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I think the pictures of the crowded parks, beaches etc are what did this. 

You just say the advice was ambiguous but I cannot see that it was.  It is completely clear to me that the advice was stay inside don't socialise and keep your distance.  Thousands failed to do this, and worse  knowingly failed.

At the moment it seems that there are no laws in place to enforce this instruction but I guess they will come.

 

Hopefully the graphs of the last few days will continue as opposed to rise 

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8 minutes ago, Aggy said:

Fairly sad state of affairs if people needed the threat of a fine to realise they shouldn’t have been out socialising this weekend. 

It was quite clear to the large majority of the population what Boris was saying. In fact, I’d go as far as to say it was quite clear to the whole population, but thousands of people decided not to bother listening to it. It’s not blood on the PM’s hands, it’s a PM trying to give people a chance to show they don’t need draconian measures to do what’s best for the community. Unfortunately, it’s evidently clear they do.

****. He didn't lock down schools soon enough, he pursued a policy of herd immunity despite the WHO saying it was nonsensensical, he gave vague, bumbling statements that made people think they weren't really at risk if they were under 70 and it didn't really matter, even today, we have people on this very thread not clear on whether to go to work tomorrow or not because of his ambiguous ramblings. People needed to be told, in no uncertain terms that this was an emergency situation and they would be killing people if they didn't follow the instructions given (instructions being different to "advice"). He didn't do that, he failed to lead. He said business as usual but stand 2 metres apart.

He's been an utter shower, and we are still less locked down than most other countries.

This isn't an anti-Tory rant - Whilst I'm not fawning over Rishi Sunak, I actually think he's taken sensible and appropriate action, and he's done that in a timely manner, Boris has been an embarassment, and if anyone is pleased with his leadership then they ahve little cognisence of what every other country in the world has been doing. Italy has the most deaths - we are on that path despite having weeks longer to prepare... and you think that is the measure of someone who has led well? Blows my mind.

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Aggy said:

Fairly sad state of affairs if people needed the threat of a fine to realise they shouldn’t have been out socialising this weekend. 

It was quite clear to the large majority of the population what Boris was saying. In fact, I’d go as far as to say it was quite clear to the whole population, but thousands of people decided not to bother listening to it. It’s not blood on the PM’s hands, it’s a PM trying to give people a chance to show they don’t need draconian measures to do what’s best for the community. Unfortunately, it’s evidently clear they do.

Not sure I agree with that, Aggy. People being people, some (many?) were bound to flout what was only a plea to their good sense rather than a direct and enforceable order. Even now it is not clear how far this more draconian message will be enforced.

I cannot find the figures now but I read today that a great many on the spot fines have already been issued in France, where you apparently have to have a form with you explaining why you are justified in being outdoors. No form equals automatic fine. And drones and helicopters are being used to track people down.

.PS. Just seen kio’s latest post. I go along with that.

Edited by PurpleCanary
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Just now, PurpleCanary said:

Not sure I agree with that, Aggy. People being people, some (many?) were bound to flout what was only a plea to their good sense rather than a direct and enforceable order. Even now it is not clear how far this more draconian message will be enforced.

I cannot find the figures now but I read today that a great many on the spot fines have already been issued in France, where you apparently have to have a form with you explaining why you are justified in being outdoors. No form equals automatic fine. And drones and helicopters are being used to track people down.

.

If they’ve handed out a lot of fines, there must be a lot of people still outside. 

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1 hour ago, Indy said:

That’s fair comment Bill, but as I’ve worked offshore then abroad now here as self employed own my own business but have paid massive amounts of tax in my lifetime, I’ve had to manage my own pension as every few years my age group goes out further for state pension, now I’ve got very low work requirements as price of oil has bombed and future contracts on hold. I’m not entitled to any help under the current government and I’ve lost massive amount in my pension......yes from a personal point of view I’m not really happy with the way this has hit me and I’m certainly not happy to then fund the future NHS with any additional tax when others like pensioners as you correctly say are in some areas better off than the employed.

I think it’s time for everyone to pull together now then all taxed the same to including those on pensions to contribute to fund the NHS.

