You're Getting Sacked In The Morning.

[TIL 1010 4,789]

Standing at Vicarage Road on one of those cold, wet and miserable Tuesday nights in November was not my idea of a fun night out but hey ho myself and a couple of friends were there.

You know the time is up for the head coach/manager when our loyal away fans sing the thread title but no such rendition was heard as we all know it won't happen. However Wagner was subjected to......David Wagner your football is $hit, We want Wagner out and you don't know what you are doing plus of course the customary boos every few minutes in the second half especially.

David please do the honourable thing and fall on your sword before we fall into complete and utter disarray.

MOTM for me was Sara for putting his kit on.

Edited November 29, 2023 by TIL 1010

[Coneys Knee 985]

I agree, he needs to go. Time is up. But do you honestly think that things would improve under a new head coach? This squad is dire and even our best players are no better than average. 
 

I honestly believe this club is stuck in this position until there is real change at the top. I.e. Delia and Michael have stood down completely. Until then we’re just going to be stuck on this same path I fear.

[Ken Hairy 3,780]

Could hear all this very clearly on the tele Tilly, especially when the subs were made and at the end.

There just has to be an announcement today, if only for Knapper to prove his creditablity.

[Don’t be Krul 399]

15 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

Could hear all this very clearly on the tele Tilly, especially when the subs were made and at the end.

There just has to be an announcement today, if only for Knapper to prove his creditablity.

If only, but I don't think it will happen. But, and it is a big but, if he went what viable alternatives are out there? Do they appoint an interim to steady the ship, thinking about Colin particularly?

[Old Shuck 188]

3 minutes ago, Don’t be Krul said:

If only, but I don't think it will happen. But, and it is a big but, if he went what viable alternatives are out there? Do they appoint an interim to steady the ship, thinking about Colin particularly?

I think our owners believe they/we are "too good" for Warnock, that we are, somehow, above appointing him or a coach of his ilk-of whom there are not that many more!

They've rejected him once, he'll not get another chance.

The belief is "...we're Norwich City, we don't play your style of football or welcome your sort of management and personality".

Breaking news: we're already playing an inferior style of his football-plus his sort of management and personality is exactly what we need right now.

 

[Herman 9,820]

Sadly it needs to happen. We desperately need a fresh start.

[Don’t be Krul 399]

8 minutes ago, Old Shuck said:

I think our owners believe they/we are "too good" for Warnock, that we are, somehow, above appointing him or a coach of his ilk-of whom there are not that many more!

They've rejected him once, he'll not get another chance.

The belief is "...we're Norwich City, we don't play your style of football or welcome your sort of management and personality".

Breaking news: we're already playing an inferior style of his football-plus his sort of management and personality is exactly what we need right now.

 

I mentioned interim and Warnock particularly because I am struggling to think of a permanent. There have been names bandied around, such as Schumacher and Fat Frank, amongst others and none of them gives me cause for hope. So I started to think a bit leftfield and came up with Ryan Mason at Spurs. That's about as far as my thinking goes. But then I'm not paid decent sums of money to make those decisions

[Old Shuck 188]

2 minutes ago, Don’t be Krul said:

I mentioned interim and Warnock particularly because I am struggling to think of a permanent. There have been names bandied around, such as Schumacher and Fat Frank, amongst others and none of them gives me cause for hope. So I started to think a bit leftfield and came up with Ryan Mason at Spurs. That's about as far as my thinking goes. But then I'm not paid decent sums of money to make those decisions

If and when it happens, they'll appoint Michael Beale and give him a 4 year contract & say what a 'coup' it is....

He looks to have potential as a coach. But we need a leader. Its why Lambert and Cully worked so well-a leader and motivator plus a damned good coach working together.

[dylanisabaddog 4,975]

2 hours ago, Coneys Knee said:

I agree, he needs to go. Time is up. But do you honestly think that things would improve under a new head coach? This squad is dire and even our best players are no better than average. 
 

I honestly believe this club is stuck in this position until there is real change at the top. I.e. Delia and Michael have stood down completely. Until then we’re just going to be stuck on this same path I fear.

