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Stiepermann

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Fair to say a tad disappointing so far?

Is the PL a step too far for him, or can he come good?

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I think all the players are still adjusting to the PL.  Stiepermann has had several good shooting opportunities and has yet to get off the mark with goals this season, as has Emi. They will both get goals as the season progresses and Cantwell, who has scored a couple will learn to not give the ball away so much......in other words they are all learning and adjusting.  

Stiepermann is still an important player for us - his link up play is there and his through balls for Pukki have been there several times this season already.  So I wouldn't write him off - or any of them off - too early in the season with the team in tenth place only three points ahead of us. Long way to go, plenty of time to see improvements in all the players....

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He has looked lackadaisical and a bit too casual for me.

Think if he could just up the tempo, whilst taking more care, he'll be more effective.

With regards his shooting he seems to be focusing on placement rather than power.

Definitely needs to give more whelly.

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Being brutally honest, last season I've never known a player so fortunate when it came to shooting from range. Several of his goals were from kicks he hadn't caught cleanly or goalkeepers making errors of judgement either with their positioning or initial movement.

Notwithstanding the fact that we are now up against vastly superior defenders, the step up in the quality of goalkeeping was always going to significantly reduce Stiepermann's goal threat.

That said, what he brings to the team is far, far more important than a goal threat. Whilst playing behind the striker in the Championship meant he really did need to chip in with a few himself, there is less of a burden on him in a Premier League survival battle and his link with Pukki is much more important.

I agree he has been disappointing this season, Man City notwithstanding and there were times he was frustrating last season; however, I fear he is one of these players who you notice more by their absence than when he is on the pitch. I don't see another player in our squad who can do the job he does in his almost unique number 10 role. If Onel was fit or Patrick Roberts can come good, I would be tempted to give Cantwell a run in his position, though it's a big, big risk.

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I think Stiepermann is definitely one of these players who are missed more noticeably when there not playing.

His link up with Pukki and ability to get 20 yards further up the pitch is key to how we play.  Hopefully he can adapt and start scoring goals as I think we're too lightweight particularly away from home without him in the team to hold the ball up. 

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Our best period against Burnley in the first half came from Stiepermann picking up some very good positions in between the lines and turning and running with the ball. His link up with Pukki is always generally good. He's been a bit on and off this season but generally think we're much better with him than without him.

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Our good period on Saturday came during a spell where we regularly got him on the ball in that space between their midfield and defence. I felt it was a mistake to take him off for Drmic as we lost that attacking threat and shape. I thought that was a poor decision from Farke.  Roberts may have been a better replacement if we felt we needed to take Stiepermann off. Its a tricky one as he's not really delivering in terms of end product so far but if you look back at most of our best spells of play and attacking moves he is heavily involved in them. 

As we need to win on Saturday and as I would personally make changes in midfield and defence to push Amadou forward I would be inclined to stick with him so as not to change too much. 

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Without Stiepermanns height, power and physical strength we would be struggling even more. EPL players are much more powerful and that to me is where we struggle especially away from home.

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Essential to how the team plays and the majority of our good attacking play links through him. He’s been fine in a difficult situation 

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8 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Without Stiepermanns height, power and physical strength we would be struggling even more. EPL players are much more powerful and that to me is where we struggle especially away from home.

Agree with this. We look a small team across the pitch and at times are brushed aside too easily 

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He has been mainly ineffective in most departments to date. I appreciate his height and presence are needed at times, but in my opinion a Buendia/Roberts/Cantwell mix would be more dynamic and quicker on the break.

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Posted (edited)

Stiepermann is contributing a lot to the team in his work rate and bringing others into play. He is always working and gets involved in nearly every attack, he never hides, and his physical presence is important because he's the only forward player we have with any size. This gives the more talented forwards room to play.

However, his use of the ball has been very poor so far this season. He's made a couple of important passes, particularly in the Man City game, but more often than not his final ball or his shooting has been pretty dreadful when in good positions. 

