Oliveira Sell or Keep in Jan?

[westcoastcanary 173]

[quote user="king canary"]Well I''m confused as to how he''s gone from the excellent striker we saw last season to the uncommitted trouble-maker people seem to think he is today.

I also do sort of agree with Jim- our fans do seem to have a low tolerance threshold for flair players while loving those who ''run around a bit'' and do some good social media. The amount of stick a talent like Redmond got vs the love for the nice but deeply average Elliot Bennett was a case in point.[/quote]Parma has repeatedly pointed out that there is always a cost/benefit calculation to be made in the case of any player. Flair is only one element in that calculation. It is as silly to place unqualified trust in "flair" as to dismiss it out of hand. And silly to try and excuse NO''s costly failures to do what the situation blatently calls for -- e.g. a simple, gilt-edged chance creating pass to the unmarked Hoolahan -- on the ground that he possesses flair.

[king canary 8,644]

All true, and all not things I''ve said.

My point is our fans often seem to value the trier over the doer. You only have to look at the stick talented players with the wrong ''body language'' get vs those who do a lot of running about but actually aren''t that great at football.

We saw it with Chris Martin, Steve Morison, Nathan Redmond, even Jacob Murphy. Players who have the talent to change games but fans got on their backs because they decided they were lazy or selfish.

Can we also agree that Parma''s word is not gospel? I like him and his posts are often very informative and interesting. However just saying ''Parma has said'' doesn''t make it gospel truth. His opinion is more informed than most but remains just an opinion.

[......and Smith must score. 1,554]

[quote user="lincoln canary Golden Coppel"]

Chris Martin has not got more ability than Oliveria!

Chris Martins attitude was blown out of all proportion too. A scuffle in Beccles got him pub watched sure, but professionally I didn''t think he ever did much wrong. Always gave his all for Norwich.

As for Oliveria, if its a personality clash with Farke, I''d rather Farke went and we found a manager who could motivate and get the best from him.[/quote]

[......and Smith must score. 1,554]

So Lincoln you''re saying that an individual player should hold sway over a team manager ? However bad the manager that''s barmy.When Oliviera threw his toys out of the pram at Fulham and despite all the " they''ve kissed and made up " guff coming out of Carrow Rd it was obvious that there was something seriously wrong there. Why had the player moved around so much in his career ?Players with '' attitude '' like him and Chris Martin are best shown the door asap.

[westcoastcanary 173]

Of course Parma''s word is not gospel. The points he makes stand or fall on their own merit, not because he said them. My reference to his having repeatedly made this point was exasperation at a valid and very relevant consideration being completely ignored. 

I don''t agree that my post had no application to what you said. I credit the general run of our fans with more appreciation than your criticism allows and see much criticism of the players you mention as based on a perception of the negative cost/benefit value of their contribution in too many games. Not all of course; I''ve no doubt some fans fit Jim''s and your description. 

[Lessingham Canary 108]

He will be gone in January, providing a club will pay what Norwich are asking for him..........

[Diane 500]

[quote user="Baldyboy"]It only makes sense to sell him if a good enough replacement can be found surely?

Or would people rather we have only Jerome and Watkins with only one league goal between them?[/quote]

Sell him for 6m, get a young hungry replacement in for 1m, use 2:5m to pay off debt o/s as at June 2017 and use 2:5m to upgrade Colney

That''s that sorted.

[Derby Canary 3]

[quote user="Diane"][quote user="Baldyboy"]It only makes sense to sell him if a good enough replacement can be found surely?

Or would people rather we have only Jerome and Watkins with only one league goal between them?[/quote]

Sell him for 6m, get a young hungry replacement in for 1m, use 2:5m to pay off debt o/s as at June 2017 and use 2:5m to upgrade Colney

That''s that sorted.

[/quote]

....and which deluded Manager do you think would find £6m for this injury prone shirker?

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

[quote user="......and Smith must score."]So Lincoln you''re saying that an individual player should hold sway over a team manager ? However bad the manager that''s barmy.When Oliviera threw his toys out of the pram at Fulham and despite all the " they''ve kissed and made up " guff coming out of Carrow Rd it was obvious that there was something seriously wrong there. Why had the player moved around so much in his career ?Players with '' attitude '' like him and Chris Martin are best shown the door asap.

[/quote]

Not in normal circumstances, no. But Farke is under pressure and it isn’t beyond the realm of possibility he gets fired before the seasons out.

So I’d rather we not get rid of players whilst Farkes future is uncertain.

And again, the chris Martin stuff is harsh IMO. He was always fully committed whilst he was at Norwich, and a big reason In our immediate bounce back from league one.

[Baldyboy 1]

If only it was that simple Diane, a replacement for a million? So that’s League 2 prices in today’s market isn’t it?

Amazing how in the Summer people were up in arms at the thought of Olive going to Swansea for 13 million! Now he’s trouble and should be drummed out of the club post haste!