I agree they're average but they're better than they're playing at the moment. Either they're not fit or they don't care. It's a relief that it's such a poor division. 

[Peregrine Shorts 331]

5 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

I agree they're average but they're better than they're playing at the moment. Either they're not fit or they don't care. It's a relief that it's such a poor division. 

weren't we promised the fittest squad in the division?

[mrdi 373]

There’s no way Knapper, the new young SD from Arsenal, is going to make Colin his first appointment. Not even on an interim basis. Seriously, just think about it. 

Michael Beale? I’d rather have Ian Beale. 

 

[Sooty57 403]

1 hour ago, mrdi said:

I’d rather have Ian Beale. 

 

We probably couldn't afford him. Besides which, I not sure it would go down too well if Delia's was renamed The Meal Machine.

[Herman 9,820]

It's just gone 9am. I assume there is movement at CR. 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,853]

Maybe a 'Knapper, sort it out' chant is needed. If he realises that he's losing the trust of the fanbase already by not taking action, then his hand may be forced.

This is his first SD role, so surely he doesn't want to risk losing the fans within the first month or two? Because if Wagner is in charge for the derby and we lose, Knapper will already be coming under fire.

[Badger 2,412]

2 hours ago, Old Shuck said:

Its why Lambert and Cully worked so well-a leader and motivator plus a damned good coach working together.

Why do you think that it failed at Villa? Did they not need a leader and motivator and a damn good coach?

[Capt. Pants 4,276]

It didn't help when Delia stuck her oar in giving her support to Wagner and when he publicised it to the media that pretty much made him safe. He knew exactly what he was doing.

Knapper needs to prove he's not a glove puppet though and get shot of Wagner and Buhler now, immediately, this moment if not sooner.

Attanasio is in town so sign-off should be instant.

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,590]

He's not going to be sacked because it's very unlikely that changing the manager in isolation is going to improve our fortunes for this season and Knapper's tenure will be poisoned before he has had a chance to get his feet under the desk. In all seriousness, if people can't just get behind the team to get results and simply try to appreciate them getting results when they do then they need to stop going for the rest of the season for the squad's benefit and for their own benefit.

Edited November 29, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[stratton canary 134]

36 minutes ago, Herman said:

It's just gone 9am. I assume there is movement at CR. 

Yep Delia has just had her first sherry, & shouting "Happy Christmas"! 

[Mr Angry 1,571]

3 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

He's not going to be sacked because it's very unlikely that changing the manager in isolation is going to improve our fortunes for this season. In all seriousness, if people can't just get behind the team to get results and simply try to appreciate them getting results when they do then they need to stop going for the rest of the season for the squad's benefit and for their own benefit.

We were behind the team from the start last night-but how does getting behind the team help the players to find team mates with simple passes?

[Capt. Pants 4,276]

Fcuk me it's the fans fault now!

[stratton canary 134]

Well the Yanks, Knapper & the coffin dodgers were all there watching, if nothing is going to happen then someone please come out a tell us fans, then it's up to us if we go & watch or not. 

[Google Bot 3,299]

4 hours ago, Coneys Knee said:

I honestly believe this club is stuck in this position until there is real change at the top. I.e. Delia and Michael have stood down completely. Until then we’re just going to be stuck on this same path I fear.

Even that doesn't change who we are, and where we expect to be though.

The underlying issue is that we're one of the few self efficient clubs, and will be under Attanasio's too, yet have an expectance to get to the prem league with eyes on securing safety.  I'm not sure the two married up several seasons ago, let alone now where the money has gone to another gear. 

Compare the individual talent and flair that Watford had to our squad and it's all down to money.  Can't think of many in this squad who would've done that sidestep for their third goal, and all we've done is devalued our squad with players walking for free, us selling for less than we paid, or youngsters like AO and Mumba being cashed in at the earliest opportunity.

[Sooty57 403]

2 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Fcuk me it's the fans fault now!

So Dean Smith was right all along. Why on earth did we doubt him?