I wouldn't drop him yet, but he has to start making better use of the ball.

Edited by Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man

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1 hour ago, canarydan23 said:

Being brutally honest, last season I've never known a player so fortunate when it came to shooting from range. Several of his goals were from kicks he hadn't caught cleanly or goalkeepers making errors of judgement either with their positioning or initial movement.

 

Fortunate? Rubbish.  Have a look at this montage. The only one a goalkeeper could be criticised for was the first one. The other goals were either class strikes or good team goals.  His strength is in the power he hits the ball along the ground - the most difficult kind of shot for a goallkeeper to get down too - and the mazy run and goal and the long curling shot were simply excellent.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, jaberry2 said:

He has been mainly ineffective in most departments to date

Apart from involvement in goals obviously, I’d say that’s pretty important.

 

The pass to Buendia for the cross for Pukkis first vs Newcastle

The through ball for Cantwell that leads to Pukkis 3rd vs Newcastle

The through ball for Pukki that lead to Cantwells goal vs Man City

 

The nonsense being made up is just simple, uninformed and sadly all too predictable.

 

(and LDC, you beat me to posting that video)

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Posted (edited)

This is not a Steipermann bashing contest, I was just pointing out I don't think he has been that effective recently. But this is obviously a team game, so he is only as good as his teammates.

Edited by jaberry2

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I suspect he's suffering from a drop in confidence (in common with most of our players) simply because the opposition is so much better. Whereas before we could take on players & beat them with our razor sharp passing & movement we're now getting outmuscled & beaten for pace & physicality, which was my main worry for this season, even before the injuries.

All we can do is accept that what we do is going to be riskier & accept we'll lose the ball more than we'd like, then fight like hell to get it back. One of the players who seems to have retained his spirit is Jamal; I just pray his elbow's OK! Also Ben was making some barnstorming runs upfield & we must not be afraid to let him do that - when the opportunity arises.

Ultimately we've just got to go at it & try not to be disheartened. Same goes for us as supporters. Courage mes braves!

 

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The whole team with one exception is trying to play Farkeball.

The exception is Moritz Leitner, who appears to be playing with the sole intention of having as many touches as possible. His stats on Monday morning will have appeared good.

But he is actually killing the fluency of the team, and it destroys players who show early for the ball, including Steipermann, Emi etc. Their early runs just take them out of the game if they don't receive the ball.

So, Steipermann has not started the season well, but I think the reason why is not all down to him. Daniel MUST know this and I am sure he will rectify it as soon as he can.

 

 

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It is a fair question.

However, for my part he never hides away from the action and always puts himself as a willing receiver of the ball. I think he is superb, but as has been mentioned he is probably a confidence type player who will improve as the season unfolds. 

We certainly have not seen his best yet (Man city apart) and it would be great for him to stamp his authority over the pitch on Saturday.

Can't wait 

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3 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

Our good period on Saturday came during a spell where we regularly got him on the ball in that space between their midfield and defence. I felt it was a mistake to take him off for Drmic as we lost that attacking threat and shape. I thought that was a poor decision from Farke.  Roberts may have been a better replacement if we felt we needed to take Stiepermann off. Its a tricky one as he's not really delivering in terms of end product so far but if you look back at most of our best spells of play and attacking moves he is heavily involved in them. 

As we need to win on Saturday and as I would personally make changes in midfield and defence to push Amadou forward I would be inclined to stick with him so as not to change too much. 

Not sure the reason Stiepermann was taken off on Saturday. It was a bit early for Farke. Especially as he'd had an enforced substitution earlier. So he may have been carrying an injury and was only ever going to be given 60 mins. He had just been booked too but not sure that was be relevant.

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I think Marco's form is not about him but our ability to get those around in space to put him further up the pitch. We are playing better teams.

