if we don't sign a centre back

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

Well this has been thrashed about a lot. Gibson looks the real deal, Zimmermann to me has looked off the pace somewhat but he is back from injury. I do like Hanley but he is injury prone and not played yet this season. Tettey great club servant that he has been is not a CB, and struggles to play 50% of games any way and i suspect he will be needed in midfield anyway. Given that picture as above anyone who does not think we need another CB in the squad is bonkers. We have not started the season very well and we are a couple of injuries away from having a pretty thin defense

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

6 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I'm not sure there's that many perfectly balanced sides in this division as you're wanting us to be, although I say that without actually looking...

I can't imagine there are many sides with 29 players in their first team squad though. 

That doesn't include anybody that could come back in January, just the ones still here, and I am counting Trybull-Drmic-Leitner.

One defence I can put up is that the club were probably hoping they'd be able to shift the bomb squad in this window and free up wages. 

But that still doesn't really explain to me why we'd loan out our 2nd choice left back to another Championship side which is going to use him as their 2nd choice left back, leaving our right back cover to be our left back cover. Its just odd.

I do understand why they may think that Famewo would benefit from a full season out on loan, like Godfrey at Shrewsbury, but I really think this needs to be followed (now that Godfrey has gone) with us loaning somebody for a year in the interim.

[Doomcaster 10]

We need a currently active decent quality C/B - one who can win headers & tackle - whilst staying in position would be great (but not a slow donkey)

I just hope Webber / Farke don't repeat the same mistake as last season

2 of our CB's are very well know as injury prone - Gibson has not played much football at this level for 2 years

NCFC has loads of cash - spend some on a decent & currently active & without an injury history CB please

[Thirsty Lizard 3,165]

8 minutes ago, Doomcaster said:

We need a currently active decent quality C/B - one who can win headers & tackle - whilst staying in position would be great (but not a slow donkey)

I just hope Webber / Farke don't repeat the same mistake as last season

2 of our CB's are very well know as injury prone - Gibson has not played much football at this level for 2 years

NCFC has loads of cash - spend some on a decent & currently active & without an injury history CB please

No we don't you giant clown!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Which part of: Covid-19 will wipe £35 million off our revenues don't you understand??

[hogesar 9,676]

12 minutes ago, king canary said:

The left back situation is a bit weird as we went into this window well overstocked (Lewis, Quintialla, McCallum, Heise) and now have just one left. 

Obviously Lewis wasn't really our choice and it makes sense to loan McCallum out rather than have him sit on the bench but it does almost sound a bit like we're relying on Byram getting and staying fit.

Don't disagree. I have no idea but is there anyone in the youth setup who might be being considered as potential LB cover?

In an ideal world I'd like us to sign another CB as a sort of minimum as that would at least allow us to play 3 at the back and wingbacks should we suffer injuries at fullback, so one signing would potentially give us cover for the entire defensive line. 

[king canary 7,609]

2 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Don't disagree. I have no idea but is there anyone in the youth setup who might be being considered as potential LB cover?

In an ideal world I'd like us to sign another CB as a sort of minimum as that would at least allow us to play 3 at the back and wingbacks should we suffer injuries at fullback, so one signing would potentially give us cover for the entire defensive line. 

No idea to be honest.

I'd suggest right now we're already a bit over reliant on unproven youngsters providing cover (Omodibale, Mumba) and it might be nice to add an experienced head to the mix. 

[Branston Pickle 3,660]

53 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I'm not sure there's that many perfectly balanced sides in this division as you're wanting us to be, although I say that without actually looking...

That’s probably true - but we were much more balanced until we let a load go out on loan; if we go with what we’ve currently got, we are relying rather too much on good fortune with regard to injuries before starting to need to play guys out of position. I’m all for ‘utility’ players being able to fill in occasionally but it is far better better to put round pegs in round holes. 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,400]

1 hour ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

No we don't you giant clown!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Which part of: Covid-19 will wipe £35 million off our revenues don't you understand??

So £35 million lost plus transfers this window. But set against huge fees for Godfrey and Lewis as well as the revenue from the Prem that clearly wasn't spent on promotion leaves me, and others I suspect, not quite ready to hand the plate round for the poor Canaries board...

