Sargent off to Leeds?

[nutty nigel 7,537]

Much the same as the pre world cup video this is not 'the club' trying to sell Josh. It's about the American market seeing how 'our club' would be a great place for an ambitious young player to be.

That's why 'our club' has so much publicity around Sara and Portuguese social media.

 

[Badger 2,405]

Contract? Am i right in saying that it expires in 2025? In other words unless we go up this year, we are likely to have to let him go in the summer at a reduced fee - it's always the problem - should we have sold Max/ Todd earlier?

If we were to get a really good offer - £15 million, I think that we would have to consider it and hope that we could find a replacement.

[Badger 2,405]

3 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Much the same as the pre world cup video this is not 'the club' trying to sell Josh. It's about the American market seeing how 'our club' would be a great place for an ambitious young player to be.

That's why 'our club' has so much publicity around Sara and Portuguese social media.

 

Yes! Apparently it was one of the reasons why the Bournemouth owner was so keen to get Tyler Adams to help commercially in the US.

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

I think if we sold Sargent given the start and the return of so much optimism plus the dent that would make to any promotion charge.. would be it for me whilst the current owners where in charge. It would be an appalling decision up there with the selling of Emi.

We need to be getting him on a much improved contract so that he stays.

His improvement as a number 9 will only see him easily break the 20 plus goal barrier this season. You can not replace that with £15m.

I get in the future he will probably go on to bigger things but the effect on the club after 2 morale sapping seasons would be dreadful imo...

[yellowrider120 763]

2 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

I take it if Rowe is still here when the windows slams shut you will hold your hands up and apologise for pant-wetting?

Where did I say Rowe was going to be sold this window? Point I was making is that if the boy continues how he's started then he will be sold and PDQ! Now with the window shutting soon, I doubt that will be this time round but in January..............??? 

[Ernie Wise 65]

1 hour ago, Kenny Foggo said:

I think if we sold Sargent given the start and the return of so much optimism plus the dent that would make to any promotion charge.. would be it for me whilst the current owners where in charge. It would be an appalling decision up there with the selling of Emi.

We need to be getting him on a much improved contract so that he stays.

His improvement as a number 9 will only see him easily break the 20 plus goal barrier this season. You can not replace that with £15m.

I get in the future he will probably go on to bigger things but the effect on the club after 2 morale sapping seasons would be dreadful imo...

Why do people still go on about Buendia’s departure as something to beat the club with. 
He wanted out after relegation and was dropped for the game at Bournemouth, along with Cantwell. He was only brought back into the team when he was promised a move at the end of the season. And that is what happened so be grateful that he stayed and was so vital in gaining promotion.

[king canary 7,607]

11 minutes ago, Ernie Wise said:

And that is what happened

Well the reason people still talk about it is that we don't know that is what happened. In fact reputable sources have specifically denied there was any promise that he could move.

[hogesar 9,676]

1 minute ago, king canary said:

Well the reason people still talk about it is that we don't know that is what happened. In fact reputable sources have specifically denied there was any promise that he could move.

To be fair only a select few still mention Emi and its normally those who are clinging desperately for something to hate Webber for after what, for now at least, looks to be another incredibly good transfer window under him.

Don't hold me to this but I think Farke recently without naming specifically, effectively used Emi as an example of someone who wanted out and he'd rather want out of the club and the money in as part of the ongoing issues at Leeds.

[chicken 2,627]

24 minutes ago, king canary said:

Well the reason people still talk about it is that we don't know that is what happened. In fact reputable sources have specifically denied there was any promise that he could move.

You mean the reputable sources that the same sort of fans have been largely calling a liar since? I think I am right in saying that he didn't feature back in the team as soon as Cantwell and it was either much closer to the deadline or it had past by the time he did.

It's funny how people will actively tell other people they are wrong and that no one really knows what happened but then in the same post suggest that their info is much more reliable...

