Thin squad

[Danke bitte 967]

After a few great results and perusing comments on here, I’ve noticed a few posters mentioning the potential lack of depth on the bench / squad.

Bear in mind that Sainz is returning soon, so that’s a good option (should he get to grips with the Champ). 

Just wondered what the general consensus is and where do you feel the squad needs that extra depth - this is purely fantasy mind, I’m aware the club’s statement is not to bring in anyone else but it is a long season with Jan probably used as a stop gap.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,778]

We need a good defensive midfielder but we have been saying that since Skipp left and have failed to bother every time so I've given up hope on getting one

[S_81 829]

Need a better CDM for some fixtures/tactics. Need better striking competition off the bench than Idah. Weak at right back if Stacey is injured. 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,846]

When you look at the squad list we seem OK for numbers, but when you look at the bench yesterday we don't.

I'd say a versatile attacker who could cover out wide as well as through the middle. I know we have Sainz to come back but Placheta isn't up to it and Springett doesn't seem ready, and our only backup to Barnes and Sargent in attack is Idah. If we're sticking with this system, we need a fourth centre forward.

Possibly also something in defence. We have four full backs but one of them is embarking on his first season in professional football, and we only have three fit centre backs whilst Hanley and Tomkinson are out injured. I wouldn't say it's a priority though.

[TheGunnShow 5,985]

Considering that we have Sainz, Hanley, Tomkinson, Hernandez and Sorensen injured and that despite a promising performance in the cup, Placheta didn't even get on the bench yesterday (minor injury, perhaps?) then I'm not completely convinced about the idea that the squad is lacking much.

The bigger problem is that our universal stopgap, Lungi, is injured.

[hogesar 9,722]

2 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

We need a good defensive midfielder but we have been saying that since Skipp left and have failed to bother every time so I've given up hope on getting one

The thing is, Skipp couldn't undertake McLeans role for us right now because that position requires at least the option of playing long balls out wide. Skipp didn't have that in his locker. 

We would therefore be looking for a defensive midfielder with good positioning, tactical awareness and an ability to spot danger, with a good passing range.

Unless Webber pulls of an Emi-esque miracle they don't generally come within our budget or standing.

I wouldn't be averse to another midfielder of some description as I don't personally think Sorensen can do what McLean does as effectively either. Gibbs has a chance though.

As for squad depth I think in a perfect world those complaining would be right but every single club would struggle losing 2 or 3 from their first team. Apart from maybe a Leicester or Leeds, no one can afford to have that level of quality on the bench.

Where we would currently struggle most is an injury to CB or ST. I'm guessing most teams think the same 

[Haus 259]

1 minute ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

When you look at the squad list we seem OK for numbers, but when you look at the bench yesterday we don't.

I'd say a versatile attacker who could cover out wide as well as through the middle. I know we have Sainz to come back but Placheta isn't up to it and Springett doesn't seem ready, and our only backup to Barnes and Sargent in attack is Idah. If we're sticking with this system, we need a fourth centre forward.

Possibly also something in defence. We have four full backs but one of them is embarking on his first season in professional football, and we only have three fit centre backs whilst Hanley and Tomkinson are out injured. I wouldn't say it's a priority though.

Yeah, might have been useful to hang onto Tzolis.  

A loan might be the best option.  It's going to be a long season and with all the added time and the new extra subs we are allowed, we could use more bench depth.

[vlad666 203]

Cm and Cd. 

[BigFish 1,988]

24 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

We need a good defensive midfielder but we have been saying that since Skipp left and have failed to bother every time so I've given up hope on getting one

 

11 minutes ago, S_81 said:

Need a better CDM for some fixtures/tactics. Need better striking competition off the bench than Idah. Weak at right back if Stacey is injured. 

At the moment the system is king, any players we get need to fit to that. That is why Tzolis is on loan and Springett is still here, even though the former is a far better player. That is why the call for a defensive midfielder is nonsense.

[Ernie Wise 67]

I struggle to understand the love in for Sorensen. Wagner’s style is a dynamic, front foot, all action and dynamic way. 
Sorensen always looks a neat and tidy footballer but always seems to be too laid back and seems to slow the game down. He would be more suited to a Farke NCFC style. He was not up to the role of centre back last season even allowing for the poor performances of the team in general. 
I would like to have a more Wagneresque type of midfielder to be the back up if Kenny or Sara are unavailable.

[Top corner 228]

17 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Considering that we have Sainz, Hanley, Tomkinson, Hernandez and Sorensen injured and that despite a promising performance in the cup, Placheta didn't even get on the bench yesterday (minor injury, perhaps?) then I'm not completely convinced about the idea that the squad is lacking much.

