A decent manager

[Indy 3,300]

38 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

There’s plenty more players that have played for us or another team in promotion winning squads.

Sorry can’t agree this squads mid table. On top of Duffy and McClean there’s Gibson, Hanley, Barnes, Giannoulis and Stacy off top of my head.

You mix the talent of the 5 you mentioned with the solidity that should be offered by players like this there is no way this squads mid table. Go look at the squads currently mid table.

We aren’t in the league of Leicester, Southampton and Leeds…but neither is anyone else. We are arguably one of if not the best of the rest squads as you’d expect given our recent experience and expenditure.

Sorry Monty, in their prime say five years ago absolutely agree! But we have these players in their 30’s or heading past their best! We have a bang average squad in my opinion…that’s just what I see, look at those above us and see who has anywhere near as many old journeymen in their squads or teams! 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,400]

Prem quality: sarge, Rowe

top 6 champs: Sara, Nunez, Gunn

top half champs: Sainz, Fassnacht, Stacey, gianoulis, Kenny 

bog standard champs: Barnes, Duffy, Gibson, idah, McCullum, Onel 

bottom champs: Sorensen, batth, Gibbs, fisher

league 1: Long, 

[BigFish 1,988]

5 minutes ago, Indy said:

Sorry Monty, in their prime say five years ago absolutely agree! But we have these players in their 30’s or heading past their best! We have a bang average squad in my opinion…that’s just what I see, look at those above us and see who has anywhere near as many old journeymen in their squads or teams! 

Very true, very average @Indy. Before we kicked off in August most were pedicting mid-table at best. The fact that we are still in with a shout 12 games out is probably overachievement.

[chicken 2,627]

1 hour ago, baldy09 said:

Keith just now been  on radio Norfolk phone in stating the issue and cannot disagree with him

I was laughing at some of that, especially the bit where he said something like:

"I went to that away match and listened to your commentary on the TV"... 😂

There were some good questions, but also some poor ones like challenging "your man who asks the manager questions", Chris Goreham Keith. When every game, Chris Goreham asks about why certain players were picked or the thinking behind substitutions. It has been a very long time since managers have given straight answers to those sorts of questions, even Farke, because if a player has picked up a knock, they may not want to announce that until the presser to throw a change into the other teams preparations.

I am pretty sure that's what they have been doing with Sargent. They have been managing his return from injury, for sure, but all of this last minute fitness testing etc, I am fairly confident is to lull teams into a false sense of security, at the very least to enhance the impact of seeing him in the tunnel lining up against them.

[Monty13 2,235]

5 minutes ago, Indy said:

Sorry Monty, in their prime say five years ago absolutely agree! But we have these players in their 30’s or heading past their best! We have a bang average squad in my opinion…that’s just what I see, look at those above us and see who has anywhere near as many old journeymen in their squads or teams! 

Agree to disagree, I think in hindsight Webber’s been a bit harshly judged for the summer, not that he didn’t deserve it overall. By no means a great summer but not a bad one overall.

Yes there’s a lot of older pros but the general mix of this squad should be enough for top 6 IMO.

The issue is just how bad we were without Sargent for that run. If we’d been able to keep up a slightly better rate in that time we’d already be there.

[Ulfotto 635]

I’m sorry but after the last two seasons why does anyone think we are playoff certainties? One of the worst premier league campaigns in living memory and a disappointing mid table finish last year. Anyone who could get a better offer has left Pukki, Krul, Aarons, Cantwell, Dowell and Rashica. We are left with a bunch of honest triers and a few players who have a bit of quality.  Comfortable in the playoffs is a genius performance and well above par. Par would be taking scrapping sixth place as deep into the season as possible.

The performance at Anfield against Liverpool b/c team said it all only Kenny McLean looked like he could compete that day.

 

[Ian 1,129]

1 hour ago, Fen Canary said:

Is that like saying Buendia covered up for Farke? When he was in the team we’d get points despite Farke, but when he was injured/suspended our form was relegation material? 

This is exactly right. It's actually pathetic that people are saying our best players "cover up for Wagner".

