Bees

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

25 minutes ago, simmo_2 said:

So Brentford equal or bigger size club than NCFC, how small are we getting, Brentford average gate over last 10 years about 10k, N CFC 26k. Doh

Club size now sadly has very little to do with gate sizes, club size is probably more accurately measured by income and asset value. Perception is the key got to work the gimmick as they say. To the every day fan most would say Sheffield Wednesday are a bigger club than Brentford but if you were a player where would you choose to go? No brainer really at the moment. 

[KeiranShikari 1,410]

Toney had played in league 1 when they signed him and then had championship years. Can't compare that to a guy who played in the Bundesliga.

It's not even like we aren't taking 'punts' like that. What a strange thing to beat the club with.

[Ken Hairy 3,772]

19 minutes ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

And who would cost more now should another club wish to purchase one? 

Shows their recruitment team are much better than ours then 

[nutty nigel 7,534]

I think it helps that they'd won the champs before February...

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

The players I would of liked us to go for in the summer who we could of got for a similar fees would of been. 

1) Michael Olise from Reading.

2) Axel Tuanzebe from Man Utd
3) Reiss Nelson from Arsenal 

4) Connor Roberts from Swansea

5) Tammy Abraham (loan) no harm in trying if they don’t want him right. 

6) Willy Cabellero - Left Chelsea on a free great keeper who can actually distribute the ball from the back the way Farke wants 

7) Mo Sakho from Palace on a free proven PL CB

8 Demarai Grey 

9 Helder Costa 

10 Moussa Sissoko 

you get the point 

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

10 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

Shows their recruitment team are much better than ours then 

We had our one player who was worth more but we cashed in and now we look a shell of a team 

 

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

Brentford do seem to start seasons fast. After all, weren't half the Championship practically giving them the title at the half-way point last season? It doesn't help matters that Farke's never started a season quickly.

[City 2nd 191]

1 hour ago, Justin time said:

Why can’t we be Brentford?

Because we aren’t good enough!

[canarydan23 4,060]

Did Frank forget to say that games against Liverpool don't matter?

[Big Vince 318]

2 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

So much better than us in every way. 

Therefore bring back Chase.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,820]

1 hour ago, simmo_2 said:

So Brentford equal or bigger size club than NCFC, how small are we getting, Brentford average gate over last 10 years about 10k, N CFC 26k. Doh

Obviously we're a bigger club than Brentford, but to clarify, my point was aimed at where the clubs were at the time: we were upper mid-table in the Championship when Canos was here and Brentford are in the Premier League with him now.

[Canary Wundaboy 1,359]

I can accept the team needing to help. I can accept the disrupted pre-season etc. What I am really struggling to get past is that the other promoted teams just seem to want it more than we do. Despite the massive player turnover we seem scared to repeat the relegation from last time, whereas Brentford and Watford are prepared to fight tooth and nail in every match, Brentford because they know that the first season up is the hardest so they want to give it everything, Watford because relegation seemed to actually hurt them and motivated them to get promoted quickly and then make a better fist of staying up. We accepted relegation meekly, got promoted almost as a routine and now we’re up again why the hell aren’t we showing the kind of desire needed to actually try and stay up this time?!

[interwebme 52]

3 hours ago, Petriix said:

It's really f***ing simple: Brentford haven't abandoned the footballing identity which got them promoted and Norwich have. While they maintained their attacking philosophy, we ripped up our system and attempted to do something entirely different.

I am genuinely baffled as to why Farke keeps d*cking around with these new formations and stubbornly refuses to even countenance the idea that we might use what worked so incredibly well last season.

Watching the success of Leeds, Villa, Brentford and even Sheffield United (before they imploded) is sickening. We could have come out guns blazing and caused teams real problems. Instead we've become a nothing team with absolutely no threat going forward.

The worst thing is that we're so incredibly boring to watch. We have nothing about us anymore. We're totally hamstrung. While the opening fixtures should have been a free hit, we instead tried to become something we're not and, in doing so, we've forgotten what we were. 

I guess the issue is 19/20 we kept our identity and played the same way as the promotion season and that didn't end so well. 

 

Norwich really stuck between a rock and a hard place right now. Stick with something that didn't work? Or try to change to something else that might not work?

[Yobocop 1,099]

Much like when we got promoted before they didn’t change their squad dramatically and much like us they will get found out 

let’s not forget we took 4 points off them last time out 

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

5 hours ago, The Real Buh said:

Why

aren’t 

we

Bees

??

Because we can't score against Liverpool?

 

 

[Petriix 2,835]

1 hour ago, interwebme said:

I guess the issue is 19/20 we kept our identity and played the same way as the promotion season and that didn't end so well. 

