Is promotion these day really worth it?

[Bradwell canary 109]

Three teams promoted last season, now rooted at the bottom of the PL. My bet is that three of them almost certain the be relegated.

The three will probably sack the managers who worked minor miracles to get them up.

A few managers later nothing will have changed ( after all they all can’t get Colin at the same time)

clearly every season the gap gets wider and wider. It’s almost getting to be impossible to stay there.

while some clubs like Chelsea continue to total waste money with no improvement, others newly promoted have to survive on the weekly wage of a couple of Chelsea players waste.

Lve football but absolutely hate what it has become.

[A Load of Squit 5,201]

The previous season the 3 promoted clubs all stayed up. 

[nutty nigel 7,565]

Well if it isn't that means we don't want promotion, don't want mid-table and don't want relegation.

But then, nothing would surprise me on here...

[Canary Wundaboy 1,359]

8 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

The previous season the 3 promoted clubs all stayed up. 

This. 

[Capt. Pants 4,271]

We normally have this sh1te trotted out when it seems possible that we may not or aren't going to get promoted.

[BroadstairsR 2,195]

It seems to be disappearing up its own backside, but the often predicted bursting of that bubble always seems the same distance away.

While it exists, in whatever form, whether unsavoury or not, it is always worth City making it their aim to reach it, imo.

The financial benefits are obvious as are the financial pitfalls. NCFC has experienced both, but as long as relegation from it seems a probability rather than a certainty existence at the top-table can be made to work even whilst avoiding the severest of such financial perils.

I never minded us being labelled a yo-yo side or even the number one yo-yo side and have said before that if this status could be guaranteed for the next ten years I would be happy with it. The best of both worlds with the exhilaration and status of a promotion push from the Championship being lavished with the parachutes upon relegation. If managed correctly we may even be able to afford that new stand we so desperately need. I can't envisage any other way as things are.

In the meantime we would see the crème de la crème playing at Carrow Road in front of full houses whilst having the club being recognised on the world stage. What's not to like?

This stance is not one that is supportive of what exists now by any stretch of the imagination but just an attempt to find a credible way that Norwich City can benefit from it whilst being an obvious alternative to be coming mid-table Championship nonentities with the annual losses piling up.

Mountaineers want to climb Everest, despite the perils, because it is there. NCFC should aspire to Premiership status, however ephemeral, because it is there despite the perils.

That's my opinion. Others would disagree possibly because they are letting some hatred of the top league, the big boys and their backing and the way City have been humiliated in the past overwhelm the obvious benefits from such a financial and status enhancing experience.

Little Old Norwich we won't be ... if only temporarily again.  

Edited September 25, 2023 by BroadstairsR

[hogesar 9,717]

32 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

The previous season the 3 promoted clubs all stayed up. 

 

25 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

This. 

The problem is, Fulham had to spend £150 odd million across a couple seasons to get to that point.

Forest had to spent nearly £150 million on 20 odd players alongside ridiculous wages on the likes of Lingard on a whim.

Even Bournemouth spent £80 odd million and required a miracle run from Gary O'Neil.

 

This season, we have three promoted teams without the ability to spend nonsensical amounts of money and we are seeing the result of that.

[Canary Wundaboy 1,359]

6 minutes ago, hogesar said:

 

The problem is, Fulham had to spend £150 odd million across a couple seasons to get to that point.

Forest had to spent nearly £150 million on 20 odd players alongside ridiculous wages on the likes of Lingard on a whim.

Even Bournemouth spent £80 odd million and required a miracle run from Gary O'Neil.

 

This season, we have three promoted teams without the ability to spend nonsensical amounts of money and we are seeing the result of that.

So the problem isn’t that it isn’t worth getting promoted, the problem is that we don’t have enough money to make a decent fist of it. Which brings us back to the ownership again…

[The Real Buh 3,455]

It’s a more complex question than most people I’ve encountered give it credit for.

There have, in the past, been “yo-yo” teams, teams that consistently can’t find a sustained level to settle and play football at. This phenomena is present between the championship and the premier league but also across the football leagues but we are living through a unique period now where some of the top clubs in the highest league are now accelerating so fast away from the rest that those that remain are being left far, far behind.