That info was one Stuart Webber wasn't it? And I believe the question he answered was more around an "agreement". Thing is, he is never going to come out and say yes is he? That gives carte blanche to other players to do the same or to demand similar.

We have been here before, and the thing is, we only know a few things for absolute certainty. Buendia wanted out that summer after relegation. Buendia gave interviews that season to, I believe Argentinian media, stating he had ambitions to be playing at a higher level than us (Norwich). Farke said in various interviews that he wasn't "focused", he remained "unfocused" longer than Cantwell. 

He was then sold in the summer, with some rumours of interest in January AND in the summer before, when he lost focus.

All of that is well reported and pretty much confirmed as fact by multiple sources. Farke may even have been ill advised to have come out and said what he did at the time, but there you have it.

Whether or not there was an agreement, or whether the club just dug it's heels in, or interest failed to materialised etc, is all immaterial really. The club dug in, didn't actively put him up for sale and along with Farke, played hard ball with him to get him back on the pitch and arguably play the best football of his career to date.

However, ALL of this, despite being common knowledge, HAS to be ignored, if you want to have the stick to beat the club with that is "no one sells their best player upon promotion" (even if now, Shef Utd have said hold my beer). Because that requires everyone to pretend the entire previous summer didn't happen and that the opposing argument is that you sell your best players upon relegation... which ultimately, had we have done, would likely have cost us promotion again.

And then ultimately the question would be - promotion with Buendia but without him in the premier league Vs a chunk of money to spend in the championship in the hope we can rebuild the squad and get promoted without him.

For me, I would take the premier league. Got to give the top league a go. You never know if you will continue to challenge for it or not.

As I said last season, I wonder if we would feel come the end of last season, whether we should have gone fore more of an overhaul last summer. Pukki, Cantwell, Dowell  - all sold then and there considering that we knew they would be unlikely to sign new contracts or, in the case of Dowell and Cantwell, really give us much on the pitch. Bit more money in the coffers in both wages and fees. You could possibly add Byram and Sinani in there too. Perhaps one or two others.

That said, would we have had this summer, which is looking decent early doors? 

[king canary 7,607]

1 minute ago, chicken said:

You mean the reputable sources that the same sort of fans have been largely calling a liar since? I think I am right in saying that he didn't feature back in the team as soon as Cantwell and it was either much closer to the deadline or it had past by the time he did.

It's funny how people will actively tell other people they are wrong and that no one really knows what happened but then in the same post suggest that their info is much more reliable...

That info was one Stuart Webber wasn't it? And I believe the question he answered was more around an "agreement". Thing is, he is never going to come out and say yes is he? That gives carte blanche to other players to do the same or to demand similar.

We have been here before, and the thing is, we only know a few things for absolute certainty. Buendia wanted out that summer after relegation. Buendia gave interviews that season to, I believe Argentinian media, stating he had ambitions to be playing at a higher level than us (Norwich). Farke said in various interviews that he wasn't "focused", he remained "unfocused" longer than Cantwell. 

He was then sold in the summer, with some rumours of interest in January AND in the summer before, when he lost focus.

All of that is well reported and pretty much confirmed as fact by multiple sources. Farke may even have been ill advised to have come out and said what he did at the time, but there you have it.

Whether or not there was an agreement, or whether the club just dug it's heels in, or interest failed to materialised etc, is all immaterial really. The club dug in, didn't actively put him up for sale and along with Farke, played hard ball with him to get him back on the pitch and arguably play the best football of his career to date.

However, ALL of this, despite being common knowledge, HAS to be ignored, if you want to have the stick to beat the club with that is "no one sells their best player upon promotion" (even if now, Shef Utd have said hold my beer). Because that requires everyone to pretend the entire previous summer didn't happen and that the opposing argument is that you sell your best players upon relegation... which ultimately, had we have done, would likely have cost us promotion again.

And then ultimately the question would be - promotion with Buendia but without him in the premier league Vs a chunk of money to spend in the championship in the hope we can rebuild the squad and get promoted without him.