His is short on pace and that won't improve so we need to get him so he can turn and run at people which is his strength.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Pugin said:

The whole team with one exception is trying to play Farkeball.

The exception is Moritz Leitner, who appears to be playing with the sole intention of having as many touches as possible. His stats on Monday morning will have appeared good.

But he is actually killing the fluency of the team, and it destroys players who show early for the ball, including Steipermann, Emi etc. Their early runs just take them out of the game if they don't receive the ball.

So, Steipermann has not started the season well, but I think the reason why is not all down to him. Daniel MUST know this and I am sure he will rectify it as soon as he can.

 

 

Interesting observation. I like Leitner, but sometimes quality technique and a touch of class can overshadow the players actual impact on a teams dynamic. This is an argument I've had with regard to Cantwell. Looks great, and clearly a talented footballer. But overall impact on the side and ultimate result, I feel can be questioned. Especially if you compare this against a player such as Hernandez. Not as pretty on the ball, but really direct and gives defenders problems. This creates a dynamic that improves other players games and the team as a whole. I think Vrancic is similar in this regard, and to some extent Steipermann. 

Of course this is a hard argument to have. Especially if said player scores a goal or two or has assist, like Cantwell. But I do understand your point and think there is something in it. Even if I'd be disappointed to see Leitner dropped. 

Edited by Il Pirata
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No issue discussing steipermanns perfomance so far

 

I would agree he hasn't his last season's level or consistency.  As other have pointed out when the team has been good he has played his part.  

 

One of the challenges is who to replace him with, mario, onel, are injured.  For me the options are Kenny or Roberts, with a preference for kenny, he has some of the physicality steipi brings. Roberts is simply a different player that the attacking three and still clearly getting to grips with our attacking triangles.  

 

I am probably still in the start him but sub earlier mindset.

 

If we were to make a change I would limit it to Hanley for Kenny or steipi.

 

Either way I will go with what farke selects

 

 

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I would start him Saturday but be prepared to take him off and move Todd up and bring on Roberts.

I am sure we will be confident that Villa haven't got any better than last season despite all their additions. I would like to think we will be the better team from the start in this game.

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3 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Fortunate? Rubbish.  Have a look at this montage. The only one a goalkeeper could be criticised for was the first one. The other goals were either class strikes or good team goals.  His strength is in the power he hits the ball along the ground - the most difficult kind of shot for a goallkeeper to get down too - and the mazy run and goal and the long curling shot were simply excellent.

 

 

The mazey run and long curling shot were indeed world class, but watch the video again LDC and try and imagine you are watching a player you don't know in a team you don't support.

The first one was indeed a goalkeeping howler. Four more of his goals saw him beat the keeper at the near post. A good shot, but ask anyone who has played in goal at a decent level whether they would have been happy letting those goals in and I can tell you the answer. Most Premier League goalkeepers won't be letting those in.

And the goal against Sheffield Weds was the exact one I had in mind when I mentioned the positioning and movement. Pause it on 3 minutes 14 seconds and you will see what I mean. Don't get me wrong, it's still a great strike and goal by Stiepermann, but how often will Premier League goalkeepers take up a position like that and leave a chasm between himself and what is effectively the near post? In fact, let me get the old snipping tool out...

 

image.png.0f179ba562af0e79cef01a350b8578c5.png

Look at the state of that. I would argue that that is a bigger goalkeeping howler than the first goal. What is he thinking?

You just don't get those opportunities as much in a league with keepers like Kepa, Allison, De Gea, Ederson et al. Hell, he seems to have turned it around this season but after forking out £10 plus million on him, even Angus Gunn couldn't cement the number 1 jersey at a Southampton that flirted with relegation last season.

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Undervalued, especially as his hold up play allows Pukki to move ahead of him like the ball to Pukki that made the second in the Man City game. He's frustrating and wasteful at times though more thank capable of pulling off the assist creating pass,  I also think we don't have anyone in the squad who can currently play that role in a more effective way.  