 

Norwich really stuck between a rock and a hard place right now. Stick with something that didn't work? Or try to change to something else that might not work?

We just needed to continue the improvement rather than ripping it up and starting again. Investing in the squad should mean we're able to do the same thing better. 

In 19/20 we were ravaged by injuries as well as having horrendous luck with officials and VAR. I know it was awful after the restart but we weren't all that far away. 

The squad at the end of 20/21 was massively improved over the 19/20 players with Dowell, Gibson and Giannoulis brought in and many individuals reaching new levels.

I was fine with selling Buendia. The fee was astronomical and I couldn't envisage multiple ~ £10m signings failing to improve our attack. 

But I couldn't imagine the midfield being so tactically compromised. We needed a single, quality replacement for Skipp. Instead we've brought in PLM and Gilmour and destroyed our balance completely.

We've gone from having a double pivot of two positionally disciplined CDMs to having 3 CMs who are all over the place and a weakened attack in front of them.

The only hope is that Normann can become a reliable CDM and that Gilmour miraculously learns how to read the game when we don't have the ball.

We've built our success on having 4 attacking players who can tear teams apart through rapid transitions - creating and exploiting overloads, pressing and winning the ball back high and quickly. We've inexplicably abandoned that and now we offer nothing at all.

Edited September 26, 2021 by Petriix

[aBee 151]

3 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

Brentford do seem to start seasons fast. After all, weren't half the Championship practically giving them the title at the half-way point last season? It doesn't help matters that Farke's never started a season quickly.

After 6 games last season we only had one more point than we do this season. And that was from wins against three of the poorest Championship teams (Huddersfield, Coventry, Sheff W). We’d lost to the distinctly mediocre Birmingham and Preston. Brentford have started all but one of our Championship seasons quite poorly as each summer saw our best players sold and new ones take time to bed in. Against Liverpool we started with 9 players who were with us last season plus Ajer and Onyeka. It’s quite unbelievable. 

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

5 hours ago, aBee said:

After 6 games last season we only had one more point than we do this season. And that was from wins against three of the poorest Championship teams (Huddersfield, Coventry, Sheff W). We’d lost to the distinctly mediocre Birmingham and Preston. Brentford have started all but one of our Championship seasons quite poorly as each summer saw our best players sold and new ones take time to bed in. Against Liverpool we started with 9 players who were with us last season plus Ajer and Onyeka. It’s quite unbelievable. 

Fair  play to the Bees.  Confidence  is a massive part of success,  you seem to have it at the moment,  we don't.  Maybe  things  for us will improve  but I think we may have overstretched our ability to assimilate  new players , change systems  and league,  all at once. Can't say I know much about your squad depth .... that Is vital imo , best of luck to ye anyway, you're fun to watch. Didn't know your final score yesterday  till motd....a very entertaining  watch. Cheers!!

[Don’t be Krul 399]

Just watched the highlights as I was lining Eddie Hearn's deep pockets last night and from what I saw there was one massive ingredient that Brentford have and we don't........DESIRE

[Samwam27 527]

1 hour ago, Don’t be Krul said:

Just watched the highlights as I was lining Eddie Hearn's deep pockets last night and from what I saw there was one massive ingredient that Brentford have and we don't........DESIRE

Also Franke described his players performance as brave. They were motivated and were fighting for everything. Interesting how far they've improved and we've gone backwards. Is there DESIRE in our performances?

[aBee 151]

2 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

Fair  play to the Bees.  Confidence  is a massive part of success,  you seem to have it at the moment,  we don't.  Maybe  things  for us will improve  but I think we may have overstretched our ability to assimilate  new players , change systems  and league,  all at once. Can't say I know much about your squad depth .... that Is vital imo , best of luck to ye anyway, you're fun to watch. Didn't know your final score yesterday  till motd....a very entertaining  watch. Cheers!!

On paper we’re a little short of cover for the wing back/full back positions and obviously don’t have another Toney (though Forss scored 4 in the Carabao and is highly rated, IMO he would benefit from a Championship loan but we’d be entirely without centre forward back up if he did). 
 

I think you need a lot more fight and to take defending seriously. This season in particular I’ve noticed our keeper and CBs celebrating stops and clearances like Chiellini and the Italians at the euros, as valuable and valued as scoring at the other end. As an attacking team if Norwich can combine that with the belief they can score you could turn it round. You have four teams above you you can catch next match with a win. 6 straight defeats is rough but the table is kind and you’re only stranded if you have stopped believing you can go and win some games. I’d have been appalled had we lost four and our manager said he’d not at all expected us to win any of them, even with your tough start. You earned your place here as we did. Start acting like it and if Farke is resigned to defeat he is no good for you mentally. Frank started his time here with 8 defeats in his first ten games but never looked or sounded like that was just to be expected or that he had no thought how to change things, even if that didn’t happen overnight. 
 