For me, I would take the premier league. Got to give the top league a go. You never know if you will continue to challenge for it or not.

As I said last season, I wonder if we would feel come the end of last season, whether we should have gone fore more of an overhaul last summer. Pukki, Cantwell, Dowell  - all sold then and there considering that we knew they would be unlikely to sign new contracts or, in the case of Dowell and Cantwell, really give us much on the pitch. Bit more money in the coffers in both wages and fees. You could possibly add Byram and Sinani in there too. Perhaps one or two others.

That said, would we have had this summer, which is looking decent early doors? 

TLDR.

My point was simply that the person I quoted said 'that's what happened.'

My point is we have conflicting reports of what happened so it can't just be neatly tied up like that.

[nutty nigel 7,537]

Well what we do know is that when we sign these players we market our club as one who would let them move on if they out grow us. We moan about it when that happens without acknowledging that's how we signed them in the first place.

I don't think Josh has outgrown us. His best season was last season with 13 goals. He's scored 2 so far this season. I've said from the start that I think he'll get twenty+ this season. If that happens and we are still in the champs then we may have a fight to keep him.

[RobJames 881]

10 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Well what we do know is that when we sign these players we market our club as one who would let them move on if they out grow us. We moan about it when that happens without acknowledging that's how we signed them in the first place.

I don't think Josh has outgrown us. His best season was last season with 13 goals. He's scored 2 so far this season. I've said from the start that I think he'll get twenty+ this season. If that happens and we are still in the champs then we may have a fight to keep him.

Wise words, as with Chicken (above). Or maybe they seem wise when set against the idiots who post otherwise. Those who believe that all players are sold against their will. Whereas many are sold contractually (release fee) or reluctantly by us (they want to go).

If it became known that we would do anything to block a player's move, more so to a more lucrative deal, then where would we stand in the football world ?  'Outgrown us' probably comes as near to explaining so much. Just as Fisher, Gibbs and the host of promising youngsters signed this summer outgrew their previous clubs. That is the nature of the beast.  We are not a 'fattening up farm' where weeners are brought in to be fattened by before being taken to market. It is just signing players with promise is a cost effective way of getting quality players. And as we are not top of the ladder when they reach that standard there is every chance they will want to move on.  Aside from the money, look at the time we got from the Murphys, Lewis, Buendia and Gordon.  It is not often recognised how a few seasons in the PL can set up a player for life. Would you not take that chance? And it may only be a few years, if that. Dean Ashton.

A point that seems to be overlooked in our summer signings is how quickly we moved for our Last of the Summer Wine signings. Duffy, Barnes and Stacey. They did not come cheap. The deal must have been so good they signed immediately rather than hanging on to see what else came up.

No club ever gets it right all the time, as there are so many variables when signing a player. But perhaps a measure of your support is whether you recognise this and choose to focus on the positives.  Those being us as a relatively small club with genuine owners who over the last 13 years have kept us around the top of the Championship or PL status. Sure we have been relegated, but then without relegation the first time we would not have won at Wembley, been title winners and had that glorious and meaningful last minute goal v Derby as well, either.

So here we are sitting third (dodgy penalties stopping us being top), and looking as good as ever. And maybe having another tilt at the title is far, far better than scrabbling around in the bottom half of the PL deluding ourselves that we are living the dream and clubs like us have a chance of the title.

[Monty13 2,234]

2 hours ago, hogesar said:

To be fair only a select few still mention Emi and its normally those who are clinging desperately for something to hate Webber for after what, for now at least, looks to be another incredibly good transfer window under him.

Don't hold me to this but I think Farke recently without naming specifically, effectively used Emi as an example of someone who wanted out and he'd rather want out of the club and the money in as part of the ongoing issues at Leeds.

Behave, I don’t hate Webber neither do plenty of others. But Emi and that summer is by far the biggest error of his tenure.