Excellent 👍

[norfolkngood 1,172]

Chris Martin has not got more ability than Oliveria! Chris Martins attitude was blown out of all proportion too. A scuffle in Beccles got him pub watched sure, but professionally I didn''t think he ever did much wrong. Always gave his all for Norwich. As for Oliveria, if its a personality clash with Farke, I''d rather Farke went and we found a manager who could motivate and get the best from him.

i Like Chris Martin and would have him back over Nelson for his passion and drive

but one funny Story was he was banned by Glen Roeder ( no surprise ) from training for a week or two over something he had done and when he returned Roeder said what have you learnt by sitting at home Martin replied i am good at fifa !

[Capt. Pants 4,882]

I don''t think any of the players whom Farke inherited have done particularly well. Maddison possibly, Pinto possibly, but the rest don''t seem to have adapted well. Having said that I''d rather have the player than the money. Olive might just be the difference we need in some matches.

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="Baldyboy"]If only it was that simple Diane, a replacement for a million? So that’s League 2 prices in today’s market isn’t it?

Amazing how in the Summer people were up in arms at the thought of Olive going to Swansea for 13 million! Now he’s trouble and should be drummed out of the club post haste!

Excellent 👍[/quote]I think you mean carried awayIt''s remarkable what an unsubstantiated rumour can do to te not too bright

[kingsway 101]

["Feel The Force"]We’re not going to be relegated. Mid table at worst, which is about right for the current state of affairs.

You reckon!!?

I wouldn''t hold your breath!

Our current form is relegation form and our lack of formation and shape with little attacking impetus won''t get us many results!

[CDMullins 490]

Current attitude aside, I really don''t rate him.

Staggering the amount of stick RvW got compared to NO. His ego really doesn''t match his ego.

Nelson has scored only 40 league goals since making his debut in 2009.

I still maintain RvW could have been a real good poacher in the Championship.

[king canary 8,644]

@CDmullins

Why is that remotely staggering?

Ricky scored a grand total of one goal for us in 25 league games and cost us a record fee at the time.

Nelson has delivered 15 goals in 36 league games at less cost. Based on those numbers it would take Ricky 375 games to get the same amount of goals...

But yes, staggering he gets more criticism...

[ron obvious 1,698]

Oh yes, Rickyyyy''s got all the attributes to score hatfulls of goals for us in the Champs. ...

Speed, courage, determination, strength, creates chances out of no, or very little, service .... er ...

:-(

[Tetteys Jig 848]

To be fair, Ricky was in the prem. Oliveira had a similar record in the Prem I seem to see...

[ron obvious 1,698]

Yes, & I suspect RvW would have been even worse in the Champs. Basically he''s not suited to English football in any way, shape or form.

[CDMullins 490]

Because NO''s performances have been just as bad as RvW''s yet NO comes (or had until very recent) in for very little criticism.

Neson''s goals have come in the second tier of English football, I still wish RvW would have been given a year at Championship level.

Since RvW left us hes scored 27 in 39, in top divisons, NO as mustered up 15 in the second division.

[CDMullins 490]

And Nelson''s 15 goals was for a team who were joint top scorers,

Whereas RvW''s goal, was for a team who only scored 39 goals.

[toftwood 4]

Final word - sell him, attitude is everything and Oliveira''s is poor. He''s a bum!

[Making Plans 957]

Shouldn''t the question have been "Sell Him, Keep Him or Play To His Strengths"

[GJP 79]

Off form at the moment but Oliveira is just miles and miles better than RVW.

[Mello Yello 2,538]

I like and rate Oli, he''s a bit wayward/off key at the mo'' but I think he''s frustrated as much as we all are regarding our current ''predicament''..... Which I hope we will turn around rather sooner than later.....Webber we will, or Webber we won''t......That is the question.....?

[Fromage Frais 14]

Our business plan is to develop and sell for profit.

N O is a good player but is he pulling up trees?

I would sell for 7m + tbh.

If we were in the top 6 come Jan maybe I would have second thoughts but given the poor form what the hell.

[Making Plans 957]

[quote user="Fromage Frais"]Our business plan is to develop and sell for profit. [/quote]Most of our players only develop once they are sent out on loan. Why is that?

[Baldyboy 1]

So how many of the Nelson haters on this thread were wanting him to miss the penalty last night?

Maybe the haters will take on board Nelson’s finger to the lips and shut the fuck up now!

[hogesar 10,536]

I didnt want him to miss. I wanted him to take his first two clear chances too. Imagine the posts on here had Jerome missed those?

He was better last night but I wont hold my breath just yet. Lets wait till we arent live on sky...

[Samwam27 593]

Let''s hope that goal, and the second half performance re-ignites this team.

They''ve proved this season they can do it. AM hoping that we kick on from there.

But sell or keep NO come Jan, we desperately need to buy another striker that can push NO, or do a job when he comes on/plays