Good luck  

 

[Jim Smith 2,317]

Well targeted recruitment done early in key positions, well drilled defence. Extra power and athleticism. All the lessons we were supposed to have and should have learnt. Weird that we with our past experience haven’t learnt them yet they have. Oh snd didn’t sell their best player as they don’t have owners that contribute nothing to the club.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

13 hours ago, K Lo said:

Look on the bright side, we'll be in the Premier League 2023-24.

No we won’t. This season is potentially going to be so bad it will take a long time to come back from. 

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

15 hours ago, Jsim1986 said:

Shows how far behind Farke is in his management compared to Frank. Considering they spent less than us and came up through the play offs 

They did not spend less than us. They didn't sell their best player, they kept him and strengthened. They also realised they needed a player wage structure to attract people like our number 1 defensive target. I am so fed up with the owners performance in the top flight. Have made us an embarrassment in the top flight.

The thought that we are stronger this time is laughable. 

So so fed up with the shambles that is NCFC at the moment.

[aBee 151]

4 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Well targeted recruitment done early in key positions, well drilled defence. Extra power and athleticism. All the lessons we were supposed to have and should have learnt. Weird that we with our past experience haven’t learnt them yet they have. Oh snd didn’t sell their best player as they don’t have owners that contribute nothing to the club.

Brentford’s two directors of football gave a long (nearly 3 hours in the edited podcast) interview in a pub to fans and the beesotted fanzine a few days after the play off final. Way back in early June they said the top thing they were looking at for PL recruitment was athleticism. They’ve also built the club on knowing and planning for selling their star players at their peak values. Norwich knew Buendia would go. They knew Skipp was on loan (we’ve not loaned in anyone beyond Reid in January as temporary injury cover and nobody else for about 3 seasons, our only loan this season is a Spain international reserve keeper we have an option to buy when someone offers us the silly money they will for Raya) . I’d not let the club off the hook for replacing too late when they could have bought and integrated new players a window or two ahead. 

[Jim Smith 2,317]

1 minute ago, aBee said:

Brentford’s two directors of football gave a long (nearly 3 hours in the edited podcast) interview in a pub to fans and the beesotted fanzine a few days after the play off final. Way back in early June they said the top thing they were looking at for PL recruitment was athleticism. They’ve also built the club on knowing and planning for selling their star players at their peak values. Norwich knew Buendia would go. They knew Skipp was on loan (we’ve not loaned in anyone beyond Reid in January as temporary injury cover and nobody else for about 3 seasons, our only loan this season is a Spain international reserve keeper we have an option to buy when someone offers us the silly money they will for Raya) . I’d not let the club off the hook for replacing too late when they could have bought and integrated new players a window or two ahead. 

Alright. Know you are chuffed with how things are going but the semi gloating nature of your posts is not necessary. Our sporting director said they were targeting athleticism as well (hardly insightful) we just seem to have screwed up by not signing it!

[Badger 2,405]

13 hours ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

And who would cost more now should another club wish to purchase one? 

The lesson therefore being that we are spending too much on players?

I thought most people were arguing the opposite?

[Jim Smith 2,317]

15 minutes ago, Badger said:

The lesson therefore being that we are spending too much on players?

I thought most people were arguing the opposite?

I think we needed to spend a bit more on a few less players personally. Overall spend probably unchanged but more targeted. 

[Badger 2,405]

54 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

They did not spend less than us. They didn't sell their best player, they kept him and strengthened. They also realised they needed a player wage structure to attract people like our number 1 defensive target.

1. Transfermarket says that we spent just under £60 million and they spent £33.5 million, so we did spend more money than Brentford it is a simple fact. Brentford however, made fewer sales so their net spend was slightly higher.

2. There is no way that Brentford will spend more than us on wages. Our wages spend will be at least £10 million higher than theirs probably a lot more than this.

3. We will be paying Kabak much, much more than  Brentford pay Ajer.

You are talking nonsense on this - it is nothing to with me being a "happy clapper" or caring any less than you do , but you are simply not accurate in what you say.

[Badger 2,405]

2 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I think we needed to spend a bit more on a few less players personally. Overall spend probably unchanged but more targeted. 

Certainly atm, I can't argue against you that it looks that way. There is a long way to go, and unlike many posters I haven't given up already, but it does seem that we have bought too man players to integrate in a short timescale.

I can't help seeing it as a race to get the team fully integrated with a clear understanding before confidence is totally destroyed. (It's why I think booing is so unhelpful but, perhaps we'll leave discussion of this to the other thread 😀)