This summer seems (bar Sainz injury) to have gone pretty perfectly to plan and he deserves massive credit, but there’s a long way to go to make up for just how poor the last two seasons have been.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

The right way to approach this is to put yourself in the shoes of Sargent's agent and ask yourself what might he be thinking. I think he my be thinking something along the lines that his client has the potential to play at a Premier league level and there are at least a dozen clubs where he could do a job. Next I would be thinking how do I get him into one of these clubs for the greatest amount of money.

So do I recommend my client a move to a big club like Leeds which might get promoted or at least provide a stepping stone to the next level? We Leeds have just been relegated and are languishing in fourteenth position in the Championship, though it is early days. Though they do have a new manager who requires time to turn the club around - which is currently facing internal dissent from want-away stars. And even if my guy did move there it would be as a second choice striker, and might not get the game time to rack up the goal tally that would attract bigger clubs.

On the other hand, I could advise my client to stay at the club where is the main striker, found his goal-boots are doing the job, in a team that is currently third in the table where everyone is pulling in the same direction with a coach who has set the team up to play to my guy's strengths.

It's really a no-brainer. I could get a better offer now but would put at risk the chances of a much bigger payout in one or two seasons from now. My guy is much improved since he joined NCFC and if he continues his progress then his value is going to way outstrip the value that is currently being bandied about. As his agent, I would be telling Sargent to stay where he is and keep up the good work.

[Capt. Pants 4,236]

If I was Sarge's agent I'd be looking at my cut of a fairly chunky transfer fee to Leeds and also my cut of his likely increased wages and image rights.

Aren't Leeds US owned now (49 ers)? There must be a lucrative market for shirts etc.

It's all about the here and now so from an NCFC perspective we insist on a transfer fee way more than he's worth. The question for Leeds is is he really worth that much money for a striker yet to hit 20 goals?

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

8 hours ago, Monty13 said:

Behave, I don’t hate Webber neither do plenty of others. But Emi and that summer is by far the biggest error of his tenure.

This summer seems (bar Sainz injury) to have gone pretty perfectly to plan and he deserves massive credit, but there’s a long way to go to make up for just how poor the last two seasons have been.

 

8 hours ago, Monty13 said:

Behave, I don’t hate Webber neither do plenty of others. But Emi and that summer is by far the biggest error of his tenure.

This summer seems (bar Sainz injury) to have gone pretty perfectly to plan and he deserves massive credit, but there’s a long way to go to make up for just how poor the last two seasons have been.

Hate Webber? People need to grow up. You can have an opinion about someone without "hating". He gets somethings right and some things wrong. It's not either love or hate.

With Emi there is no concrete evidence that he was promised a move and people with access to these things tell me different sides to the story when the club mives on players. It's all part of selling a player and making it easier for the fan base imo. 

Emi was used as, in my opinion an example of the effect of selling Sargent, notthing more nothing less.. I believe it would have a similar effect and indeed Barnes has already come out to say what a great player he is. How do you replace a 20 plus goal player with £15m late on in the window? You don't... 

Unfortunate there a few on here (we all know them) who attempt to shut down or ridicule opinions different to them. In their eyes what the club says is alway true. 

I know that not to be true.

[Highland Canary 76]

If and until we have an ownership with greater wealth all we can look forward to is the disposal of key assets regardless of whether such a disposal helps a key competitor. You couldn’t make it up.

[Essjayess 307]

4 minutes ago, Highland Canary said:

If and until we have an ownership with greater wealth all we can look forward to is the disposal of key assets regardless of whether such a disposal helps a key competitor. You couldn’t make it up.

If we had ownership with greater wealth we would still have an issue of disposal of key assests...happens all the time, even at clubs in the Prem with huge super rich owners.

[hogesar 9,676]

9 hours ago, Monty13 said:

Behave, I don’t hate Webber neither do plenty of others. But Emi and that summer is by far the biggest error of his tenure.

This summer seems (bar Sainz injury) to have gone pretty perfectly to plan and he deserves massive credit, but there’s a long way to go to make up for just how poor the last two seasons have been.

