank 2,467]

The forum really needed another Webber bashing thread

[cambridgeshire canary 6,792]

1 minute ago, FenwayFrank said:

The forum really needed another Webber bashing thread

I can make one if you want

[FenwayFrank 2,467]

Just now, cambridgeshire canary said:

I can make one if you want

Go on 😁

[Move Klose 303]

3 minutes ago, FenwayFrank said:

The forum really needed another Webber bashing thread

I'm asking about our players recruitment that's been made over the last 5 seasons as alot of us seem to believe that's the biggest problem this season.

[KeiranShikari 1,431]

Vrancic - very good

Watkins - We made a profit

Zimmermann - Good

Husband - poor

Franke - poor

Trybull - decent

Stiepermann - Icon

Raggett - Not sure I saw him play

Hanley - Decent

McLean - Decent

Hernandez - Decent

Gunn - Decent

Reed - Good

Edwards - Poor

Leitner - Decent.......then poor obviously

 

Buendia - Superb

Marshall - Poor

Pukki - Superb

Krul - Good

Heise - ????

Passlack - ????

Rhodes - Decent

 

Drmic - Poor

Byram - Good player, hopefully a good signing in the end.

Rupp - Okay

Roberts - Bad

Fahrmann - ???

Amadou - poor

Duda - poor

 

Sorensen - Okay

Plachta - Poor (at the moment)

Mumba - Decent

Dowell - Okay

Hugil - Okay

Skipp - Superb

Quintilla - Okay

Gibson - Decent

Giannoulis - Decent

 

Rashica - Good

Gunn - Okay

Lees-Melou - Okay

Sargent - Okay

Tzolis - ?????

Gilmour - Poor

Williams - Okay

Normann -  Okay

Kabak - Poor??

 

Lots of them became better players in seasons 2 and 3. Possibly important that happens with this year's buys.

Premier League signings obviously the problem.

Edited March 13, 2022 by KeiranShikari

[Ulfotto 642]

The big mistake was the first Farke season in the premiership. That was awful in terms of recruitment. The decisions made that season to basically take the money and see the season as a free hit although I get the reasons we did it have basically locked in our trajectory in the last two years. 

That was the season we needed to throw 60 million at it. Yes we could still have gone down and yes the following season the championship may have been messy but we had the assets to sell to get back to self sustaining.

[TheGunnShow 5,993]

Focusing only on the recruitment side is somewhat minimising Webber's impact on the club, not to mention not providing a full picture of what he's meant to do. He's helped turn around a club in a parlous financial state, and in Farke brought in a manager who gave us some wonderful entertainment after a stodgy first season.

We've cleared a heck of a lot of debt, upgraded our training facilities greatly, and had a dramatic - albeit annoying in the Premier League - run of seasons. Not to mention maintained a decent financial position despite a prolonged pandemic. Furthermore, we did this from a base that would indicate we were basically makeweights in the Championship, and indeed no doubt a not completely insignificant number of us thought we could have been at the wrong end of the Championship and looking at the trapdoor to League One. Off the pitch, the club looks in a much more resilient position compared to when he started.

[BarclayWazza 91]

5 minutes ago, Ulfotto said:

The big mistake was the first Farke season in the premiership. That was awful in terms of recruitment. The decisions made that season to basically take the money and see the season as a free hit although I get the reasons we did it have basically locked in our trajectory in the last two years. 

That was the season we needed to throw 60 million at it. Yes we could still have gone down and yes the following season the championship may have been messy but we had the assets to sell to get back to self sustaining.

100% this. I said at the start of that season that we have an incredible opportunity with the crop of young players that we had to really build a side and that we needed an experienced CB to bring together Aarons, Godfrey and Lewis, a decent DCM and backup striker. 50-60m worth and we've got the makings of a mid table PL side. Instead we spent £750k on Byram and a bit on youth prospects.

Ever since I've said the necessity of the self funding model due to the owners is what's holding us back as a club. Best opportunity we've had in years to establish ourselves in the PL and its f****d because Delia doesn't want to give up her plaything. Disgraceful imo.

[(Hoola)Han Solo 324]

Webber was brought in to take the football transfer responsibilities from the manager, after the debacle of Naismith etc under Alex Neil. The trouble is, our recruitment in the top flight has still been atrocious, but of course with our financial restrictions we always have our hands tied behind our backs . Also we are now very risk adverse. Under this financial model we will never establish ourselves as a PL team, or even be competitive in it, unless we get it absolutely correct in the transfer market or are very lucky.