The bigger problem is that our universal stopgap, Lungi, is injured.

Wagner said after the game yesterday that Placheta had a small problem with his hamstring & didn't want to risk him. 

[Nuff Said 5,163]

I think we’re missing a good prophet of doom on the Pink Un who tells us that despite being unbeaten, we’re on the cusp of a slide into, at best, mid table obscurity. Also that it’s all Delia’s fault. They need resilience and character to keep banging on in the face of impressive displays on the pitch and somehow to keep things fresh. Optionally they could emulate the late Wiz and flip-flop wildly but I’m not sure anyone could successfully fill his magic hat (that’s not a euphemism BTW).
 

Also a poster who can keep the zingers coming and the board  laughing, we have a few on here who I enjoy but they need to up their game and demonstrate consistency by scoring every couple of days so it really looks like we can aspire to the Premier League of message boards and have a chance to stay there.

[Nuff Said 5,163]

4 hours ago, Ernie Wise said:

I struggle to understand the love in for Sorensen. Wagner’s style is a dynamic, front foot, all action and dynamic way. 
Sorensen always looks a neat and tidy footballer but always seems to be too laid back and seems to slow the game down. He would be more suited to a Farke NCFC style. He was not up to the role of centre back last season even allowing for the poor performances of the team in general. 
I would like to have a more Wagneresque type of midfielder to be the back up if Kenny or Sara are unavailable.

Becchio syndrome. 
 

When he did play a few games in his preferred position, most posters quickly revised their opinion.

 

Edit: reading this back, it sounds too dismissive. Lungi had his virtues beyond just being versatile (and would probably benefit from a run of a few games). But he’s not the messiah.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Nuff Said

[Branston Pickle 3,679]

7 minutes ago, BigFish said:

 

At the moment the system is king, any players we get need to fit to that. That is why Tzolis is on loan and Springett is still here, even though the former is a far better player. That is why the call for a defensive midfielder is nonsense.

Some people are so rigid in their ideas, they don’t seem to get it.  I do think we might need another midfielder, but the cdm role is simply not needed worth the current system (which is performing well).

[Canary Wundaboy 1,359]

We're a striker, a Kenny replacement and a CB short of having a really solid squad. Having just watched the cup highlights I think those worried about squad depth do have a decent case.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,797]

Once Sainz (I'm saying this without having seen him play!) and Hanley return , I'd say we have 16 players - the 11 that started yesterday + Nunez , Omobamidele and Hernandez as an impact off the bench , before the quality then severely drops.

We're clearly short in cover in some areas, RB and CDM , wouldnt mind another no.10 too.

Still cant believe we let Mumba go,  player who can play full back ,wing back and on the wing ,both left and right would've surely come in useful somewhere along the line in a 46 game season

[S_81 829]

34 minutes ago, BigFish said:

 

At the moment the system is king, any players we get need to fit to that. That is why Tzolis is on loan and Springett is still here, even though the former is a far better player. That is why the call for a defensive midfielder is nonsense.

Tell you what’s nonsense - the thought that Tzolis is anything other than a dud. Regardless of system. 
 

As for defensive mid - you telling me McClean isn’t tasked with such duties? I think we can do better than him. 

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,797]

23 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Some people are so rigid in their ideas, they don’t seem to get it.  I do think we might need another midfielder, but the cdm role is simply not needed worth the current system (which is performing well).

...indeed, the current midfield us fine when youre controlling a midfield vs a poor Millwall....but a proper CDM is required when defending a lead away at Southampton

[mrdi 373]

14 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Some people are so rigid in their ideas, they don’t seem to get it.  I do think we might need another midfielder, but the cdm role is simply not needed worth the current system (which is performing well).

The "we need a CDM!" infatuation is more than a bit tedious now. While many people still seem to have it in for Kenny, I think he's been one of our better players since Wagner came in. We have 2 CM places in this set-up. Kenny & Sara have those locked down. Nunez can't get a place, Gibbs can't get a place, neither will Lungi when he's fit again. Why add a specialist player at what we can assume would be a huge cost who won't actually get in the team? 

As others have said above, we're light on strikers - especially if/when either Sarge or Barnes gets injured/suspended. I can imagine someone of a different physical profile to the current three coming in to give options from the bench. Unless of course Wagner considers Fassnacht as an option there.

 

[jaberry2 554]

1 hour ago, Danke bitte said:

After a few great results and perusing comments on here, I’ve noticed a few posters mentioning the potential lack of depth on the bench / squad.