[chicken 2,627]

2 hours ago, king canary said:

The key point was we let two central defenders leave in January, thus forcing us to throw him straight back into a packed schedule where his lack of fitness was totally exposed.

In reality it was actually Zimmerman that was thrown back. This was all before Covid and Klose wasn't really part of the plan bar the last couple of games, that's the point I was making. Klose was only rushed back in because of an injury to Zimmerman and because of the lockdown period meaning Klose was actually able to take part. 

[chicken 2,627]

9 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

So £35 million lost plus transfers this window. But set against huge fees for Godfrey and Lewis as well as the revenue from the Prem that clearly wasn't spent on promotion leaves me, and others I suspect, not quite ready to hand the plate round for the poor Canaries board...

The Premier League money is largely TV money, and there are now sounds about having to pay an amount of that back due to the impact of covid upon the contract. So we may have to wait and see about how that plays out. 

[Bonzo 198]

A fit Gibson and Zimmerman with Hanley challenging is a sound platform. Tetty is not a disaster at CB but it wouldn't be good if he was forced to play as our first choice option for any length of time. However this year he'll be filling in in the Championship not the Prem. Plus we have youngsters coming through.

A loan option or purchase in the January window is also a possibility if we have injuries. 

Things really have changed for all clubs. Revenues due to the lack of crowds have collapsed. Clubs are going to go to the wall especially in the EFL and below.

We will lose about £15m from our gate/ season ticket take this year (rough guesstimate). 

In this context a fourth CB isn't the most important thing right now.

Having Klose off the payroll and possibly sold will save us maybe a million pounds this year in wages. Plus any transfer fee we get for him plus any saving we make on his wages for next year all this helps the cause. 

We still have the salaries for Leitner, Drmic and Trybull sat on our wage bill. A fourth CB would be a luxury in this environment, especially one who could challenge for a first team start right away.

Preserving cash should be our #1 priority.  We may be better off than many but we can't ignore what is happening either. 

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Bonzo

[Thirsty Lizard 3,165]

31 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

So £35 million lost plus transfers this window. But set against huge fees for Godfrey and Lewis as well as the revenue from the Prem that clearly wasn't spent on promotion leaves me, and others I suspect, not quite ready to hand the plate round for the poor Canaries board...

We don't know the exact figures........ and hopefully we've got something in the kitty if we want to bring in another centre back.

But the post I was replying to stated that 'we've got loads of cash'. This is clearly delusional. 

[Alex Moss 2,165]

It’s clear that there’s a gap in the CB area of our squad that needs filling, no question. But, if Farke believes Omobamidele is ready then of course we won’t sign someone, as the guy is already here. Some will scream cheap option, but who the hell cares - that’s very obviously a good thing, if he’s the right guy. 

Given what Daniel has done with Max, Ben and Jamal, then he has more than earned the respect of everyone when it comes to judging whether another young defender is ready to step off the NCFC conveyer belt.

If anything, it only makes me all the more excited to see this kid play, should he actually get a game or more for the seniors this season.

[TIL 1010 4,748]

Coasting through a 46 game season with a total of three centre backs one of whom is a bit of a sick note is asking for trouble.

[king canary 7,609]

21 minutes ago, chicken said:

In reality it was actually Zimmerman that was thrown back. This was all before Covid and Klose wasn't really part of the plan bar the last couple of games, that's the point I was making. Klose was only rushed back in because of an injury to Zimmerman and because of the lockdown period meaning Klose was actually able to take part. 

I feel like we're basically agreeing here- essentially if we'd kept Famewo and Amadou we wouldn't have had to risk Zimmerman and Klose. 

[chicken 2,627]

4 minutes ago, king canary said:

I feel like we're basically agreeing here- essentially if we'd kept Famewo and Amadou we wouldn't have had to risk Zimmerman and Klose. 

Mostly, yes. But it's just that if you are going to base an argument on the basis of players being fit and injured it's important to get the context right for the time in which decisions were made.

I believe I am right in saying that in January we had Zimmerman, Godfrey and a returning Hanley with Klose expected to return for the very latter stages of the season and Tettey who could deputise.