[Jersey Canary 143]

1 hour ago, KeiranShikari said:

Vrancic - very good

Watkins - We made a profit

Zimmermann - Good

Husband - poor

Franke - poor

Trybull - decent

Stiepermann - Icon

Raggett - Not sure I saw him play

Hanley - Decent

McLean - Poor

Hernandez - Decent

Gunn - Decent

Reed - Average

Edwards - Poor

Leitner - Decent.......then poor obviously

 

Buendia - Superb

Marshall - Poor

Pukki - Superb

Krul - Very Good

Heise - Poor

Passlack - Poor

Rhodes - Decent

 

Drmic - Poor

Byram - Good player, hopefully a good signing in the end.

Rupp - Average

Roberts - Bad

Fahrmann - Poor

Amadou - poor

Duda - poor

 

Sorensen - Good

Plachta - Poor (at the moment)

Mumba - Decent

Dowell - Average

Hugil - Poor

Skipp - Superb

Quintilla - Okay

Gibson - Decent

Giannoulis - Decent

 

Rashica - Good

Gunn - Okay

Lees-Melou - Okay

Sargent - Okay

Tzolis - Poor at present

Gilmour - Poor

Williams - Good

Normann -  Okay

Kabak - Poor

 

My views above:,_Kenny’s been awful, Sorensen has been good when he’s played. Reed was not good when he played for us but has done better for Fulham. 
Hugill is not good enough. But the rest I pretty much agree with. 

[Disco Dales Jockstrap 1,898]

The killer for me is that I actually think our first 11 this year is worse than last year.

Position	20/21	21/22
GK	Krul	Krul
RB	Arrons	Arrons
CB	Gibson	Gibson
CB	Hanley	Hanley
LB	Giannoulis	Williams
DM	Skipp	Normann
CM	McLean	McLean
CM	Rupp	Lee-Melou
RM	Buendia	Sargent
LM	Cantwell	Rashica
STK	Pukki	Pukki

Williams aside, I'm not seeing any other upgrades there.

DM and RM are now both weaker imo.

Rupp/Lee-Melou much of a muchness. Same with Cantwell/Rashica (although v different players).

OTBC 

[Monty13 2,247]

22 minutes ago, Disco Dales Jockstrap said:

The killer for me is that I actually think our first 11 this year is worse than last year.

Position	20/21	21/22
GK	Krul	Krul
RB	Arrons	Arrons
CB	Gibson	Gibson
CB	Hanley	Hanley
LB	Giannoulis	Williams
DM	Skipp	Normann
CM	McLean	McLean
CM	Rupp	Lee-Melou
RM	Buendia	Sargent
LM	Cantwell	Rashica
STK	Pukki	Pukki

Williams aside, I'm not seeing any other upgrades there.

DM and RM are now both weaker imo.

Rupp/Lee-Melou much of a muchness. Same with Cantwell/Rashica (although v different players).

OTBC 

I completely agree with this, it may be with the benefit of hindsight but I’m struggling to see how this years team is better than last years or the last PL season.

[KeiranShikari 1,431]

Stronger squad. Weaker team.

I think next season will be interesting as we no longer have that 1 player that can regularly beat teams on his own. I think we are more balanced and will hopefully add more in the summer.

[canarybubbles 1,939]

7 hours ago, Monty13 said:

I completely agree with this, it may be with the benefit of hindsight but I’m struggling to see how this years team is better than last years or the last PL season.

Buendia/Sargent. Brutal comparison.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,406]

I think the situation is even more pronounced when you take in the subs too. The squad two years ago had genuine options to change a game - like Mario and Stieperman and Tettey- Whereas now we have no real quality in depth 

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

8 hours ago, Monty13 said:

I completely agree with this, it may be with the benefit of hindsight but I’m struggling to see how this years team is better than last years or the last PL season.

