Have to say Tzolis is looking much fitter and sharper

[Jim Smith 2,540]

This pre season. I hope he will be given a chance rather than loaned out. He could potentially have his breakthrough season for us if he can get a bit of confidence and belief into his game. 

[Petriix 3,143]

I'll always retain hope that he'll be given a run of games in the team. I think there's a top level player hiding in there, severely lacking in confidence and suffering massively from having played minimal competitive football while the club has been falling apart around him.

If only that penalty had gone in... 

[canarycop 232]

8 minutes ago, Petriix said:

I'll always retain hope that he'll be given a run of games in the team. I think there's a top level player hiding in there, severely lacking in confidence and suffering massively from having played minimal competitive football while the club has been falling apart around him.

If only that penalty had gone in... 

If only that had gone in !! He was hung out to dry by our then manager who instead of putting an arm round his shoulder exorcised him from the team cos he didn't do as he was told. No wonder all his confidence was shot. Young lad new country trying to impress. You'd have thought he was called Nelson Oliveira

[Ulfotto 773]

What if he had let Idah take it as agreed?

[Ken Hairy 4,272]

Just now, Ulfotto said:

What if he had let Idah take it as agreed?

He'd have missed too

[RobJames 922]

I don't subscribe to this 'confidence' stuff. Talk to those playing at a reasonable level and they will say it is about commitment.  If you are motivated, then you are firing on all guns. It looks as if Wagener has got the squad committed again. . As to Tzolis, I believe he is better in a more central role, and getting into the box. If you watch his play there is certainly a player there. A very competent player, who has not been used properly. A loan out would be a waste.

[Michael Starr 568]

Can we unlock his potential? I'm going to say yes, this season.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

5 hours ago, Petriix said:

.If only that penalty had gone in... 

5 hours ago, canarycop said:

If only that had gone in !! 

I know it’s nice to dream and hold on to something for one of our players, and don’t want to knock the idea of hoping he’ll come good because clearly we all very much want that, but I think it’s wishful thinking to think that a single scored penalty would somehow have changed his entire trajectory as a player. Every player misses penalties. Every player has set backs.

Yes Farke was harsh on him. But this is the same manager who consistently got the best out of our youngsters, it was probably his best trait. Tzolis was far from finished at the point of discipline but he clearly didn’t react the right way behind the scenes. And then he came back last season and looked physically unfit for even the lower level - is that really all because he missed a penalty?

It’s a similar thing with the RvW penalty that never was, I’m 100% sure that he still would’ve flopped regardless of Snodgrass snatching the ball.

If a player’s mentality is so poor to just keel over after every minor setback, then it’s always going to happen at some point.

If the penalty had gone the way you want they’d have just been another inconvenience a week or two later that would’ve become their new ‘what if’ moment.

Sorry but he’s just been nowhere near good enough, that’s it, no feelings of ‘what if’ from me whatsoever, but of course I hope all parties can put that right this season!

[canarydan23 4,699]

What is your name all about @Hank shoots Skyler? Is there an episode of Breaking Bad that I missed?

[Google Bot 3,847]

1 hour ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

I think it’s wishful thinking to think that a single scored penalty would somehow have changed his entire trajectory as a player. Every player misses penalties. Every player has set backs.

I'm pretty sure Farke played him shortly afterwards too?

I don't think the pen really upset too much but it didn't help his reputation either.  But the flip if he DID score that pen, everyone could be talking about him so differently today - it was a sliding doors moment if you consider both outcomes, not the single.

For me it's a simple case that he was very young, and still is now - people who parade around saying he's done nothing, and claim he's **** are failing to see what he's good at and the potential that's there.

And as much as those haters will disagree, He's not had the minutes, and number of starts to do anything, he's still only 21.

We may see him flourish this season, but if he does he's got to get ahead of Rowe (Which I don't agree with personally), and after that you'd imagine that the wide positions are going to be held by Sainz and Fassnacht.  There's always the very slim possibility that Rashica is here too.   

So.. It's going to be really tough and he needs to seize any opportunity.

The other issue is, because of the praised heaped on him and price paid, everyone just gives him **** - we were all told he's one for the future and wouldn't be rushed yet everyone just ignores that and slates him for some reason.  Same people who will then jump to Idah and Rowe's defence, which just seems weird to me, they're all our young players and we need to get behind them all.