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I think Kenny could do a decent job in Steips position, he is one our best headers of the ball, has a good strike and pass in him and is physically robust, also a good tackler. Having said that I have no real complaints about Steips, a willing worker whose awkward style can cause occasional panic when he runs at defenders. We have no other player like him,  without DFs prior knowledge of his unorthodox abilites , would we have signed him? i can't imagine him being picked up by  scouts of other teams, though I'm sure that has now changed after a surprisingly effective season last year in the Championship. He's a one off alright. I can't think of a similar player tbh,  any suggestions?

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1 hour ago, canarydan23 said:

image.png.0f179ba562af0e79cef01a350b8578c5.png

Look at the state of that. I would argue that that is a bigger goalkeeping howler than the first goal. What is he thinking?

You just don't get those opportunities as much in a league with keepers like Kepa, Allison, De Gea, Ederson et al. Hell, he seems to have turned it around this season but after forking out £10 plus million on him, even Angus Gunn couldn't cement the number 1 jersey at a Southampton that flirted with relegation last season.

The freeze frame you show is just that - a freeze frame where the goalie has not "taken up a position" as you put it, he just taken a half step to the right so he can see what is going on in front of him and Stiepermann takes advantage with an early  stinging low shot. Do goalkeepers stand still? Of course not and they can be caught out at any level. 

Some of his other low shot goals were full of power along the ground, also taken first time with the goalies not having time to set themselves.  Goalies will be better in the PL but if our outfield play is as good as last season, he will get opportunities to score again - and will score. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

The freeze frame you show is just that - a freeze frame where the goalie has not "taken up a position" as you put it, he just taken a half step to the right so he can see what is going on in front of him and Stiepermann takes advantage with an early  stinging low shot. Do goalkeepers stand still? Of course not and they can be caught out at any level. 

Some of his other low shot goals were full of power along the ground, also taken first time with the goalies not having time to set themselves.  Goalies will be better in the PL but if our outfield play is as good as last season, he will get opportunities to score again - and will score. 

 

 

That's a prediction. I'd be very surprised if he gets more than three or four this season, for the reasons outlined. I'd love to be wrong. 

But that's fine, he doesn't necessarily need goals to contribute, so long as his play continues to create space and chances for Pukki and others. 

And that goalkeeper's position is ridiculous. The ball hits the back of the net about a foot from the dead centre of the goal. That shot should never have gone in, and probably never will in the Premier League. 

Edited by canarydan23

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1 hour ago, birchfest said:

Undervalued, especially as his hold up play allows Pukki to move ahead of him like the ball to Pukki that made the second in the Man City game. He's frustrating and wasteful at times though more thank capable of pulling off the assist creating pass,  I also think we don't have anyone in the squad who can currently play that role in a more effective way.  

Spot on 👍

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23 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

Being brutally honest, last season I've never known a player so fortunate when it came to shooting from range. Several of his goals were from kicks he hadn't caught cleanly or goalkeepers making errors of judgement either with their positioning or initial movement.

Notwithstanding the fact that we are now up against vastly superior defenders, the step up in the quality of goalkeeping was always going to significantly reduce Stiepermann's goal threat.

That said, what he brings to the team is far, far more important than a goal threat. Whilst playing behind the striker in the Championship meant he really did need to chip in with a few himself, there is less of a burden on him in a Premier League survival battle and his link with Pukki is much more important.

I agree he has been disappointing this season, Man City notwithstanding and there were times he was frustrating last season; however, I fear he is one of these players who you notice more by their absence than when he is on the pitch. I don't see another player in our squad who can do the job he does in his almost unique number 10 role. If Onel was fit or Patrick Roberts can come good, I would be tempted to give Cantwell a run in his position, though it's a big, big risk.

I still feel that Mario could replace him as he has good tackling skills and his distribution is probably the best in the team

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