Norwich, as this era’s quintessential yo-yo team, stand as a weird metaphor that the current way football continues to operate is clearly not working and is now borderline macabre in the way it’s run.

Ive said it before but the game these big clubs are playing isn’t football anymore, it’s something else. They have access to resource and talent that is not in the same universe as the rest of the teams. To continue the status quo is just bizarre. In coming years more and more teams with join Norwich in the purgatory and the voices that something must be done will grow louder.

A Fiat 500 and a Formula one racer are both cars, but I think we’d all agree they aren’t the same thing.

Edited September 25, 2023 by The Real Buh

[hogesar 9,717]

3 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

So the problem isn’t that it isn’t worth getting promoted, the problem is that we don’t have enough money to make a decent fist of it. Which brings us back to the ownership again…

The problem is that *most* clubs don't have enough money to make a fist of it anymore. This isn't just a Norwich issue as this season demonstrates.

So what owners do you want? How much do you want them to loan the club? Note loan / invest. We don't have a billionaire Norwich fan in the wings, so no one is going to gift the club money in the same way our current owners have done.

How does MA spend £200 million and turn a profit?

Player trading maybe? But part of the desire for new owners is to not sell our best players, right?

Staying in the prem? Look at the average wage bills. Midtable prem teams are spending far more on wages alone.

[Google Bot 3,298]

You've got to want it for sporting reasons, not financial.

Clubs get there for the windfall, and many screw their finances and morals trying to get there.

[Corbs1 90]

I think our yo-yo days are over. I guess many a Luton Director and fan would accept relegation as long as some of the surplus was used to put the club on a better footing going forward- ground improvements, facilities, infrastructure etc. 

Of course they will then face the familiar criticism of too much prudence, not enough ambition. The question is how much do you gamble, and how much do you spend on wages. 

[A Load of Squit 5,201]

The problem is whether you see promotion and a subsequent relegation as a failure or just part of what football is to clubs like Sheff Utd., Luton, Burnley etc.

Not many clubs become 'established' Premier League clubs anymore, each season there's probably about 8 clubs who will see survival and a bonus and relegation as a part of life.

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,343]

1 hour ago, A Load of Squit said:

The previous season the 3 promoted clubs all stayed up. 

How much did they have to spend to achieve this though? We'd have to make a deal with the devil and all his minions before we were able to get anywhere near that sort of outlay.

 

56 minutes ago, hogesar said:

 

The problem is, Fulham had to spend £150 odd million across a couple seasons to get to that point.

Forest had to spent nearly £150 million on 20 odd players alongside ridiculous wages on the likes of Lingard on a whim.

Even Bournemouth spent £80 odd million and required a miracle run from Gary O'Neil.

 

This season, we have three promoted teams without the ability to spend nonsensical amounts of money and we are seeing the result of that.

I see hoggy beat me to it... 

[A Load of Squit 5,201]

13 minutes ago, GodlyOtsemobor said:

How much did they have to spend to achieve this though? We'd have to make a deal with the devil and all his minions before we were able to get anywhere near that sort of outlay.

 

I see hoggy beat me to it... 

I appreciate that you have to spend loads but the OP said it was 'impossible', I was giving an example where it had been possible.

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,343]

Just now, A Load of Squit said:

I appreciate that you have to spend loads but the OP said it was 'impossible', I was giving an example where it had been possible.

Which is completely fair and I'd agree that it is possible, with the caveat that it's possible with 100+ millions worth of spend OR getting the recruiting absolutely inch perfect which very little (if any) clubs in our situation can manage. 

🤷 football is broken.. 

[Nexus_Canary 1,024]

Been here in another thread.
F**k the Premier League, totally not interested.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,442]

Yes. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I believe the EPL is an illegitimate product of media, wannabes and historical pecking orders.

Given the attitude the club likes to pose, is that the place for us?

Trouble is we all want our team to win and the outcome is chickens like us getting sent to the place where the predators are.

[Ulfotto 641]

8 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

The previous season the 3 promoted clubs all stayed up. 

This has more to do with the complete mis management by Leeds, Southampton and Leicester than the success of the other teams.