For me he's quality, and if the next man can't see it then all you can hope is that he gets the minutes, gets the starts and played to his strengths.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Google Bot

[canarybubbles 2,158]

I think there's a case for keeping Rowe/Springett and Tzolis because for me they have different skill sets. Rowe and Springett are both very energetic, dynamic players who will get around the pitch, press hard, and (in Rowe's case, especially) dribble and hold onto the ball, but neither of them shows the kind of pin-point accuracy and weight of pass that Tzolis showed, for example, in the pass to Gibbs which let the latter put in a ball that Fassnacht almost connected with, or the straight pass from the wing to Fassnacht for his narrow miss. Tzolis isn't fast and he's not a dribbler but I think he has better overall vision of what is happening in the final third. I guess what I'm ultimately saying is the same as what a lot of other people are saying: he isn't really a winger, but more of an inside forward or attacking midfielder.

Only the club can decide on whether a loan would benefit any of them, but I find it hard to see how being shipped out to another English club would help Tzolis, who seems to have had trouble adapting to the UK (although this wasn't helped by Smith's insisting that he wouldn't play him so he was shipped out to the Netherlands). 

He didn't help himself with the penalty incident, but we haven't exactly handled him well as a 19-year-old from a different country coming to the UK. To his and Wagner's credit, he is no longer a lump of lard.

I think he now needs time to settle in. Let's hope he comes good because at the moment IMO we need people with his skill set.

[Jim Smith 2,540]

As an aside, there is no way that Idah goal that was disallowed was offside btw. Dimi was miles on. 

[canarybubbles 2,158]

20 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

As an aside, there is no way that Idah goal that was disallowed was offside btw. Dimi was miles on. 

Agreed. I found quite a few of the offside decisions questionable during the game.

What you can't see from the camera angles is whether Idah was offside when Giannoulis hit the pass. Gia was so close to the line, though, that it seems unlikely.

[hogesar 10,536]

57 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

As an aside, there is no way that Idah goal that was disallowed was offside btw. Dimi was miles on. 

Yeah I really couldn't see where the offside was!

[jaberry2 768]

He was looking rather on the unfit and un-sharp of things last season. Sounds like he and others have bought into the whole new fitness regime, which should hopefully pay dividends this season.

[Capt. Pants 4,882]

I'd like to hear both sides of the story as to what went on Twente, why the loan finished early and why Christos came back looking like a sack of sh1t.

Wagner has probably done just that and is giving the player a chance in pre season. If he's still here when the transfer window closes then it's looking a bit better for him. If he goes out on loan again then I fear that might be the end of his chances here.

There's plenty of space in our squad, 9 subs, a long season etc etc, so down to Christos really.

[canarybubbles 2,158]

Does anyone know for sure when the final moment is for announcing our final squad? As soon as the transfer window closes?

[greendoor 21]

I have watched the highlights of the recent game and would agree with the Op, Tzolis did look much fitter and sharper than I've seen before.

I especially thought that he linked up well with Giannoulis, when he was playing from the left. This combination should have had an assist for the Idah goal, I cant for the life of me see how that was offside. On the whole, he was unlucky as for a bit of better finishing from our forwards, he could have had a few assists. 

 

[Midlands Yellow 4,672]

There has to be a player there for what we forked out for him. Maybe just a goal or assist away from showing us how good he can be. 

[Yellow and Green 351]

10 minutes ago, greendoor said:

I have watched the highlights of the recent game and would agree with the Op, Tzolis did look much fitter and sharper than I've seen before.

I especially thought that he linked up well with Giannoulis, when he was playing from the left. This combination should have had an assist for the Idah goal, I cant for the life of me see how that was offside. On the whole, he was unlucky as for a bit of better finishing from our forwards, he could have had a few assists. 

 

Agreed. He was making quick, intelligent decisions and finding good positions.

It's worth remembering how young he is, and how difficult it is to play in a struggling side. We've been rubbish ever since he joined and the team in general have lacked confidence. Webber noted this when discussing Rashica.

I'd be gutted if we sold/loaned him out. My fear is that we need the money and he is one of our few sellable assets. Added to that, we have a number of left wingers, who he hasn't been able to outperform to date. I doubt Wagner would bank on him being our first choice winger, with Sainz and Fass starting and Hernandez being close behind.

[Google Bot 3,847]

Wagner said that Tzolis was going to play full match with U21's as needed fitness, yet didn't play vs Ipswich.

Whass gorn'un?!

[Terminally Yellow 2,614]

9 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Wagner said that Tzolis was going to play full match with U21's as needed fitness, yet didn't play vs Ipswich.

Whass gorn'un?!

He played 90 Vs Brighton. Guessing he's now involved in match day squad contention. 

[Google Bot 3,847]

4 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

He played 90 Vs Brighton. Guessing he's now involved in match day squad contention. 

Ah ok, thanks for that.  I didn't realise it was it was the same weekend.  Found it on the site now.

