Really seeing what Smith has brought to the party

[Jim Smith 2,339]

Ok we didn’t win but I just think we look a completely different proposition now. Even today with a depleted side the midfield worked as a unit, the team pressed when they needed to and sat at other times. Our work without the ball has improved 300% under this coaching set up and you can see we have coherent plans to counter different opponents. I even thought despite the score line we were quite impressive at Spurs.

Whether it will be enough (given we keep missing sitters) I don’t know but I don’t feel now that many games are going to be written off in the manner that the first few games were. 

 

[canarybubbles 1,941]

Yes. I was lukewarm about Dean Smith when he was appointed, except for being glad that he wasn't Lampard. But so far I have to say he has been excellent. As well as the stuff you mention - especially the work without the ball - there is the fact that he has now given almost every eligible player some game time, so he has found out a lot about the players on the pitch in an actual game rather than in training. Also he makes changes during a game rather than with five minutes left. Like you, I have my doubts that things will turn around quickly enough given our disastrous start, but we look competitive in every game now and Smith deserves great credit for that.

[Worthy Nigelton 1,063]

Yes but one win in five suggests not much has really changed and even that one win we were totally outplayed in the first half. I think it feels more positive but the players aren't good enough sadly and that was the same problem Farke had too.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Worthy Nigelton
More added

[lake district canary 4,545]

Smith and Shakespeare are a good double act I think. I'm still at the meh stage of thinking are we any better with them than with Farke and I think Farke's methods could have worked too, - looking at arsenal's match last night and they play a version of Farkeball - fannying around at the back, looking exceedingly dodgy, then turning that into a bretahtaking goal ten seconds later. 

Maybe we are on a good track - and to see Sorensen come on and show yet again that he is a really good player was excellent. So some positive signs, but we still just lost two matches.

[vlad666 203]

Yes, he’s doing well with what he has available. Hopefully a few additions in January will translate into more points. 

[(Hoola)Han Solo 324]

We may lack a cutting edge up front, but we finally look like an organised and competitive Premier League side. I’m convinced that if Dean Smith had been here all season and had had an input into this summer’s recruitment, we’d have a few more points on the board.

[Disco Dales Jockstrap 1,898]

3 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Smith and Shakespeare are a good double act I think. I'm still at the meh stage of thinking are we any better with them than with Farke and I think Farke's methods could have worked too, - looking at arsenal's match last night and they play a version of Farkeball - fannying around at the back, looking exceedingly dodgy, then turning that into a bretahtaking goal ten seconds later. 

Maybe we are on a good track - and to see Sorensen come on and show yet again that he is a really good player was excellent. So some positive signs, but we still just lost two matches.

As others have already alluded to, we look completely different off the ball than we did under Farke. So no, I disagree, I don't think Farke's methods would have somehow just worked as he'd already shown his inability to adapt in that regard. A great manager for us at Championship level but he came up short in the top tier.

OTBC

Edited December 12, 2021 by Disco Dales Jockstrap

[hogesar 9,743]

11 minutes ago, Disco Dales Jockstrap said:

As others have already alluded to, we look completely different off the ball that we did under Farke. So no, I disagree, I don't think Farke's methods would have somehow just worked as he'd already shown his inability to adapt in that regard. A great manager for us at Championship level but he came up short in the top tier.

OTBC

Unfortunately as much as I love Farke in both Premier League seasons we averaged conceding two goals a game under him.

We are now much harder to play against - suddenly all our fullbacks can defend (cant be a coincidence) and I cant say we are creating any less.

We are in a position when we play well we only need to score one or two to win. Under Farke we almost always needed 3 goals to win a game in the prem.

[yellowandgreen 34]

Totally agree with what lots of people have said. We look much more like a team that can compete at this level. Defending so much better all we need now is to start to take our chances.

[Mason 47 1,398]

PL is a league of fine margins. Sargent puts 5 yards more pace on his shot against Brighton, PLM nutmegs Dubravka and Pukki takes an extra touch against Wolves and we would probably be 13th by now.

We're a much more convincing side now, as said above DS deserves a lot of credit for that. We just absolutely desperately positively need to start taking chances.

[Disco Dales Jockstrap 1,898]

2 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Unfortunately as much as I love Farke in both Premier League seasons we averaged conceding two goals a game under him.

We are now much harder to play against - suddenly all our fullbacks can defend (cant be a coincidence) and I cant say we are creating any less.

We are in a position when we play well we only need to score one or two to win. Under Farke we almost always needed 3 goals to win a game in the prem.

100% agree Hoggy. We just need that cutting edge now, to take those good chances we are creating. 

