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5 minutes ago, Herman said:

I hate to break it to you but well over 36 thousand have died with action, belated or not. If we had carried on the way we were going then I don't think his figures would have been that far wrong. 

So you're saying Boris and the government have made all the right decisions where the virus is concerned, yes?

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Why are we taking this thread down the Brexit line! It’s ****e!

Boris is a bumbling idiot who shouldn’t be PM, he’s only there because everybody else saw the poison challis Brexit was!

As for this crisis, I’m sure in hindsight things could have been done differently to maybe save more lives, but at what financial cost?

This was an event of a century and wasn’t one which anybody took seriously till it hit! Pretty much every country has suffered especially the ones with large conurbations, older vulnerable age groups.

Lets stay on thread and leave the political finger pointing till this is over, or take it to the Brexit thread.

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

I might jump to the conclusion that you don't actually have any good reasons, just a blind faith in the government  🙄

You said "the priority was not save lives but to avoid the embarassment of the NHS being overwhelmed."

I said that I see no evidence that they prioritized saving embarrassment over saving lives.  

You say that I have given no reason for my belief but I I need not reach for elaborate tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theories to support my belief as I am quite prepared to believe that the  government's real reason for "protecting the NHS" is the one they have published in the strategy.

the fact is we can both wrote all the essays we like but neither of us know.

I dont have blind faith in this government and have given criticism where i think it is due. Have you provided any praise yet?

Edited by Barbe bleu

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1 hour ago, ricardo said:

I predict there will be no Cummings and Goings😉

I read or punctuated that as 

No Cummings,    and Goings.

I think he's toast as SKS would likely prefer Johnson with a gangrenous right hand man to poke at every opportunity for fun than just Johnson .. ( or do I mean Dom...whoever.the PM is).

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4 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Failed at the first hurdle Jools. He (the top scientist) went nowhere. 

As for Cummings. He's toast. No way the Government can allow a very public expression of "different rules" for anyone other than at the PM himself and maybe Cabinet Ministers. 

He deliberately broke rules he was fully aware of. He knew that he'd tested positive. So he decided he'd ignore the self-quarantine and drive himself and family to his parents. 

As this brings into question the fines those who have been deemed to have been'  breaking the rules'

Likewise it brings into question his wife's (Mary Wakefield) account in the Spectator of what they were doing at that time.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8249237/Dominic-Cummings-lifts-lid-isolation-wife-young-son-ill-coronavirus.html

so let's hope that for Cummings sake he is not on the end of similar self righteous Tory wind baggery as with Ferguson

and

"On the same evening, Scotland’s chief medical officer, Catherine Calderwood, was forced to resign after she was photographed visiting her second home in Fife."

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Herman said:

No. 

So you agree with Neil (pantsdown) Ferguson's advice to Boris and the government, but you don't agree that the latter should've followed that advice...

****  😀

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Posted (edited)

The (deflection) force is strong with this one.  Still it's the standard MO anytime bad news comes along....

 

Jools - watch up - this is a very polite, but brutal takedown. Of course the Government will try the initial come on of "he was actually acting within the rules" but he very clearly wasn't. 

 

Edited by Surfer
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5 minutes ago, Surfer said:

The (deflection) force is strong with this one.  

 

Still it's the standard MO anytime bad news comes along....

Its pure desperation. Sad really.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Surfer said:

The (deflection) force is strong with this one.  

 

Still it's the standard MO anytime bad news comes along....

Let’s hope that, for all our sakes, Johnson does not attempt another 'clarification', as with the previous Sunday night's ramble 🙄

Edited by Bill

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20 minutes ago, Surfer said:

The (deflection) force is strong with this one.  Still it's the standard MO anytime bad news comes along....

 

Jools - watch up - this is a very polite, but brutal takedown. Of course the Government will try the initial come on of "he was actually acting within the rules" but he very clearly wasn't. 

 

Christ alive, Serfdom! I'm a straight up, common sense Right-winger --- As if I'm ever going to be compatible with the Marxist BBC!

Cummings can remain, resign, get fired or get hanged in Felbrigg woods...

I'll still be a straight up, common sense Right-winger.

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13 minutes ago, Jools said:

Cummings can remain, resign, get fired or get hanged in Felbrigg woods...I'll still be a straight up, common sense Right-winger.

OK, in that case we'll just carry on alone with our unelected hypocrite hunt. 

 

Remember there have already been other senior figures involved in tackling the pandemic who have had to resign for breaching lockdown restrictions - Scotland's Former Chief Medical Officer Catherine Calderwood and a leading scientist Professor Neil Ferguson, who was advising the government.

A source close to Dominic Cummings is insistent that he didn't break the rules.

But for those at the top to be perceived to even be stretching the rules is damaging. Along with triggering accusations of hypocrisy, it risks prompting people to question why they should be following the rules, if those involved in imposing them are not.

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If Johnson comes out and defends Cummings you can bet that he will change his mind the next day.- or in reality, be told to

So to see in advance what Johnson (Clunk) will say

 

 

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1 minute ago, Bill said:

If Johnson comes out and defends Cummings you can bet that he will change his mind the next day.- or in reality, be told to

It may depend on how the Sunday papers treat this excuse ---

A source close to Dominic Cummings is insistent that he didn't break the rules.