If you hsve a few moments

' Half of England is owned by less than 1% of its population '

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/apr/17/who-owns-england-thousand-secret-landowners-author

Only 1% of pupils at charity exempt schools were educated free

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/16/private-schools-charitable-status-strip-benefits

that is merely scratching the surface of how assets are misueds. Charirities set up ti educate the poor have long been misappropriated. Land that is only sold off in small parcels to ensure the price remains astronomically high - to whose benefit ?

We don't question why Oxford and Canbs university hold assets worth £21bn - who benefits from them, and why does the government award them grants of hundreds of thousands that are not always used for the purpose stated.

Any wonder why the wealthy and the real 'establishment' spend so much via the media in filling empty heads with so much misinformation about who is the cause of their woes.

 

Neither Ethiopia (1984) or Ireland (1850s) faced starvation from lack of food - they were actually net exporters of food. They lacked any control over what they produced. Go to war to fight for your country, your land. Only it isn't your land, and as each year passes more commonly hels land, scoool playing fields, car parks, sports fields are being taken off you. Your house that are built are getting smaller as are the gardes, but mpre expensive

 

Check out this site to see who is poncing the most https://farmsubsidy.org/GB/

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Indy said:

That’s fair comment Bill, but as I’ve worked offshore then abroad now here as self employed own my own business but have paid massive amounts of tax in my lifetime, I’ve had to manage my own pension as every few years my age group goes out further for state pension, now I’ve got very low work requirements as price of oil has bombed and future contracts on hold. I’m not entitled to any help under the current government and I’ve lost massive amount in my pension......yes from a personal point of view I’m not really happy with the way this has hit me and I’m certainly not happy to then fund the future NHS with any additional tax when others like pensioners as you correctly say are in some areas better off than the employed.

I think it’s time for everyone to pull together now then all taxed the same to including those on pensions to contribute to fund the NHS.

If you hsve a few moments

' Half of England is owned by less than 1% of its population '

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/apr/17/who-owns-england-thousand-secret-landowners-author

Only 1% of pupils at charity exempt schools were educated free

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/16/private-schools-charitable-status-strip-benefits

that is merely scratching the surface of how assets are misueds. Charirities set up ti educate the poor have long been misappropriated. Land that is only sold off in small parcels to ensure the price remains astronomically high - to whose benefit ?

We don't question why Oxford and Canbs university hold assets worth £21bn - who benefits from them, and why does the government award them grants of hundreds of thousands that are not always used for the purpose stated.

Any wonder why the wealthy and the real 'establishment' spend so much via the media in filling empty heads with so much misinformation about who is the cause of their woes.

 

Neither Ethiopia (1984) or Ireland (1850s) faced starvation from lack of food - they were actually net exporters of food. They lacked any control over what they produced. Go to war to fight for your country, your land. Only it isn't your land, and as each year passes more commonly hels land, scoool playing fields, car parks, sports fields are being taken off you. Your house that are built are getting smaller as are the gardes, but mpre expensive

 

Check out this site to see who is poncing the most https://farmsubsidy.org/GB/

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

I think the pictures of the crowded parks, beaches etc are what did this. 

You just say the advice was ambiguous but I cannot see that it was.  It is completely clear to me that the advice was stay inside don't socialise and keep your distance.  Thousands failed to do this, and worse  knowingly failed.

At the moment it seems that there are no laws in place to enforce this instruction but I guess they will come.

 

Hopefully the graphs of the last few days will continue as opposed to rise 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/23/europe-views-uk-coronavirus-plan-disbelief

That's a good article about what you've mentioned. He uses the term 'cultural or national superiority' to explain why the UK and the US have reacted so badly to Covid 19. Is it arrogance or just a lack of understanding of how serious the situation could become? 

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9 hours ago, FenwayFrank said:

Herman, that sounds like you work in the food chain which makes you a key worker so yes, go to work I would think 

Ornamental plants rather than edible so definitely not an essential worker. We'll see what happens but I doubt I'd get any special dispensations. 

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22 minutes ago, Herman said:

Ornamental plants rather than edible so definitely not an essential worker. We'll see what happens but I doubt I'd get any special dispensations. 

Are there automatic watering systems?  

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23 minutes ago, Herman said:

Ornamental plants rather than edible so definitely not an essential worker. We'll see what happens but I doubt I'd get any special dispensations. 

