Sack Farke Now?

[Foxy2600 301]

Yes sack Farke straight after the FA Cup 1/4 final if he hasn’t come up with a cunning plan. He and a few others will just be highly expensive baggage after that. 

[yellow_belly 226]

I believe that having no crowd for months will save Farke. If the crowd turned at the game he would be out soon.

[Clint 221]

Cantiaci, maybe but I think a lot of what we achieved was brought on by momentum. Those late winners can do a massive amount for confidence and ultimately we had decent players who improved immeasurably with that.

This thread isn’t about how good we were last season, we were brilliant for the second half of the season, it’s about what Farke is adding as a manager at this level. 
The point of my post is that his in game management was very basic last year but it got us through some tricky times, that then lead to the confidence that brought about the latter part of the season.

The point is at this level, it’s just not as simple as bringing on Rhodes. Many matches this season we’ve ended up with a vast number of attackers on the pitch but still create no chances for them. This is fairly obvious. As I said on my original post, it’s not a game of championship manager, although last season very much felt like it was at times.

So did Farke just rude his luck last season and it was a perfect storm? 

[Ian 1,129]

Just now, Clint said:

Cantiaci, maybe but I think a lot of what we achieved was brought on by momentum. Those late winners can do a massive amount for confidence and ultimately we had decent players who improved immeasurably with that.

This thread isn’t about how good we were last season, we were brilliant for the second half of the season, it’s about what Farke is adding as a manager at this level. 
The point of my post is that his in game management was very basic last year but it got us through some tricky times, that then lead to the confidence that brought about the latter part of the season.

The point is at this level, it’s just not as simple as bringing on Rhodes. Many matches this season we’ve ended up with a vast number of attackers on the pitch but still create no chances for them. This is fairly obvious. As I said on my original post, it’s not a game of championship manager, although last season very much felt like it was at times.

So did Farke just rude his luck last season and it was a perfect storm? 

Ffs, get a grip. Look at the absolute shower of a squad we have cobbled together and then say it's down to Farke with a straight face.

[Essjayess 307]

1 hour ago, Clint said:

I really don’t see the benefit in persisting. It’s the same mistakes tonight that’s we’re happening three years ago in the championship....

Zonal marking, which is particularly hopeless in a struggling side as no one wants to take responsibility for anything.

Conceding goals either shortly before or shortly after half time. Down to a lack of focus.

Lack of in-game management. We all know the deal with this so I won’t go into it. I do find the approach of doing nothing until we’re losing and then bring on every attacking player you have with 20 mins left particularly annoying. It’s not championship manager. 

The appalling set-pieces from us. How often have we scored, minus Vrancic, who sits on the bench every match.

Its just so many of the same problems. I don’t see what the point in giving him next season would do as he’s clearly so far out of his depth at this level it’s unbelievable. 

Keane has just said that they changed tactics at half time, just as Southampton did Friday night. What do we honestly hope to achieve with Farke in charge? 

 

 

Maybe on the pitch you think its the same as 3 seasons ago, but i look at the more important bigger picture. Are we going down?..sure...Will we be knocked out of the cup by Manure?...sure...have our performances on the pitch been  more than disapointing?...sure. So the season has been a disaster?...nope...its been successful...care of last season's results .

The difference between this relegation and the one under Alex Neil is like chalk and cheese...last time we had an ageing team...financially  were up against it..etc etc.  Now Colney is looking better...the club are in early stages of a Carrow road expand (hopefully)..we have a set of youngsters  who will bring money into the coffers if necessary and fulfilling fixtures helps us as a club beat even the disater of Coronavirus effects.

These benefits...compared to last time...are a result of having Webber and Daniel in charge and getting us into the Premier at the best possible time. So the NCFC yo yo-ing continues in the top two divisions...so whats new there?. DF and Webber should stay as long as they want and need to, i had enough of the DF bashers when we werent doing so good in the Champs..but we have to look at the overall improve at the club in all its areas...yes, results on the pitch of course matter to fans...but the general health and well being of a club like City...unique in its self funding ways yet still in the top 25..is more more important than nearly any other club in that top 25. Wanting rid of DF is totally nuts in my opinion.

[Van wink 2,994]

Name me one manager in the world that would have kept us up with the squad we have, the lack of finance, the horrendous list of injuries and now when we most need the backing of the crowd to lift our guys, playing in an empty stadium.

Any City manager starts the season with one hand tied behind his back, that’s the reality of our club, but then to have so many things conspire against us, he had no chance.