Williams is better than Dimi, Rashica is better than Cantwell. Had no chance of replacing Skipp and Buendia, so I basically partly agree with the Rupp vs PLM change, except we have Rupp still. 
the difference is in the two irreplaceables, one of which couldn’t help us stay up last time in the EPL. 
 

im not saying our squad is better, I’m just saying it never would be and it’s not Webber, Farke or Dean Smith’s fault we have not enough money 

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

7 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

I think the situation is even more pronounced when you take in the subs too. The squad two years ago had genuine options to change a game - like Mario and Stieperman and Tettey- Whereas now we have no real quality in depth 

Bit of a stretch to suggest any of these three can change a game. In the championship possibly, but then we don’t know what this current squads ability to change a championship game could be. Rowe, Tzolis, Byram, Idah if fit would all be potentially more influential at that level than they are at this level 

[Worthy Nigelton 1,063]

2 hours ago, SwearyCanary said:

Williams is better than Dimi, Rashica is better than Cantwell. Had no chance of replacing Skipp and Buendia, so I basically partly agree with the Rupp vs PLM change, except we have Rupp still. 
the difference is in the two irreplaceables, one of which couldn’t help us stay up last time in the EPL. 
 

im not saying our squad is better, I’m just saying it never would be and it’s not Webber, Farke or Dean Smith’s fault we have not enough money 

I don't think Rashica is definitely better than Cantwell. It's pretty close with those two.

[canarydan23 4,060]

2 hours ago, SwearyCanary said:

Williams is better than Dimi, Rashica is better than Cantwell. Had no chance of replacing Skipp and Buendia, so I basically partly agree with the Rupp vs PLM change, except we have Rupp still. 
the difference is in the two irreplaceables, one of which couldn’t help us stay up last time in the EPL. 
 

im not saying our squad is better, I’m just saying it never would be and it’s not Webber, Farke or Dean Smith’s fault we have not enough money 

I know we're all a bit clouded by his pretty poor antics this season, but you cannot yet say that Rashica is better than Cantwell. Todd scored 6 Premier League goals in 37 games in his first season in the Premier League. Rashica has managed 1 in 22.

I suspect Rashica will go on to have a better career, as he is essentially carrying the attacking threat this time around whereas Cantwell benefited from defenders being more Buendia and Pukki focused, leaving him with opportunities he would not have got if he was the main man. However, it's a stretch to say Rashica 21/22 is an upgrade on Cantwell 19/20 or 20/21.

Regardless, last season's Championship-winning 11 beats this year's comfortably. And that is an absolutely shocking indictment on Stuart Webber. Has there ever been a best XI from a club promoted from the Championship that has gotten worse? Ever?

[Monty13 2,247]

4 hours ago, SwearyCanary said:

Williams is better than Dimi, Rashica is better than Cantwell. Had no chance of replacing Skipp and Buendia, so I basically partly agree with the Rupp vs PLM change, except we have Rupp still. 
the difference is in the two irreplaceables, one of which couldn’t help us stay up last time in the EPL. 
 

im not saying our squad is better, I’m just saying it never would be and it’s not Webber, Farke or Dean Smith’s fault we have not enough money 

I disagree, we didn’t even try and replace Skipp and Buendia with the signings we made.

Rupp v Lees-Melou is a good comparison of the issue, if he’s not noticeably better than what was the point? Nothing against him as a decent squad player.

Id argue the same for Gunn, if finances are so tight why spend so much on a backup keeper?

I don’t agree Rashica is better than the Cantwell of two years ago, we needed both to kick on and yet we managed to completely mismanage Cantwell.

I don’t agree that our squad never would be better personally, yes it’s difficult but decisions were made that reduced that opportunity. It’s also clearly not what Stuart Webber thought based on his comments.

[ridgeman 135]

Since Webber arrived there has been improvements in the training facilities but it  is not reflected on the pitch, the standard on the pitch has deteriorated. When can we expect to see improvements on the pitch to reflect the expenditure on training facilities.

[Move Klose 303]

14 hours ago, Jersey Canary said:

My views above:,_Kenny’s been awful, Sorensen has been good when he’s played. Reed was not good when he played for us but has done better for Fulham. 
Hugill is not good enough. But the rest I pretty much agree with. 

I thought Reed was OK when he was here, wouldn't say he was great at the time. Is now.

[Yella Army 57]

Since webber has arrived at this club we have improved IMMENSLY. From outstanding player recruitment, superb infrastructure improvements and brilliant performance on the football pitch. 