OTBC

[Nuff Said 5,176]

Granted Farke had injury problems too, but I’m definitely in the camp that believes if Smith had been in charge from the beginning, we’d have at least 3 more points by now. If Normann and Rashica had been available for the recent games, possibly more than that.

I understand people are still loyal to Daniel, but the evidence seems clear to me that Farkeball was a strategy that needed a team to be superior to their opponents to work - look at our results against our closest rivals last season.

Whatever, I still feel positive about the rest of the season. My feelings about Farke’s NCFC had become a grey fug of misery and watching games was becoming a chore since I had no expectation of anything other than a depressing loss each time we played. But the clouds have lifted!

Edited December 12, 2021 by Nuff Said

[FenwayFrank 2,467]

I think the mentality has changed too, Smith has said a number of times that the players needed to believe they belonged in this division and they were good enough.

[Monty13 2,251]

4 minutes ago, FenwayFrank said:

I think the mentality has changed too, Smith has said a number of times that the players needed to believe they belonged in this division and they were good enough.

Think this is a major factor, listening to Dean at this level is a breath of fresh air.

[Worthy Nigelton 1,063]

5 minutes ago, FenwayFrank said:

I think the mentality has changed too, Smith has said a number of times that the players needed to believe they belonged in this division and they were good enough.

This was Farke's biggest mistake. Fans hate hearing about little miracles and how we're not good enough. Smith has been a breath of fresh air with his media comms around this stuff.

[FenwayFrank 2,467]

Just now, Worthy Nigelton said:

This was Farke's biggest mistake. Fans hate hearing about little miracles and how we're not good enough. Smith has been a breath of fresh air with his media comms around this stuff.

Hughton was the same, every pre match interview was about how we were lucky to be on the same pitch as the opposition, as a player you don’t want to hear that every week.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,450]

46 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Unfortunately as much as I love Farke in both Premier League seasons we averaged conceding two goals a game under him.

We are now much harder to play against - suddenly all our fullbacks can defend (cant be a coincidence) and I cant say we are creating any less.

We are in a position when we play well we only need to score one or two to win. Under Farke we almost always needed 3 goals to win a game in the prem.

Exactly this. We all loved Farke but anyone not seeing the difference can’t have been to the games and seen the shape changes first hand . De Gea kept them in it . I’ve only seen the saves once , in real life, but the save from Kabak looked world class. 
 

Smith has changed things. 

[Jambomo 215]

Much as I liked Farke, Smith has done a lot more right and Norwich are playing like a Premier League team now and are at least competitive.

The main things for me are that Smith has made us solid and decent in defence. Teams aren’t getting to attack the goal non-stop, or spending the entire game outside our box anymore. Though he tried, Farke wasn’t getting us good either in defence or attack, we weren’t good at anything. 

The other thing is that he is using the whole squad, nobody frozen out. I don’t think anyone (beyond the likes of Zimmerman who have long injuries) hasn’t had a least a bit of game time and those on the bench don’t look like they are glued there, lots of them have started. As we saw yesterday, you get injuries and you need everyone fit and ready to play when needed. It’s like the team spirit has risen by huge margins and everyone’s bought in.

Goals and results are the only things missing but Rome wasn’t built in a day and Man U and even Spurs were always going to be tough games the were not likely to yield points so it’s not the disaster it could be.

 

[Inch High aka Inchy.. 412]

1 win under Farke, 1 win under Smith. 

 

[Monty13 2,251]

2 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Smith and Shakespeare are a good double act I think. I'm still at the meh stage of thinking are we any better with them than with Farke and I think Farke's methods could have worked too, - looking at arsenal's match last night and they play a version of Farkeball - fannying around at the back, looking exceedingly dodgy, then turning that into a bretahtaking goal ten seconds later. 

I’m not sure, especially after last night, how you can still be wondering that. That was a far better display than anything Farke had shown this season, despite the loss and considering the context of who was available and the opposition.

The difference is Arsenal actually score goals.

[hogesar 9,743]

54 minutes ago, Inch High aka Inchy.. said:

1 win under Farke, 1 win under Smith. 

 

If you want to remove context from every single debate and argument that ever happens then sure.

[Trevor Hockey's Beard 528]

Smith has certainly come in and made us better, but his true value will be shown next season when we are back in The Championship.

I think we will look back in future years and think that the big mistake was buying in quite so much to the idea of Farkeball, and that when we went up the first time under Farke we should have bought a proven goal scorer and not relied on Pukki so much.

I cannot see us buying goals in January, so our ambition should be to not finish bottom again, so we are not the target of lazy critics.