[canarydan23 4,060]

4 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Name me one manager in the world that would have kept us up with the squad we have, the lack of finance, the horrendous list of injuries and now when we most need the backing of the crowd to lift our guys, playing in an empty stadium.

Any City manager starts the season with one hand tied behind his back, that’s the reality of our club, but then to have so many things conspire against us, he had no chance.

Glenn Roeder. 

[City 2nd 191]

1 hour ago, Cantiaci Canary said:

No, stick with the project.

Pep wouldn't have a Championship side any higher than 20th.

Farke knows how to win the Championship title. Let him and Webber continue to grow the club from the roots and eventually we might get there and stick there.

The "project" being what. Ncfc will be nowhere near another championship title with Farke. City will struggle next season, we are a falling and failing side. It won't be the first time a second relegation has followed the first!

There will be a need to cover the debts this pandemic has brought upon the club, and it won't be covered by our pauper owners. The silverware will be sold, youngsters will need to come in who will need sound coaching, sound tactics,  and a winning belief instilled. Farke is not the man I see doing that. One success does not make him manager of the year. Just ask those who have brought the club success ìn the past. Historically they have all been let down, Farkes reign will be no different.

[Clint 221]

Essjayess, good post but I guess the whole point of my thread is what is the point in keeping Farke?

Yes, as a club we’re in a much better position than previously and I don’t dispute, we’ll probably have a decent season next year under Farke. But if we did go up again, which would be the expectation, what would be different? We would just end up exactly where we are now.

Surely if we’re ever aiming to be an established top flight team, we need a manager who can cut it at that level? Of do we sack Farke if we get promoted again? I expect not!

I understand the limitations in the squad and spending etc but that doesn’t hide the shortcomings of the management team. I guess another question would be how much input does Farke have in the recruitment? 
In my head, someone had to take the can for that as it’s been absolutely dire. 

[lake district canary 4,531]

1 minute ago, Clint said:

But if we did go up again, which would be the expectation, what would be different? We would just end up exactly where we are now. 

Yes, if Farke did it again, we would be back in the PL playing football, a fresh challenge, some different players, a year's extra experience for players and Farke himself - and momentum from the lift of getting promotion again giving optimism we can make a better job of it. 

Changing it would be for change's sake and there is no logic to changing the manager. If Farke did get us promoted again, he would be a hero figure again.  Apart from that, he is one of the most intelligent coaches around and we would be mad to get rid.

[PurpleCanary 5,561]

Two points. Whether some fans like it or not, and some do not like it, there is a project, and in crude terms it envisages slow two steps forward one step back growth. The summer and winter transfer windows, with the influx of young players, very much part of that.

This financially prudent project is in effect a necessity, given that the club is owned by paupers. To repeat myself, if fans don’t like the project then they need to work, with ‘work’ being the operative word, to get rid of the owners.

Secondly, last summer a poster made the valid point that not only were the players going to find the EPL was a big step up in class, but so was Farke, who would be pitting his wits against some of the best coaches/managers in the world. Even making justifiable allowances, I think he has shown he still has a fair bit to learn.

 

Just to put that in context, Farke’s opposite number tonight has managed Parma, Juve, Milan, Real Madrid, PSG, Bayern Munich, Napoli...

 

 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2020 by PurpleCanary

[The Raptor 1,210]

16 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Glenn Roeder. 

Im assuming thats a joke?

If he had done we still would've had to sack him after a year as he would've acted like a fool and fallen out with all the players/staff! 

[hogesar 9,672]

1 minute ago, PurpleCanary said:

Two points. Whether some fans like it or not, and some do not like it, there is a project, and in crude terms it envisages slow two steps forward one step back growth. The summer and winter transfer windows, with the influx of young players, very much part of that.

This financially prudent project is in effect a necessity, given that the club is owned by paupers. To repeat myself, if fans don’t like the project then they need to work, with ‘work’ being the operative word, to get rid of the owners.

Secondly, last summer a poster made the valid point that not only were the players going to find the EPL was a big step up in class, but so was Farke, who would be pitting his wits against some of the best coaches/managers in the world. Even making justifiable allowances, I think he has shown he still has a fair bit to learn.

 

 

 

 

According to @TeemuVanBasten there is no project, or plan, but then again he does have a habit of missing things.

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

20 minutes ago, City 2nd said:

The "project" being what. Ncfc will be nowhere near another championship title with Farke. City will struggle next season, we are a falling and failing side. It won't be the first time a second relegation has followed the first!