He looks really ecstatic, I must say

[ged in the onion bag 955]

On 27/07/2023 at 10:34, Yellow and Green said:

Agreed. He was making quick, intelligent decisions and finding good positions.

It's worth remembering how young he is, and how difficult it is to play in a struggling side. We've been rubbish ever since he joined and the team in general have lacked confidence. Webber noted this when discussing Rashica.

I'd be gutted if we sold/loaned him out. My fear is that we need the money and he is one of our few sellable assets. Added to that, we have a number of left wingers, who he hasn't been able to outperform to date. I doubt Wagner would bank on him being our first choice winger, with Sainz and Fass starting and Hernandez being close behind.

I can't think of a player treated worse by this club than Tzolis.    It's shameful how he's been handled.   We've probably ruined his career, certainly destroyed his confidence.    Our recruitment got it wrong, now our coaches have failed him.   If he has deficiencies, we should have addressed them with coaching by now but since he keeps being left out, why do they keep putting him back on the fringes then discarding him.    Surely decisions should have been made by now as to where he sits in the order.    Or are the club just keeping him in the frame in the vain hope some club will take him.     Disgraceful.  

Feel for the lad.   

[RobJames 922]

Yes, you are right. The club should be condemned for forcing him to play badly, just so no other clubs will be interested in him and so we cannot, err sell him ................. to get some money back. Or something like that. Oh, I forgot. We have probably ruined his career, as well.

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,577]

27 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

I can't think of a player treated worse by this club than Tzolis.    It's shameful how he's been handled.   We've probably ruined his career, certainly destroyed his confidence.    Our recruitment got it wrong, now our coaches have failed him.   If he has deficiencies, we should have addressed them with coaching by now but since he keeps being left out, why do they keep putting him back on the fringes then discarding him.    Surely decisions should have been made by now as to where he sits in the order.    Or are the club just keeping him in the frame in the vain hope some club will take him.     Disgraceful.  

Feel for the lad.   

Tzolis doesn’t have the required ability for English football. That’s the harsh reality. 

He clearly had ability at a young age, but hasn’t kicked on. I don’t see any club in a decent European league being interested in him. And I don’t think he has the application to succeed at lower level here.

I really don’t see where he goes from here. He could be seeing out a very long contract - is it 3 years left?

[Danke bitte 1,147]

15 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

Tzolis doesn’t have the required ability for English football. That’s the harsh reality. 

He clearly had ability at a young age, but hasn’t kicked on. I don’t see any club in a decent European league being interested in him. And I don’t think he has the application to succeed at lower level here.

I really don’t see where he goes from here. He could be seeing out a very long contract - is it 3 years left?

He’s doing a “Van Wolfswinkel”. And we’ll end up letting him go for £100, 000 to someone..

[Google Bot 3,847]

24 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

Tzolis doesn’t have the required ability for English football. That’s the harsh reality. 

Strongly disagree, he's far more refined in regards to ability than players like Idah and Rowe who have been put in wide positions over him.

Smart player, can pick a pass and has wonderful ball control.  We've completely neglected giving him gametime and everyone saying he doesn't look match fit - wonder why that is.

He played 3 league matches for over 45 mins last season, and 3 over 45 mins the season before.  that's 6 starts in two years.

The ONLY full game he's played for us was in the cup where we smashed Bournemouth 6-0, and he walked off as man of the match.  And yet we still persist with players who run into the corner flag and sing their praises cause they're "ours" seems to be the mindset of many.

Like Smith, there's fans that just won't take to Tzolis for whatever reason, and it's a real shame.  The guy has talent, he's never sulked about being overlooked considering where his career was heading before coming here, and yet he just gets **** on.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Google Bot

[hogesar 10,536]

Rowe looks 3x the player of Tzolis.

People are just desperate because he cost a lot of money.

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,577]

1 hour ago, Google Bot said:

Strongly disagree, he's far more refined in regards to ability than players like Idah and Rowe who have been put in wide positions over him.

Smart player, can pick a pass and has wonderful ball control.  We've completely neglected giving him gametime and everyone saying he doesn't look match fit - wonder why that is.

He played 3 league matches for over 45 mins last season, and 3 over 45 mins the season before.  that's 6 starts in two years.

The ONLY full game he's played for us was in the cup where we smashed Bournemouth 6-0, and he walked off as man of the match.  And yet we still persist with players who run into the corner flag and sing their praises cause they're "ours" seems to be the mindset of many.

Like Smith, there's fans that just won't take to Tzolis for whatever reason, and it's a real shame.  The guy has talent, he's never sulked about being overlooked considering where his career was heading before coming here, and yet he just gets **** on.

Three managers in a row haven’t fancied him. 

What does that say?