It goes without saying that a team is going to be poorer when losing their best players. This is true of even the very best teams in the country, and especially true when you consider the (lack of/ depth in our squad.

Trying to twist injuries into an anti-manager stance just shows these people aren't arguing in good faith.

[Well b back 3,208]

14 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Prem quality: sarge, Rowe

top 6 champs: Sara, Nunez, Gunn

top half champs: Sainz, Fassnacht, Stacey, gianoulis, Kenny 

bog standard champs: Barnes, Duffy, Gibson, idah, McCullum, Onel 

bottom champs: Sorensen, batth, Gibbs, fisher

league 1: Long, 

Good to see you on a match day again, have you been unwell ?

[Well b back 3,208]

The op is a binner, why do you all bite every time he trolls.

[yellowrider120 763]

4 minutes ago, Well b back said:

The op is a binner, why do you all bite every time he trolls.

Even if true - the guy is spot on with his brief yet brusque analysis.

[Badger 2,405]

I can never quite get my head around the arguments of those that suggest that,

1. Webber was a terrible DoF + we've got the worst owners. Yet somehow...

2. We have one of the best squads in the division and should be comfortably in the play offs.

I'm not sure how both points can be true at the same time?

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,138]

When everyone's fit and motivated and our players are in form I really enjoy watching us under Wagner. It's 100mph, our play is unpredictable and quite inventive, we seem to often run teams off the ball and are really good at winning it back and overall we cause teams a lot of problems. 

But we're so inconstant and as soon as a couple of key players are missing it all falls apart. I can't help but think the fast intense style doesn't help with injuries either. I can live with the odd substitutions because I think they're made more around injury prevention and managing fitness as opposed to influencing games and no manager is perfect but it's the lack of consistency and our lower energy levels when playing poorer teams away from home that get on my nerves. If you have a squad of experienced players the one thing you should be able to count on is consistency game to game. The defensive lapses are also a concern but I think they're more personnel issues having such an unsettled defence and attack minded fullbacks. 

I think in some alternate reality where we had really good luck win injuries this year and we're able to rouse ourselves more for games like Rotherham/Blackburn/QPR away he'd have us right in the mix for automatics but that isn't the case and we haven't been lucky with injuries for years. For me the conversation is still the same as it was a few weeks ago. He stays the season, if he gets us up he keeps his job, if he doesn't we bring a new man in. I like Wagner and I love the style of play when it works but it feels like we're always treading water and it could fall apart at any time and he doesn't have a backup plan when it does. 

[Indy 3,300]

12 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

Agree to disagree, I think in hindsight Webber’s been a bit harshly judged for the summer, not that he didn’t deserve it overall. By no means a great summer but not a bad one overall.

Yes there’s a lot of older pros but the general mix of this squad should be enough for top 6 IMO.

The issue is just how bad we were without Sargent for that run. If we’d been able to keep up a slightly better rate in that time we’d already be there.

But last year a lot of people were saying if we were reliant on Sargent we are in trouble! So is Wagner to be praised in how he’s bought through the younger players? Rowe, Sainz, Sargent, Sara? How good would we have been if we actually spent some decent money on younger better players than those old free journeymen? Even Knapper has said he wants to change the squad!

[Indy 3,300]

20 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Very true, very average @Indy. Before we kicked off in August most were pedicting mid-table at best. The fact that we are still in with a shout 12 games out is probably overachievement.

I believe so and that’s why I still think Wagners actually doing OK, with some very questionable choices in subs and starting 11. I was one saying top 10, mid table, so doing better than I expected.

[Corbs1 89]

1 hour ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Sarge has covered up for Wagner -  

Yep and Emi covered for Farke, we’ve heard it all before….

[Well b back 3,208]

19 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said:

Even if true - the guy is spot on with his brief yet brusque analysis.

Is he ? Only time will tell. I remember him and Buhoo started the Farke is rubbish and that went well.

[Rich T The Biscuit 562]

30 minutes ago, Badger said:

I can never quite get my head around the arguments of those that suggest that,

1. Webber was a terrible DoF + we've got the worst owners. Yet somehow...

2. We have one of the best squads in the division and should be comfortably in the play offs.

I'm not sure how both points can be true at the same time?