There will be a need to cover the debts this pandemic has brought upon the club, and it won't be covered by our pauper owners. The silverware will be sold, youngsters will need to come in who will need sound coaching, sound tactics,  and a winning belief instilled. Farke is not the man I see doing that. One success does not make him manager of the year. Just ask those who have brought the club success ìn the past. Historically they have all been let down, Farkes reign will be no different.

And who do you get in to replace him? If you can offer me a credible, realistic replacement then I might agree with you.

We gave Alex Neil - a similarly inexperienced manager - time and patience, I don't understand why we shouldn't do the same with Farke. 

[Ian 1,129]

22 minutes ago, City 2nd said:

The "project" being what. Ncfc will be nowhere near another championship title with Farke. City will struggle next season, we are a falling and failing side. It won't be the first time a second relegation has followed the first!

There will be a need to cover the debts this pandemic has brought upon the club, and it won't be covered by our pauper owners. The silverware will be sold, youngsters will need to come in who will need sound coaching, sound tactics,  and a winning belief instilled. Farke is not the man I see doing that. One success does not make him manager of the year. Just ask those who have brought the club success ìn the past. Historically they have all been let down, Farkes reign will be no different.

Bookmarked for future reference.

[canarydan23 4,060]

4 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

And who do you get in to replace him? If you can offer me a credible, realistic replacement then I might agree with you.

We gave Alex Neil - a similarly inexperienced manager - time and patience, I don't understand why we shouldn't do the same with Farke. 

I don't think Farke should be sacked, he has more than earned the right for a second stab at the Championship. He majorly ballsed up today and Friday but so has every manager from time to time.

That said, if he was to depart, I'd be ringing Mark Robins. Working wonders in very difficult conditions at Coventry.

Edited June 24, 2020 by canarydan23

[Ian 1,129]

2 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

I don't think Farke should be sacked, he has more than earned the right for a second stab at the Championship. He majorly ballsed up today and Friday but so has every manager from time to time.

That said, if he was to depart, I'd be ringing Mark Robins. Working wonders in very difficult conditions at Coventry.

Christ.

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

Just now, canarydan23 said:

I don't think Farke should be sacked, he has more than earned the right for a second stab at the Championship. He majorly ballsed up today and Wednesday but so has every manager from time to time.

That said, if he was to depart, I'd be ringing Mark Robins. Working wonders in very difficult conditions at Coventry.

Mark Robins has a lot going for him. What I worry about is a lack of Championship experience. 

[Cantiaci Canary 557]

57 minutes ago, Clint said:

Cantiaci, maybe but I think a lot of what we achieved was brought on by momentum. Those late winners can do a massive amount for confidence and ultimately we had decent players who improved immeasurably with that.

This thread isn’t about how good we were last season, we were brilliant for the second half of the season, it’s about what Farke is adding as a manager at this level. 
The point of my post is that his in game management was very basic last year but it got us through some tricky times, that then lead to the confidence that brought about the latter part of the season.

The point is at this level, it’s just not as simple as bringing on Rhodes. Many matches this season we’ve ended up with a vast number of attackers on the pitch but still create no chances for them. This is fairly obvious. As I said on my original post, it’s not a game of championship manager, although last season very much felt like it was at times.

So did Farke just rude his luck last season and it was a perfect storm? 

Clint - I totally get where you're coming from and I appreciate your fair critique of where we stand. 

I suppose we'll never know the answer to your last question. Regarding last season, personally, I think he had a bit of luck in how perfectly suited Pukki was but I actually think we were pretty unlucky in lots of games too! In most matches we won because other teams couldn't live with our possession game (it exhausted them) and our focus / unity. I would credit Farke a lot for those things because he was prioritising that from day one.

 

I wouldn't 'blame' Farke at all for this season's disappointing points tally. I don't know what else he could've done with the cards he has.

He's tried to be patient, consistent and sticking to principles.

He's tried shaking things up, trying different formations and players.

In the end I just console myself with the thought that he's building something long term and we (hopefully) have him next season to keep on that road.

Edited June 24, 2020 by Cantiaci Canary

[non-scoring strikers 113]

2 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

We shouldn't chuck the baby out with the bathwater. 

Farke has been out of his depth this season, that's for sure, but he's young and learning, just like our players. Hopefully back in the Championship he'll be able to build another side the one we had last year and go again.