[SwindonCanary 455]

I'd love us to get back in the Premiership just for the money coming back to the club.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[A Load of Squit 5,201]

8 hours ago, Ulfotto said:

This has more to do with the complete mis management by Leeds, Southampton and Leicester than the success of the other teams.

You could be right but I was responding to the OP who said it was 'impossible' for teams to stay up when the previous season it had happened.

 

[Nexus_Canary 1,024]

9 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

I'd love us to get back in the Premiership just for the money coming back to the club.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And watch teams with zero pedigree walk the ball around like they are something special??
Pffft no thanks.

Im all Ok with the likes of Arsenal, Spurs and Man Utd beating us, but Money Cheat City and Newsaudi Utd whatever. 
They deserve to be the Championship / League 1 teams they truly are.

 

Honestly rather be relegated than promoted and for once I am not even trolling.

[Capt. Pants 4,271]

Can't wait to be back and see the world class players. Would rather we were trying our best to survive in that league than being humiliated by a League One team.

Anyway, we have a new owner and investor on the way, that clearly is our goal, to be back in the EPL.

[Mello Yello 2,298]

Well for starters without promotion we'll certainly miss our well run club Prem self-funded club money.....If we're supposedly strugglin' financially (just a little bit) at the mo....I do personally think we would probably be strugglin' a whole lot more without the current input and financial benevolence of MA from across the pond....If MA wasn't currently onboard and 'on the board?' I'd suspect in a few more seasons we'd be Eskimo rollin' in a canoe on the Wensum without a paddle....Only in my personal opinion.....

"Other people's money....eh?"......

Edited September 26, 2023 by Mello Yello

[benchwarmer 625]

20 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

The previous season the 3 promoted clubs all stayed up. 

And the three promoted clubs have only been relegated once in the history of the PL - in 1997/8, ie. 25 years ago.

[Worthy Nigelton 1,058]

We're still early in the season for the three promoted clubs. People had Forest as relegated this time last season and look what happened. It is getting tougher, no doubt about that, but it's not impossible to stay up in season one and then build from there.

Having said that, I think Luton were down before a ball was kicked as, in truth, they weren't particularly good in the Championship last year, it was just a poor league. Sheff Utd, similar but have a better chance than Luton. Burnley though, will stay up IMHO if they stick with Kompany and then have a chance to really build something.

There are plenty of mid-sized clubs and smaller competing in the Premier League, so it is possible for a club like us, but we just have to sign better players than we have done the last couple of times we were there. 

[hogesar 9,717]

1 hour ago, Capt. Pants said:

Can't wait to be back and see the world class players. Would rather we were trying our best to survive in that league than being humiliated by a League One team.

Anyway, we have a new owner and investor on the way, that clearly is our goal, to be back in the EPL.

Personally, I support Norwich, not other world-class players from big clubs. So I'll never understand that bit. I was far more interested in watching Wes Hoolahan rip apart the Championship than I would be watching Anthony Gordon skinning Gini.

Yes, we have a new *investor* on the way and the big question is how does he finance a Premier League survival whilst getting what he wants (hint, it's money).

[ZLF 274]

For us to attract players like sara and to pay the wages of players that give us seasons ripping up the champs we need the premiers parachute money.  Finding players from lower leagues is far tougher to sustain than the first foray by webber/farke  made it look 

Mind you in would love to know how the mk es for those three Brazilian players are progressing

 

[ged in the onion bag 856]

On 25/09/2023 at 13:52, Canary Wundaboy said:

So the problem isn’t that it isn’t worth getting promoted, the problem is that we don’t have enough money to make a decent fist of it. Which brings us back to the ownership again…

I'd contend we nearly did it!    Farkes first promotion, we suffered a lot of injuries and VAR really did rip us off..... we needed about 4 good signings including athletic CDM's and more experience to help the young defenders and Zimmermann.     Recruitment wasn't very good and obviously we spent nothing.    Had we just gambled a little in the whole scheme of things, perhaps £20-£30m, we may have had enough.  We definitely had some quality and had we survived, Farke could have built on it.    

The idea is a good one and the only reasonable one going forward.    It does need quality throughout the club from management, coaching, development, opportunity, scouting and recruitment.   Sadly, we haven't got that in most areas.

We will never compete financially.

Edited September 26, 2023 by ged in the onion bag