Different people have different views, if the same people said both then clearly they're only here for a wind up.

Although all of those can be true and false depending on which angle you come from. 

Webber was a great DOF but then lost his way and therefore left not looking that great 

Owners have been amazing for the club but like Webber have stayed too long and have helped drag this club down.

We do have one of the best squads, but not playing to their best so some will think they are poor etc etc

[Monty13 2,235]

45 minutes ago, Indy said:

But last year a lot of people were saying if we were reliant on Sargent we are in trouble! So is Wagner to be praised in how he’s bought through the younger players? Rowe, Sainz, Sargent, Sara? How good would we have been if we actually spent some decent money on younger better players than those old free journeymen? Even Knapper has said he wants to change the squad!

Just to be clear, I’m behind Wagner, regardless of today’s result being disappointing. He’s in charge for the rest of the season, I want him to succeed.

My issue was with the idea we have a mid table squad, it’s not IMO it’s a top 6 capable squad with a handful of extremely talented players.

Wagner has been unfortunate with injuries, without them we’d surely be comfortable in the playoffs. However I don’t think that excuses just how dire we were during that early season period when we had injuries to key men.

My argument would be it’s those 5-6 players that get you there. I don’t think whether the more average players in the squad are 20 or 30 makes huge difference (other than resale/development), it’s those key players that are the game changers.

Oh and personally I’ve never doubted Sargent, I thought he was a 20+ goal striker this year, and evidence says he was if he hadn’t been out.

[Badger 2,405]

31 minutes ago, Rich T The Biscuit said:

Different people have different views, if the same people said both then clearly they're only here for a wind up.

 

There are rather a lot of them both on here and Twitter. I'm not sure they are on a wind up, I suspect that they don't see the mutual incompatibility of their statements.

[The Raptor 1,211]

Anyway. Back to the important point

 

**** OFF 'big' Keith Scott you stirring waster

Your team won today and you're on here winding people up? I sympathise but you have a pointless life. 

All the best

Edited February 25 by The Raptor

[vos 155]

It was generally accepted that last week's performance was best of the season. A lot more drive and directness coupled with some overdue pace. Hernandez combined very well with Stacey and the two caused constant problems albeit that the former's final ball could have been better. McCallum has much more pace than Gini, recovers quicker, and took up several promising positions high up the pitch on the left flank. Most people agree that Sargent looks more dangerous when he has Barnes beside him roughing up the opposition. So why did Wagner change a winning team by dropping Hernandez, Barnes and McCallum. I can understand the use of one substitute, say a winger or striker, but to continually bring on say three at a time surely just disjoints the team.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

3 hours ago, rock bus said:

Christ we’ve been playing really well recently and have drawn a game we should’ve won.

Can we not just give Wagner a break and fully get behind him and the team for the rest of the season?

Is that really asking too much for supposed fans of the club?

I don't think they can. Their hobby is campaigning to get managers sacked. The football's just incidental.

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

4 hours ago, BigFish said:

Very true, very average @Indy. Before we kicked off in August most were pedicting mid-table at best. The fact that we are still in with a shout 12 games out is probably overachievement.

Possibly, but honestly the  only opinion here worth taking seriously is that of PurpleCanary, and if I remember correctly they were forecasting at least a play-off place, because of the often unrealised strength in depth of the squad.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,400]

4 hours ago, Well b back said:

Good to see you on a match day again, have you been unwell ?

What is your point here? I merry gave an opinion of what level the individual players are. Which did I get wrong? 

[Well b back 3,208]

So why did Wagner change a winning team by droppingHernandez, Barnes and McCallum. 

I think I have the answer, he read this board and concluded Hernandez, Barnes and McCallum were s***.

[S_81 798]

I’ve said it all season - Wagner costs us too many points with his poor tactical decisions. He won’t get us promoted. I don’t even think into the play offs. I hope we get rid this summer. 

Edited February 25 by S_81

[BroadstairsR 2,173]

15 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

So why was everybody calling for Webbers head if we have a squad that should be easily sat in the play off places? I thought we’d got rid of Webber because his signings had been awful leaving us with no hope of promotion? 