Bear in mind that Sainz is returning soon, so that’s a good option (should he get to grips with the Champ). 

Just wondered what the general consensus is and where do you feel the squad needs that extra depth - this is purely fantasy mind, I’m aware the club’s statement is not to bring in anyone else but it is a long season with Jan probably used as a stop gap.

Its my view that our bench options arent really good enough and we could do with some more quality despite some players returning from injury.

[Cowboy 198]

1 hour ago, Danke bitte said:

... I’m aware the club’s statement is not to bring in anyone else but it is a long season with Jan probably used as a stop gap.

Jan Molby? Farking hell! Mind you, he could certainly 'stop' a big 'gap' back in the day, and I doubt he's wasted away much since then.

[BroadstairsR 2,199]

I do not think that, apart from one or two exceptions, we have any the weaker back-up options than most teams in the league, but we now have new cash and should strengthen where needed.

 Nunez, Gibbs and Sainz (hopefully) I view as our trump cards.

Another versatile defender could be desired depending upon how you view Sorenson and the evolution of Placheta. The youngsters are largely un-tested.

The stand-out need, imo, is for a.n.other striker of quality  ... but we won't go into that any more. Suffice to say that I wince whenever Sargent gets a knock and Barnes's age is against him on the injury front.

There's always Argos the supersub as well.

Edited August 21, 2023 by BroadstairsR

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,846]

1 hour ago, Ernie Wise said:

I struggle to understand the love in for Sorensen. Wagner’s style is a dynamic, front foot, all action and dynamic way. 
Sorensen always looks a neat and tidy footballer but always seems to be too laid back and seems to slow the game down. He would be more suited to a Farke NCFC style. He was not up to the role of centre back last season even allowing for the poor performances of the team in general. 
I would like to have a more Wagneresque type of midfielder to be the back up if Kenny or Sara are unavailable.

Agreed. At the moment he's the fifth midfielder, but also probably the third right back, fourth left back and sixth centre back. I'd be happy to let him go and sign someone better suited to Wagner's style. 

[BigFish 1,988]

28 minutes ago, S_81 said:

As for defensive mid - you telling me McClean isn’t tasked with such duties? I think we can do better than him. 

Do you watch the games or understand the tactics. Typically a CDM sits in front of of the back 4 and shields the two centre backs. The job is to get the ball to a creative player rather than create. Under Wagner we play more with a back 2 and a double pivot if front. The double pivot is the creative fulcrum of the team. Play a Tettey or a Skipp and the whole thing falls apart. Defensively we adapt to a whole team pressing approach to compensate.

[Yobocop 1,105]

We’re in the envious position that any new players may upset the apple cart but a few loans would be superb 

[S_81 829]

44 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Do you watch the games or understand the tactics. Typically a CDM sits in front of of the back 4 and shields the two centre backs. The job is to get the ball to a creative player rather than create. Under Wagner we play more with a back 2 and a double pivot if front. The double pivot is the creative fulcrum of the team. Play a Tettey or a Skipp and the whole thing falls apart. Defensively we adapt to a whole team pressing approach to compensate.

I do watch the games, yes. And I hear what you’re saying - but I still think the best teams and the best managers have a blend of players and are willing to adapt their system when required to beat the opposition. There will be times this season, and indeed already have been, when having a more defensively minded midfielder than McClean would be beneficial. 

[Ken Hairy 3,779]

A specialised CDM is really needed for some games in this league, and a better option off the bench in attack, yes I'm aware Idah scored 2 weeks ago but it's really noticeable the big drop in quality in the overall attacking play when he comes on.

[Ken Hairy 3,779]

1 hour ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

...indeed, the current midfield us fine when youre controlling a midfield vs a poor Millwall....but a proper CDM is required when defending a lead away at Southampton

100% this,  not sure why so many don't get it.

[Ken Hairy 3,779]

1 hour ago, BigFish said:

Do you watch the games or understand the tactics. Typically a CDM sits in front of of the back 4 and shields the two centre backs. The job is to get the ball to a creative player rather than create. Under Wagner we play more with a back 2 and a double pivot if front. The double pivot is the creative fulcrum of the team. Play a Tettey or a Skipp and the whole thing falls apart. Defensively we adapt to a whole team pressing approach to compensate.

So you mean exactly the sort of player that would have been required to protect a 4-3 lead away to oh I don't know, someone like Southampton?

[Thirsty Lizard 3,181]

Read the thread title and assumed it was a eulogy to the improved fitness regime at the club (with the exception of the slow and muscle bound Jonathan Rowe of course...................)

Edited August 21, 2023 by Thirsty Lizard