Hanley was on the bench for games prior to lock down and then injured in training just before Project Restart so missed the rest of the season. Zimmermann was injured after the end of January and Klose was already out.

So we had three fit first team centre backs at the time. Heisse was a risk, especially when Byram was already injured. Amadou pushed to leave, and sometimes it just isn't down to whether you need to a keep a player which I think Farke said at the time.

As Til says though, you want 4 CB's at any one time, preferably at least three fit and playable. Especially from the get go.

As I have said about this season though, the window should have shut far sooner. The pandemic doesn't stop anything other than perhaps delay medicals a bit. There was no real need to extend the window into the 2nd month of the season - well, not unless you are the top sides in Europe who it only seems to have benefited. Should have been same as. They wouldn't have pushed it back for the Euros... 

 

 

[Jerrykerry 223]

We have three good centre backs, plus two youngsters who can come through, plus two defensive midfielders in Tettey and sorensen who could fill in. 

We also have the loan option still. 

What a bunch of pant wetting panic merchants. 

It's the championship. We ain't facing salah and kane now. 

[Haus 259]

1 hour ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

So £35 million lost plus transfers this window. But set against huge fees for Godfrey and Lewis as well as the revenue from the Prem that clearly wasn't spent on promotion leaves me, and others I suspect, not quite ready to hand the plate round for the poor Canaries board...

this plus parachute payments incoming, and the fact that other teams are in a worse position than us so we could possibly get some bargains.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

Not only that, Sorensen plays for Denmark U21s as a centre-half. I would not be surprised at all if he "does a Godfrey" and ends up being a centre-half in the long-run. The ability for a centre-half to carry / pass the ball is a very useful one in the modern game, and definitely one Farke likes to have in his teams ton construct attacks from the back.

[Mr.Carrow 376]

Given that Hanley is the club captain and an experienced and proven top player at this level, does anybody fancy the job of enticing a top young centre back with the line "unless we get injuries, you probably won't be in the match day squad"? Also Famewo will probably be recallable in January so, whilst it's a bit of a risk, I think we'll stick with what we've got.

[king canary 7,609]

7 hours ago, Mr.Carrow said:

Given that Hanley is the club captain and an experienced and proven top player at this level, does anybody fancy the job of enticing a top young centre back with the line "unless we get injuries, you probably won't be in the match day squad"? Also Famewo will probably be recallable in January so, whilst it's a bit of a risk, I think we'll stick with what we've got.

If they are a top young centre back then they would be a better option than Hanley or Zimmerman in my opinion so wouldn't be out of the squad.

[Gordon Bennett 784]

If we don't sign somebody then I expect Omobamidele to be the fourth option. However if he’s not and it’s Tettey then while that would absolutely be less than ideal he will be having much less capable players than last season on the PL. 
 

Would be really nice if the whole argument was moot and we didn’t have to use any more than the three we have. 

[BroadstairsR 2,173]

On balance it is clear to me that anoither central defender on the books is imperative before we progress further into the season. The harsh lesson from last season and the fact that there are lots and lots of tightly crammed fixtures on the horizon suggest to me that the Board/Webber/Farke would be more than a bit negligent if they failed to take this option.

This is despite some of the compelling arguments against such expenditure that have been put forward in this thread, namely the competent one, two, three we have, the youngsters coming through and the likes of Sorensen being available.

It need also be considered that because of our below par start to the campaign we are, to a limited extent admittedly, already playing catch-up so no risks whatsoever should be taken.

[Alex Moss 2,165]

I’m starting to think Lungi might just be the 4th man. It’s not out of the realms of possibility that Farke has watched him in training and sees his qualities better placed as a CB, he could well have impressed in that role for all we know. And given Farke’s ability to turn some of our young players into multi million pound defenders then his track record says nothing other than trust him if that were to be the case in all fairness.

[Badger 2,405]

22 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I do understand why they may think that Famewo would benefit from a full season out on loan, like Godfrey at Shrewsbury, but I really think this needs to be followed (now that Godfrey has gone) with us loaning somebody for a year in the interim.