Im in a similar boat over here Hermano , fortunately I do not need to have contact with either client or plant supplier this week anyway.  So I'll drive on to get this week done. I have arranged communication via email and payment via bank transfer. Its as much as I can do to carry on being productive but involving no one else. We have been practising socialisolation for two weeks already. Starting to get usedto it now.

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3 hours ago, Yellow and Green said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/23/europe-views-uk-coronavirus-plan-disbelief

That's a good article about what you've mentioned. He uses the term 'cultural or national superiority' to explain why the UK and the US have reacted so badly to Covid 19. Is it arrogance or just a lack of understanding of how serious the situation could become? 

A bit of both I fear. The worst mix of arrogance and ignorance.

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12 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Are there automatic watering systems?  

Parts of it are, but need repair for winter damage. My area isn't. The place is large so isolation is not a problem.

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29 minutes ago, Herman said:

Parts of it are, but need repair for winter damage. My area isn't. The place is large so isolation is not a problem.

If you can’t work from home then I think you are ok

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My problem with the Government’s strategy is that it doesn’t seem to me to factor in the risks we face properly. Asking people nicely not to do something is fine where the consequences of them ignoring it are minor. But that’s not what we are facing, and that’s been clear for a while if you looked at the experiences of other countries. If the risks and consequences are large then it seems sensible to take actions which factor that in.

Buying masks and test kits as early as possible and bringing in rules to ensure the disease can’t spread and enforcing them if you need to, seem to me to be fairly obvious and this has been the approach of many (but not all) other countries. We took a different path and as a result may have a different outcome; it may be better it may be worse, time will tell.

So my question is why take that risk? Was preserving personal freedom and the economy for a bit longer worth the extra fatalities that may arise as a result? That does seem to me to be a political question. Like everything in politics there is no right or wrong answer to this, just different views which largely seem to depend upon on where you sit on those timeless questions around people v money and central government v individual freedoms. 

Boris is obviously a risk taker, more so than his predecessor and that seemed to be one of the things that appealed to the voters so perhaps his approach should come as no surprise even when the stakes are so high.

 

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Aggy said:

If they’ve handed out a lot of fines, there must be a lot of people still outside. 

Touché Aggy! I can't find the stats now, apart from 4,000 fines handed out on the first day. Perhaps the measures took a day or two to have an effect. But the general point is that the initial French lockdown seems to have been very explicit in terms of when people could be outdoors and with a plan to police  it - 100,000 gendarmes allocated to the task and roadblocks on major roads, with residents having to have a form printed out.

Even now in the UK Johnson's second lockdown statement doesn't seem to include a specific plan for policing the now tougher measures.

Edited by PurpleCanary

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Spare a thought for fans of Newcastle United. Their disgusting owner is now furiously backtracking on his plan to keep Sports Direct. Too little to late I fear. 

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Prepare for the Baby Boom.......a new generation of Boomers about to be conceived 

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1 minute ago, Van wink said:

Prepare for the Baby Boom.......a new generation of Boomers about to be conceived 

Quite difficult if you have to stay 2 metres apart.

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2 hours ago, Herman said:

Ornamental plants rather than edible so definitely not an essential worker. We'll see what happens but I doubt I'd get any special dispensations. 

Canabis farmer? 

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2 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Only to those not in your household!

Potential room for dodgy remarks here

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10 minutes ago, Uncle Fred said:

Lovely to see Wayne Rooney’s son home schooling him 

5194D6CF-B67C-4279-B555-3076B12CC12B.jpeg

That pen structure behind them does seem to be taking social isolation a bit too far though 😬

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2 hours ago, Herman said:

Ornamental plants rather than edible so definitely not an essential worker. We'll see what happens but I doubt I'd get any special dispensations. 

"Little Shop of Horrors"......"Feed me....Feed me Now!".......

image.jpeg.1a259c0939c423b3bba5d9a5a76e676d.jpeg Herman and Audrey 2..... 🥀🌷

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4 minutes ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

No sweat for Errol Flynn....😀

...and John Holmes.....

28 minutes ago, Barry Brockes said:

Wonder what he's teaching Wayne? 

"Ok Daddy....G...R...A...N...N...Y....spells what?......

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11 minutes ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

No sweat for Errol Flynn....😀

Sting has been practiicing this for decades anyway

 

 

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