 

Anyone who thinks Webber is a problem as opposed to an outstanding sporting director needs to take themselves back 5yrs and even 10yrs!

[rock bus 854]

7 minutes ago, Yella Army said:

Since webber has arrived at this club we have improved IMMENSLY. From outstanding player recruitment, superb infrastructure improvements and brilliant performance on the football pitch. 

 

Anyone who thinks Webber is a problem as opposed to an outstanding sporting director needs to take themselves back 5yrs and even 10yrs!

Thanks for your contribution Stuart (or Zoe!)

Only 1/2 joking... Webber has done some brilliant things for the club and we are certainly far better off in many ways than we were before he arrived. However, he has really messed up with our signings this year and the consequences could be horrendous. A bit like Farke, he has been found wanting in moving us to the next level and his position should at least be at risk or we will never achieve our ambition to remain in the premier league for a sustained period.

[Ulfotto 642]

Is it wrong to bring up the COVID factor when we judge recruitment? To club ultimately trying to break even it has killed us. The club estimated a 30 million black hole. Whereas other club shrugged it off like it never happened. There is nothing more wrong with football than Chelsea and Man City breaking there transfer records after a season and half behind closed doors.
 

Just doing some basic maths on say hot drink sales. A hot drink costs 2.50 say 2.25 of that is profit. We sell 7500 hot drinks a match we make around 16000 a match from drinks times that by 35 odd games where we could do this you have a missing 600,000 profit. Throw alcohol, food, programs. It is the difference between say getting Ajer signing Normann for the start of the season etc…

I think it is something that is not mentioned much when the debate on ambition is talked about.

[essex canary 504]

12 hours ago, Yella Army said:

Since webber has arrived at this club we have improved IMMENSLY. From outstanding player recruitment, superb infrastructure improvements and brilliant performance on the football pitch. 

 

Anyone who thinks Webber is a problem as opposed to an outstanding sporting director needs to take themselves back 5yrs and even 10yrs!

Between 5 and 10 years ago there were many people who wouldn't have a word said against McNally. Strange how they have rewritten history. 

[Tetteys Jig 830]

21 hours ago, rock bus said:

Thanks for your contribution Stuart (or Zoe!)

Only 1/2 joking... Webber has done some brilliant things for the club and we are certainly far better off in many ways than we were before he arrived. However, he has really messed up with our signings this year and the consequences could be horrendous. A bit like Farke, he has been found wanting in moving us to the next level and his position should at least be at risk or we will never achieve our ambition to remain in the premier league for a sustained period.

I don’t think the consequences will be that horrendous tbh. A lot of those fees and wages will be tied in with the condition of survival hence why we struggled to get our top targets in the first place. Our top earner will be on £30k next year so hardly Andre Ayew £80k a week levels. The club is ultimately set up for the championship and will always have to be until someone invests and is prepared to gamble some money on us retaining premiership status. We’re never going to gamble our own money.

[Canarywary 110]

People keep repeating that Webber didn't try and replace Buendia.

a) the best player we've had in a generation can't be replaced just like that, get real. Getting Buendia at that price was like winning the lottery

b) we signed Rachica, who WAS his replacement surely? On paper looked he looked to have real potential - most people on here were really excited when we signed him

[Danke bitte 967]

Webber’s been great with rejuvenating the infrastructure. Not so much with Premier League signings

19/20 he got a free pass. But the lack of Skipp succession planning, whether that a purchased player, youth development or loan was mad. We don’t know the ins and outs but Gilmour or even Normann was never the answer. 

To lose Tettey as well, an experienced operator at this level without replacement was incredibly naive. 

The middle of the pitch has been our soft spot for seasons and this has never been addressed with a permanent replacement.

Additionally, Webber’s comments about previous regimes spending and somewhat over confidence in his own ability doesn’t seem look wise now and it’s left him with a bit of egg on his face. 

Last summer the club started the window stating “quality not quantity” and look how that ended. Too many mediocre players and no real style. 

We’re now in transition again, and I genuinely believe Smith will craft a strong side in his image but I do wonder if this all could have been avoided had less/right fit players been bought in way before?

Maybe Webber isn’t the Moneyball genius we all thought he was and it’s the on field 11 is where he’ll be judged by the Layman, and right now I hope Webber adopts a level of humility when we go down yet again under his (pun intended) stewardship.