I suspect that the problem may be that if you loan a good youngster from a PL club they will expect you to play them, which throws all plans out of the window, It seems that they viewed Klose as 4th choice, which is why he wanted to leave.

If you can't loan someone, you are then looking to buy - presumably they don't wish to buy "just to fill the numbers," especially if they feel that they have players that can fill the positions. 

I think that there might also be a philosophical/ cultural issue too - too many back ups prevents the younger players from having the opportunities to step up + means that other more established players just don't get a look in, which it creates its own problems.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

8 minutes ago, Badger said:

I suspect that the problem may be that if you loan a good youngster from a PL club they will expect you to play them, which throws all plans out of the window, It seems that they viewed Klose as 4th choice, which is why he wanted to leave.

If you can't loan someone, you are then looking to buy - presumably they don't wish to buy "just to fill the numbers," especially if they feel that they have players that can fill the positions. 

I think that there might also be a philosophical/ cultural issue too - too many back ups prevents the younger players from having the opportunities to step up + means that other more established players just don't get a look in, which it creates its own problems.

The bit in bold is key, and quite probably the fundamental plank of the notion that Norwich City is to be a self-sustaining club. We sell ourselves to promising young talents heavily on the fact that the pathway to first-team action is clear. So it makes sound, logical sense that a lot of reserve players are likely to be promising youngsters close to making that step up if we're having the discussion of "who's the fourth-choice centre-half / reserve full-back / spare inflatable blow-up doll / latest scapegoat, etc..

If Omobamidele or Sorensen are seen as the fourth centre-half until the January window, then Famewo and Bushiri are brought back in January if we get an injury crisis, I would be more than happy with that. Especially as Klose's wages would then be off the bill, and he would be getting regular game time (assuming he stays fit).

I think @Bethnal Yellow and Green said that Rob Nizet was a promising left-back in the U23s, but I'm also sure he said Hondermarck was arguably the main prospect in there, but he's a central midfielder.

Edited October 13, 2020 by TheGunnShow
Odd case of bracket-itis.

[Jerrykerry 223]

No rumours... No signing. 

Let's stir the pot. 

[Branston Pickle 3,660]

20 hours ago, Jerrykerry said:

We have three good centre backs, plus two youngsters who can come through, plus two defensive midfielders in Tettey and sorensen who could fill in. 

We also have the loan option still. 

What a bunch of pant wetting panic merchants. 

It's the championship. We ain't facing salah and kane now. 

We also could, you know, buy someone - but both the loan and buy options close on Friday until January.

What we actually have currently at cb is 3 good players of which 1 is match-sharp, 1 has played a couple of games in two years and 1 who has been out since February (I think?).  One injury to any of those and we will be using an 18 year-old or guys out of position in what is a key role.  It would be rather unnecessary/poor planning to need to limp to the next window when we do have options but who we’ve loaned out.

I’m as far from a pant wetter as you can get, but conceding goals at the rate we have done for 2+ years is pretty ridiculous and I fail to see how reducing our options in defence will help.

Edited October 13, 2020 by Branston Pickle

[Gordon Bennett 784]

59 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

I’m starting to think Lungi might just be the 4th man. It’s not out of the realms of possibility that Farke has watched him in training and sees his qualities better placed as a CB, he could well have impressed in that role for all we know. And given Farke’s ability to turn some of our young players into multi million pound defenders then his track record says nothing other than trust him if that were to be the case in all fairness.

You should know by now that lots of people on here know better than our head coach. 

[Alex Moss 2,165]

41 minutes ago, Gordon Bennett said:

You should know by now that lots of people on here know better than our head coach. 

It does appear that way, yes, GB - some even know exactly what he’s thinking without him even muttering such a thought by all accounts.

In total agreement that we must have a 4th choice central defender, I don’t think any supporter will debate otherwise. I think the main issue is where should that defender come from? My feeling is that he’s already here - Sorensen - which I don’t see any problem with if Daniel thinks he’s good enough - and players such as Omobamidele and Tettey will only be considered if something ridiculous happens. No club should realistically have to have 5th and 6th choice centre backs being deployed for any length of time, if at all, so if Lungi’s the man then that’s alright by me. He’s not a square peg for a round hole either.