We were calling for Webber's head for multiple reasons, but the three I can readily pinpoint are, in no particular order, his relationship with the fans and the local press, both of which turned sour in the end due to his apparent disdain for them based upon a certain inherent deceitfulness and overblown self-belief.

His poor use of the Buendia money at the time in preparing the squad for another crack at the PL. In that respect, he was "hoisted with his own petard" in respect to his comment about "p-issing money against the wall."

The unseemly manner of the sacking of Daniel Farke, a fan's favourite, and the fact that it seemed he was using him as a scapegoat for many of his own failings.

Add to this the employment of Dean Smith as soon as he came available, and this contradiction of his stated fact that he always had future planning and consistent progression in mind. In the event, Dean Smith was as much an opposite to DF as there could be.

Then his mate, Wagner, was appointed, who, imo, is not quite up to the job.

In retrospect, most of that Summer's signings seem sound (not all) but were probably made at the wrong time.The Sarge is now our mainstay and would now likely demand interest from PL clubs, whilst Rashica and Tszolis now seem to be becoming the performers we expected and might well give some decent return of investment.

His South American initiative has gone well, and I'd hope this doesn't retract under Knapper. The signing of Saintz also seems to rival that of Emi in being an excellent move.

Also, and of greater importance in the long-run, has been the superb development of the Colney facility along with the development of the youth system based upon maintaining our Cat. 1 status.

Finally, and has always seemed to have been the case with NCFC, the man was working with a degree of financial restriction, especially when compared with our PL rivals. 

All in all, the slate is clear for me, although I'm glad he's gone, and I am looking forward to the cobwebs being cleared from Miss Haversham's domain by a young innovative DoF and (hopefully) some more US dosh and input.

Edited February 25 by BroadstairsR

[canarybubbles 1,919]

41 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

We were calling for Webber's head for multiple reasons, but the three I can readily pinpoint are, in no particular order, his relationship with the fans and the local press, both of which turned sour in the end due to his apparent disdain for them based upon a certain inherent deceit.

His poor use of the Buendia money at the time in preparing the squad for another crack at the PL. In that respect, he was "hoisted with his own petard" in respect to his comment about "p-issing money against the wall."

The unseemly manner of the sacking of Daniel Farke, a fan's favourite, and the fact that it seemed he was using him as a scapegoat for many of his own failings.

Add to this the employment of Dean Smith as soon as he came available, and this contradiction of his stated fact that he always had future planning and consistent progression in mind. In the event, Dean Smith was as much an opposite to DF as there could be.

Then his mate, Wagner, was appointed, who, imo, is not quite up to the job.

In retrospect, most of that Summer's signings seem sound (not all) but were probably made at the wrong time.The Sarge is now our mainstay and would now likely demand interest from PL clubs, whilst Rashica and Tszolis now seem to be becoming the performers we expected and might well give some decent return of investment.

His South American initiative has gone well, and I'd hope this doesn't retract under Knapper. The signing of Saintz also seems to rival that of Emi in being an excellent move.

Also, and of greater importance in the long-run, has been the superb development of the Colney facility along with the development of the youth system based upon maintaining our Cat. 1 status.

Finally, and has always seemed to have been the case with NCFC, the man was working with a degree of financial restriction, especially when compared with our PL rivals. 

All in all, the slate is clear for me, although I'm glad he's gone, and I am looking forward to the cobwebs being cleared from Miss Haversham's domain by a young innovative DoF and (hopefully) some more US dosh and input.

Very fair summary IMO. I disliked him intensely, but have to accept that his overall impact on the club included much that was very good (but also much that was very bad). But his time was up, and I think even he realised that. The cycle had ended and he hadn't got the motivation to start all over again, which is what we now need. 

[BigFish 1,988]

9 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Possibly, but honestly the  only opinion here worth taking seriously is that of PurpleCanary, and if I remember correctly they were forecasting at least a play-off place, because of the often unrealised strength in depth of the squad.

AS a fan I hope you are right @PurpleCanary, looks like it is possible, if not probable

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,763]

I'd say with a fit Sargent all season, most half competent managers- even Wagner ,would have had us comfortably in the top 6 all season