Learning? He's been here 3 years and not learnt a thing. At least not applied it, anyhow. 

[canarydan23 4,060]

15 minutes ago, Ian said:

Christ.

Yes? 

[Ian 1,129]

1 minute ago, canarydan23 said:

Yes? 

Let me guess, you're going to want a meet-up at the pearly gates?

[PurpleCanary 5,561]

32 minutes ago, hogesar said:

According to @TeemuVanBasten there is no project, or plan, but then again he does have a habit of missing things.

That after I had typed that news broke that we are on the verge of signing yet another apparently talented teenager might suggest there is some kind of project and plan...🤓

[canarydan23 4,060]

12 minutes ago, Ian said:

Let me guess, you're going to want a meet-up at the pearly gates?

Not with you. You might dribble on me. 

[Ian 1,129]

1 minute ago, canarydan23 said:

Not with you. You might dribble on me. 

Poor effort, but it's late and  I'm guessing the long-term furlough has probably dulled your senses.  I won't hold it against you.

[canarydan23 4,060]

1 minute ago, Ian said:

Poor effort, but it's late and  I'm guessing the long-term furlough has probably dulled your senses.  I won't hold it against you.

I know exactly what you want to hold against me and it just ain't gonna happen I'm afraid. 

[ged in the onion bag 855]

2 hours ago, Clint said:

Elaborate Hogesar. Maybe you can enlighten me as to what Farke has done well this season? 

 

Got us in the EPL.    Enough for me.   Plenty of mistakes, poor player selections, injuries and players failing to step up!   But he got us there, don’t forget that and no doubt you cheered loud like everyone else when we beat Blackburn.   We had little luck and however you dress it, he is a new young manager learning a trade in a ruthless league.

We can’t even select a defender in a 9-man subs bench.    We would all do things differently, but 90% of posters on here haven’t got the slightest idea of the complexities of football at this level.   
 

Increased the value of the squad.   
Earned the club millions to continue the development.... brought Cantwell through, Idah and Martin too.    

[Alex Moss 2,165]

15 hours ago, Clint said:

I really don’t see the benefit in persisting. It’s the same mistakes tonight that’s we’re happening three years ago in the championship....

Zonal marking, which is particularly hopeless in a struggling side as no one wants to take responsibility for anything.

Conceding goals either shortly before or shortly after half time. Down to a lack of focus.

Lack of in-game management. We all know the deal with this so I won’t go into it. I do find the approach of doing nothing until we’re losing and then bring on every attacking player you have with 20 mins left particularly annoying. It’s not championship manager. 

The appalling set-pieces from us. How often have we scored, minus Vrancic, who sits on the bench every match.

Its just so many of the same problems. I don’t see what the point in giving him next season would do as he’s clearly so far out of his depth at this level it’s unbelievable. 

Keane has just said that they changed tactics at half time, just as Southampton did Friday night. What do we honestly hope to achieve with Farke in charge? 

 

 

To answer your question.

Some sort of transfer kitty would have been nice.

The bloke has worked absolute miracles on sweet FA!  I’m not sure any manager in our history has had so little to work with relative for their time. And now the fickle want him gone.

Lets go back 13 or 14 months...

I thought the general consensus by probably 90+% when we got promoted was that we would have little money to spend and the likelihood was that we’d be relegated banking a seasons worth of Premier League takings. Another season in the Championship and an assault for promotion again where we’d be in a lot better place to maintain a PL spot. It’s called 1 step back for 2 steps forward, the self sufficient model. We all knew this was likely to happen, Webber and Farke couldn’t have been any clearer about this. I still maintain that without all those injuries we’d be in a healthier position today and this thread would be completely irrelevant.

[ricardo 7,395]

4 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

I still maintain that without all those injuries we’d be in a healthier position today and this thread would be completely irrelevant.

This

A disappointing  season but not entirely unexpected.

Farke is in no danger of getting the push in my opinion.

 

[Bonzo 198]

Keep Farke. He's been great for us. The model works and our club will be better off relatively to almost every other Championship side.

That said Farke isn't Superman. He could improve some of what he's been doing.

For me signing a new defensive coach may be a possible solution. Our Central midfield isn't working well as a defensive shield and zonal marking still isn't working and doesn't work for so many reasons that it must be time to call for a change in our defensive tactics in this area. 

What is crucial now is that we keep the basis for our model and seek to fix the problems with it rather than abandon the model and rebuild entirely from scratch with a new manager and wholesale changes in personnel. Keep calm and carry on.