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"My husband did rush home to look after me. He’s an extremely kind man, whatever people assume to the contrary. But 24 hours later, he said ‘I feel weird’ and collapsed. I felt breathless, sometimes achy, but Dom couldn’t get out of bed. Day in, day out for ten days he lay doggo with a high fever and spasms that made the muscles lump and twitch in his legs. He could breathe, but only in a limited, shallow way."

Whereas we now know that it was a blatant lie - unless he has a car with a bed in it 😂

"The article goes on: “Just as Dom was beginning to feel better ... Boris was heading in the other direction, into hospital.” This was the evening when Cummings was first seen near Durham with the child. On the same evening, Scotland’s chief medical officer, Catherine Calderwood, was forced to resign after she was photographed visiting her second home in Fife."

Both Calderwood and Ferguson resigned when it was revealed that they had broken lock down rules. Neither were infected with the virus. Both Cummings and his wife were.

And there is the above matter of his wife lying to supposedly cover up where they had been. Not some one off reply to a question, but written words in a magazine that both knew would be published in the public eye.

Where then any trust or integrity in either ?

 

 

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Unless Cummings does the honorable thing, or is fired in the morning, Starmer is going to have an absolute field day with this one... deliberate flouting of rules he participated in creating, deceiving national media and ministers via deliberate lying to cover it up, it's this kind of scandal that brings down entire governments. Boris's precious Brexit will be on the line if they don't dump Cummings - why would anyone - the public, businesses, courts, trading partners - believe anything ministers say again if they let this go? 

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7 hours ago, Bill said:

Let’s hope that, for all our sakes, Johnson does not attempt another 'clarification', as with the previous Sunday night's ramble 🙄

This one ? 

 

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On 21/05/2020 at 21:23, Barbe bleu said:

If PMQs really is the best scrutiny of a highly technical matter where there can be no argumemt as to the desired end state (no disease, minimum deaths) then god help us.

I'm not quite arguing against PMQs in general but if it involves equations it probably isnt best dealt with by Buttons and Widow Twanky (or worse or by wily coyote and road runner spending all their time setting and avoiding traps), no matter how much law or latin they were taught at school.

 

Well earlier you made the rather sweeping assertion that 'If a policy is bad it can be shown to be bad under any form of scrutiny' and yet you continue to argue against the one form of scrutiny that has demonstrably been effective whilst not offering a single suggestion as to any other form of scrutiny available in our Parliamentary tool kit that would be more effective.

Which rather tends to the conclusion that you're simply not much in favour of Parliament scrutinising and holding the government of the day to account - which is quite a big issue at any time and whoever is in government but at the moment.......😲

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8 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

You said "the priority was not save lives but to avoid the embarassment of the NHS being overwhelmed."

I said that I see no evidence that they prioritized saving embarrassment over saving lives.  

You say that I have given no reason for my belief but I I need not reach for elaborate tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theories to support my belief as I am quite prepared to believe that the  government's real reason for "protecting the NHS" is the one they have published in the strategy.

the fact is we can both wrote all the essays we like but neither of us know.

I dont have blind faith in this government and have given criticism where i think it is due. Have you provided any praise yet?

This is where we came in then - when BigFish pointed out that you hadn't been paying attention, which clearly you haven't.

As to the question about praise given the answer is yes, I have where I thought it was due, i.e. in some of the economic measures taken to protect jobs and businesses. Presumably you weren't paying attention then either.

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Posted (edited)

A rare visit to this thread for me but I couldn't resist it having just spoken to a fellow dog walker about the Cummings issue. He is of the view that it should be illegal to challenge anything that the Government does in the present circumstances. He thinks it's unbritish. It truly felt like I was talking to a member of a cult. 

What really frightened me was his assertion that Keir Starmer is 'a bit too clever for his own good'. Apparently having a clever person in charge of the country wouldn't do at all...... 

How on earth did it come to this? 

Edited by dylanisabaddog
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Well that's a bit depressing. And I can tell you he is not alone in his mentality. A scary outlook on life.

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Anybody snitched on their neighbours this morning?😁

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8 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Anybody snitched on their neighbours this morning?😁

Not yet mate. Number 13 has been to Coop once already this morning. I don't recognise that girl that's just visited 19.And 3, 7 and 9's bins are nearing over capacity. And with three more days to collection......

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25 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Anybody snitched on their neighbours this morning?😁

I did, my wife thought it was a bit harsh as my neighbour only came round to drop off some homemade tiramisu, but she did overstep my painted 2.2  metre lines( extra 10% for extra safety). I said " I'd do the same again even if it wasnt my daughter next time".....some people eh? Rules is rules, family or not.

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16 minutes ago, Herman said:

Not yet mate. Number 13 has been to Coop once already this morning. I don't recognise that girl that's just visited 19.And 3, 7 and 9's bins are nearing over capacity. And with three more days to collection......

A timely reminder that we live in a country of twitching curtains.

 

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9 hours ago, Jools said:

I'll still be a straight up, common sense Right-winger.

Alexa, please give me an example of an oxymoron.

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If you tolerate Brexit then a mismanaged pandemic will be next. 

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As many people can jump to the defence of Boris or Cummings as they like but the facts are facts. And to make points to the extent that SKS should not be questioning anything that happens seems to indicate that some would be happy with a one party nation, as long as it was the Tories.

 

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"As long as the general population is passive, apathetic, diverted to consumerism or hatred of the vulnerable, then the powerful can do as they please"

(Chomsky)

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