[Hairy Canary 707]

8 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

He's not going to be sacked because it's very unlikely that changing the manager in isolation is going to improve our fortunes for this season and Knapper's tenure will be poisoned before he has had a chance to get his feet under the desk. In all seriousness, if people can't just get behind the team to get results and simply try to appreciate them getting results when they do then they need to stop going for the rest of the season for the squad's benefit and for their own benefit.

I can see where you’re coming from but the counter argument is that not changing the manager could be disastrous.
 

There is so much wrong that is down to DW from the way we set up, his bizarre substitutions and team selections, and the fact that we are losing confidence by the bucketload. If we do nothing and spiral downward for the next few months it could be very tough to pull out of.

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,590]

2 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Fcuk me it's the fans fault now!

Tell you what, if you consider the possibility that player's feelings are as sensitive as yours are then you know I'm speaking sense.

[KeiranShikari 1,431]

It's obvious Wagner isn't going to get playoffs and it's unlikely we'll get relegated. Appointing a new manager that aligns with Knapper's blueprint makes sense. New manager can use this season to get his ideas into players' heads and we'll hopefully be in a stronger place come the start of next season.

I don't believe that a guy who has learned from Wenger, Emery and Arteta would want a manager like Wagner. If course I am just assuming there.

We obviously should have sacked him before Knapper's arrival. The recent wins were like wins under Smith, without a performance to match the results are rarely sustainable. 

Edited November 29, 2023 by KeiranShikari

[Google Bot 3,299]

It'd be interesting to know what McNally would've done walking in to this, he was more experienced and quite clinical in such decisions.  Knapper just can't possibly have his experience or wider contacts in the game.

In fact, I'm not sure what lead to Lambert coming in at the time, obviously the heavy defeat played a part but I think they knew each other from Celtic previously?

[Yobocop 1,105]

3 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

It'd be interesting to know what McNally would've done walking in to this, he was more experienced and quite clinical in such decisions.  Knapper just can't possibly have his experience or wider contacts in the game.

In fact, I'm not sure what lead to Lambert coming in at the time, obviously the heavy defeat played a part but I think they knew each other from Celtic previously?

I maintain after the 7-1 at carrow road they got him in the boardroom and said name your price 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,590]

11 minutes ago, Hairy Canary said:

I can see where you’re coming from but the counter argument is that not changing the manager could be disastrous.
 

There is so much wrong that is down to DW from the way we set up, his bizarre substitutions and team selections, and the fact that we are losing confidence by the bucketload. If we do nothing and spiral downward for the next few months it could be very tough to pull out of.

 

It could be disastrous, but in all likelihood won't be. We know injuries have had a massive negative impact and a replacement will have those same issues to contend with. 4 wins in the next 28 games is probably enough for survival and there's no way we'll get less than that, however poor we think we are at the moment. Even on current form, it's not going to be as bad as that.

There's simply no strategic value to the club of changing now and there's no likelihood of any credible candidate being attracted to take the position at the moment.

Edited November 29, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Mason 47 1,395]

I don't think you particularly need a world-changing innovator to come in as manager.

As a microcosm, take the Idah > Gibbs substitution last night; I understand completely the logical reason behind it, as Gibbs is much more agile & will run for days (we were unable to press efficiently) and if Hwang is now injured there's a pressing need to keep Idah healthy. However, it is a much over-complicated change making wonky use of playing assets in favour of theoretical fit; we aren't in a position currently where theoretical works. In the same manner of thinking, Duffy should be playing in place of Hernandez because he would hold the ball up well.

Stop playing square pegs in a round system. It doesn't seem to me to be rocket science. The Wagner bounce-pass system through Hernandez has been an uncomfortable fit since last season, for example, yet we see it basically every game. The players look like a squad of Plachetas at the moment, whom you could hear making a dial-up tone playing under Farke as he tried to remember his tactical instructions.

Now they all look like that, which says to me we need to simplify what we're doing. This squad is not a bottom-rung Championship outfit, I completely believe, but we're dead in the water until we get real.