[First Wazzock 904]

I've got to hold my hand up and say, I got this badly wrong.

I have to admit I was slightly underwhelmed when Smith was announced as our new manager. We seem to have the same circus every time we are in the market for a new manager - it's exactly the same thing when you see that lot down the road saying they are going to get Frank Lampstand. It's never going to happen.

I read lots of stuff about Smith and Shakespeare before our first game and by the Friday I was starting to feel quite optimistic. It's been evident the changes that have been implemented, and we are starting to look good. It was a bit shaky against Southampton, but bearing in mind they had only been at the club a few days, it was a good performance. Wolves were let off the hook, and we certainly looked competitive against Spuds.

Sadly I couldn't get to yesterdays game, but from what I have seen and heard the best team lost. Much as I loved Farke, he couldn't get them playing the way they are now, and if these performances continue, we'll give ourselves every chance of staying up as the wins will come.

I just hope he manages to stuff Villa as that will be the last game I'll be going to for a while.  I have an op scheduled for December 22nd, and probably wont be back for about 2 months, so come on do it for me!!!

Edited December 12, 2021 by First Wazzock

[Disco Dales Jockstrap 1,898]

15 minutes ago, First Wazzock said:

I just hope he manages to stuff Villa as that will be the last game I'll be going to for a while.  I have an op scheduled for December 22nd, and probably wont be back for about 2 months, so come on do it for me!!!

I hope your op doesn't stop you from enjoying your Christmas grub a few days later! Fingers crossed for a good result for you (and all of us) against Villa.

OTBC

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,153]

He's definitely a Premier League level coach but I think we've just got too much ground to make up now. I can envisage the narrative from Webber at the end of the season being that with Smiths PPG if he had a full season he would've kept us up but I think we'll just miss out. I'm happy we've got him though and I don't think we could do any better without the promise of money to spend

 

[Branston Pickle 3,687]

5 hours ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

Yes but one win in five suggests not much has really changed and even that one win we were totally outplayed in the first half. I think it feels more positive but the players aren't good enough sadly and that was the same problem Farke had too.

Way to go to miss the point - we looked pretty clueless for the first 9-10 games this season, but the whole side now looks like it has had an injection and we are defending and attacking with far more purpose.  Everyone seems to have a far better idea of what their role is. 

Obviously results need to follow the improved performances, and our goal tally is woeful, but if you’re not more optimistic than earlier in the season you might as well give up.

[sgncfc 1,253]

The simple fact that we are creating the chances to miss should be enough to persuade people that we have improved hugely. The players were completely lost in the first 10 games. Smith knows how to set up a team in the PL which Farke and his coaches never understood.

Results may not come quickly enough to save us, but at least we have a proper management team now.

[non-scoring strikers 113]

It’s refreshing to actually see us being competitive in this league. Before, we looked like a clusterf*** of the highest order, a meek eunuch with about as much backbone as an amoeba. 

That being said, we need firepower and we need it fast. We’re losing points every game due to our lack of goals and that will only end one way come the end of the season.

Whomever we sign in attack next month will be make or break for where we end up next season but we now have the belief within the squad that we deserve to be in this league, something we never had under the previous management.

[Worthy Nigelton 1,063]

2 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

Way to go to miss the point - we looked pretty clueless for the first 9-10 games this season, but the whole side now looks like it has had an injection and we are defending and attacking with far more purpose.  Everyone seems to have a far better idea of what their role is. 

Obviously results need to follow the improved performances, and our goal tally is woeful, but if you’re not more optimistic than earlier in the season you might as well give up.

I am more optimistic hence why I said it feels more positive. My point was that I think the recruitment has been poor and that will be our undoing. Smith is undoubtedly a good manager and I'm happy with the way he sets us up, but I was also happy with Farke. Smith's first five games have the same points return as Farke's last five... they are/were both trying to polish the same turd Webber gave them.

[Mengo 825]

8 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Smith and Shakespeare are a good double act I think. I'm still at the meh stage of thinking are we any better with them than with Farke and I think Farke's methods could have worked too, - looking at arsenal's match last night and they play a version of Farkeball - fannying around at the back, looking exceedingly dodgy, then turning that into a bretahtaking goal ten seconds later. 

Maybe we are on a good track - and to see Sorensen come on and show yet again that he is a really good player was excellent. So some positive signs, but we still just lost two matches.

SaS are a good act .no thinking needed. The teams attitude is now spot on. The players believe now.they believe in this coaching  team. Can you tell me Lakey why the previous coaching team had no room for a class act like sorenson. Somebody has to have a reason can you shed any light on this unforgiving mistake from a football perspective?