So two title wins then two poor seasons = long way to make up for the two poor seasons?

Recency bias. Its a problem with football fans.

You might not hate Webber in which case the post is nothing to do with you anyway but there's a huge list of fans that do, on here alone. It only takes a little search 😉

[hogesar 9,676]

29 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

 

Hate Webber? People need to grow up. You can have an opinion about someone without "hating". He gets somethings right and some things wrong. It's not either love or hate.

With Emi there is no concrete evidence that he was promised a move and people with access to these things tell me different sides to the story when the club mives on players. It's all part of selling a player and making it easier for the fan base imo. 

Emi was used as, in my opinion an example of the effect of selling Sargent, notthing more nothing less.. I believe it would have a similar effect and indeed Barnes has already come out to say what a great player he is. How do you replace a 20 plus goal player with £15m late on in the window? You don't... 

Unfortunate there a few on here (we all know them) who attempt to shut down or ridicule opinions different to them. In their eyes what the club says is alway true. 

I know that not to be true.

The revisionism 😅😅😅

I wonder if your posting history backs up such a balanced view?

Or was it all crowing about hating the guy etc midway through last season?

I cba to even check but I'm guessing I wouldn't be shocked if I looked...

 

OK a two second search and

"I CANT STAND WEBBER"

"I DONT LIKE WEBBER ONE BIT"

"I DISLIKE WEBBER"

😅😅

Edited August 23, 2023 by hogesar

[king canary 7,607]

1 minute ago, hogesar said:

Recency bias. Its a problem with football fans

Errrm...the clearest example of recency bias is those christening Webber brilliant again after 3 games. 

[hogesar 9,676]

Just now, king canary said:

Errrm...the clearest example of recency bias is those christening Webber brilliant again after 3 games. 

Not if you didn't think he was rubbish previous to that though...

[essex canary 496]

All Clubs have to trade players. Some Clubs have owners who will fund deficits over long periods. Others do not though maybe, unlike ours, they may help short term with an incoming transfer. Our model leads to a higher balance of resource spent on Wages rather than Transfers because self funding logic works not only year to year but month to month.

It now works better when we have less money to spend as it help focuses the mind better on how to spend it as we are now proving. Good to see a blend between youth, experience and mid career players that have got us off to a great start.

[king canary 7,607]

2 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Not if you didn't think he was rubbish previous to that though...

No, it's still recency bias as your giving undue weight to the recent. 

Anyone looking at his whole tenure would likely have to conclude its been a mixed bag rather than brilliant, even if we get promoted again on the back of a good summer window.

[hogesar 9,676]

1 minute ago, king canary said:

No, it's still recency bias as your giving undue weight to the recent. 

Anyone looking at his whole tenure would likely have to conclude its been a mixed bag rather than brilliant, even if we get promoted again on the back of a good summer window.

For a club of our size from where we were as a club - on the pitch and off it - most neutrals would say, in my view, a pretty big success.

Also, I'm not the one giving undue weight to the recent. It's all those who have suddenly claimed they don't dislike Webber at all, unfortunately posting history and all..

Edited August 23, 2023 by hogesar

[Bert 236]

Pant wetters he isn’t going anywhere this window 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

 

 

51 minutes ago, king canary said:

Errrm...the clearest example of recency bias is those christening Webber brilliant again after 3 games. 

Is it people christening him brilliant again, or is it the same people who thought he was brilliant being a bit more vocal and his detractors being a bit quieter?

[jaberry2 550]

God I hate Leeds chat, albeit they seem to be interested in Cameron Archer.

[Samwam27 527]

Alan Nixon reporting this morning that Leeds are about to bid £15m for Joel Piroe at Swansea.

The rumours continue

[jaberry2 550]

3 minutes ago, Samwam27 said:

Alan Nixon reporting this morning that Leeds are about to bid £15m for Joel Piroe at Swansea.

The rumours continue

Just seen on skysports transfer centre. I suspect there was no genuine interest in Sargeant in the first place.