Have to say Tzolis is looking much fitter and sharper

[ZLF 275]

For years fans have given youngsters coming through or bought a hard time, whether it's morris, the murphys, lewis, idah or even last season aarons.  Its also ironic some blindly support one while laying into another.

Tzolis arrived at the worst possible time, relegation season, horrendous atmosphere last preseason and an end of season under wagner that sapped the confidence of every player.  He may not end up justifying his fee but as a young player in a new culture (on and off the pitch) its no surprise he may tale a while to adjust, even seasoned pros can take a season to show their best. Reading the runes (guess) he won't make the game squad on sat, how he reacts is something we don't see and can only speculate and invent about.

We have to start with a fresh slate this season, whoever makes the starting xi we need to get behind and give them our support, at least for the first 6-10 games.  

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by ZLF
To clarify game squad meaning.

[shefcanary 2,466]

8 minutes ago, ZLF said:

Reading the runes (guess) he won't make the game squad, how he reacts is something we don't see and can only speculate and invent about.

Er, he's still only 20, so under EFL rules he doesn't have to be named in the squad. Quite a few people writing off a 20 year old here ...

[Google Bot 3,329]

7 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Tzolis is a far less exciting player to watch than Rowe, so your point re fans being bored doesn't make sense here.

Subjectively speaking, of course as I find him far more exciting, but it's all about what you like of course.

8 minutes ago, hogesar said:

We're not pushing Rashica. He doesn't want to be here. He doesn't want to play Championship football. His agent made that abundantly clear.

He joined us to play prem league football and our management failed to deliver, resulting in fans slagging off players like Rashica and Tzolis. 

Then, rather than working with both players to get them up for the championship season ahead they failed once again and pushed them BOTH out on loan, leaving us without any wide players for the season and once again tarnishing Idah and Sarge's reps.

Pukki and Aaron's didn't want to be here either, Pukki's agent openly discussing his desire to leave, Pukki later saying he had fallen out of love with the game.

Is that indicative of good management for you?  Smith was an absolute car crash.

Anyway... This is growing spectacularly from me making the point that you can't write a young player off as lacking ability to play football over here without seeing make a single league start, but that's how it goes I guess.

[ZLF 275]

6 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

Er, he's still only 20, so under EFL rules he doesn't have to be named in the squad. Quite a few people writing off a 20 year old here ...

To be clear I meant Sat's game squad, he'll def be in our season list of players.  Not writing him off at all.

Edited August 3, 2023 by ZLF

[hogesar 9,760]

7 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Subjectively speaking, of course as I find him far more exciting, but it's all about what you like of course.

He joined us to play prem league football and our management failed to deliver, resulting in fans slagging off players like Rashica and Tzolis. 

Then, rather than working with both players to get them up for the championship season ahead they failed once again and pushed them BOTH out on loan, leaving us without any wide players for the season and once again tarnishing Idah and Sarge's reps.

Pukki and Aaron's didn't want to be here either, Pukki's agent openly discussing his desire to leave, Pukki later saying he had fallen out of love with the game.

Is that indicative of good management for you?  Smith was an absolute car crash.

Anyway... This is growing spectacularly from me making the point that you can't write a young player off as lacking ability to play football over here without seeing make a single league start, but that's how it goes I guess.

We didn't push him out on loan, his agent forced it. We even started him in the Championship until that move came up (he was useless in those games too).

He joined us knowing there's a really good chance we might get relegated. If not he's thick. 

Also it wasn't just our management failing to deliver, he was part of the failure.

[Google Bot 3,329]

2 minutes ago, hogesar said:

We didn't push him out on loan, his agent forced it. We even started him in the Championship until that move came up (he was useless in those games too).

We pushed both Rashica and Tzolis out on loan.  Pathetic if you think it's good management allowing agents to decide what we do with our contracted players.

Smith was a car wreck and couldn't motivate or had the skillset to develop either player, and they went out as they had value and someone wanted them is the truth of the matter.

Pukki and Aarons wanted out to give you a demonstration of how **** things were.

[canarybubbles 1,946]

37 minutes ago, hogesar said:

We're not pushing Rashica. He doesn't want to be here. He doesn't want to play Championship football. His agent made that abundantly clear.

Tzolis is a far less exciting player to watch than Rowe, so your point re fans being bored doesn't make sense here.

That depends on what you find exciting. I found the inch-perfect pass to Sargent (Blackpool game?) exciting. I found the perfectly weighted pass to the inside left position in the Toulouse game exciting.

Don't get me wrong, I like Rowe very much and I think he is an exciting player, but in a completely different way. As you said earlier, probably in a way that much better suits what Wagner is trying to do.

[BroadstairsR 2,209]

All roads seem to lead to Smith, one way or the other.

The football was extra dire as well.

[KeiranShikari 1,468]

So no sale. Will be in exactly the same position with him when he gets back next summer.

[king canary 7,679]

15 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

So no sale. Will be in exactly the same position with him when he gets back next summer.

Looking forward to him being benched after 10 games, coming back in January and people still insisting he's brilliant secretly.

[Michael Starr 521]

What a shame. There was a potential top player in there somewhere.

[hogesar 9,760]

1 minute ago, king canary said:

Looking forward to him being benched after 10 games, coming back in January and people still insisting he's brilliant secretly.

I'm still in shock that I'm supposed to be Webber's biggest defender and I'm one of the only one's saying it was a clusterf*ck of a signing that cost a lot of money for a player that hasn't looked suited to English football!

The fact he's gone to a second tier German Side tells you all you need to know.

[Feedthewolf 4,894]

16 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

So no sale. Will be in exactly the same position with him when he gets back next summer.

Yeah, and a shame we couldn't do a permanent deal now to enable us to go into the transfer market to replace him.

I guess the best-case scenario is that Fortuna get promoted to the Bundesliga, he finds some form and we recoup what we paid for him.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,816]

What a sad, sad case of mismangement this has been.

[hogesar 9,760]

4 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Yeah, and a shame we couldn't do a permanent deal now to enable us to go into the transfer market to replace him.

I guess the best-case scenario is that Fortuna get promoted to the Bundesliga, he finds some form and we recoup what we paid for him.

Agree, but I don't see how on earth we could generate one. He's done absolutely nothing to warrant someone taking a ££ risk on him, unfortunately for us.,

[hogesar 9,760]

Just now, cambridgeshire canary said:

What a sad, sad case of mismangement this has been.

What mismanagement?

[Mike w 46]

6 minutes ago, Michael Starr said:

What a shame. There was a potential top player in there somewhere.

agree, what a waste of time

[Feedthewolf 4,894]

1 minute ago, hogesar said:

Agree, but I don't see how on earth we could generate one. He's done absolutely nothing to warrant someone taking a ££ risk on him, unfortunately for us.,

There's still talent in there, he's just had limited chance to show it... and when he has had chances, he's looked poor. Not discounting the possibility he may yet come good, but for now it makes sense to give him a chance of regular first-team football and see if he can find some form and match sharpness.

[norfolkngood 1,091]

That is very poor ,

But every manager has not played him and nobody knocking on the door to buy him ,

the managerment must see he is not worth keeping around the club ,

What a waste of money that was 

Edited August 3, 2023 by norfolkngood

[Walcombe canary 69]

A Bad one for Mr Webber Purchasing Record

[Fuzzar 1,703]

For every Buendia there'll always be a Tzolis - football is littered with 'you can't win 'em all' stories. 

Time to move on and hope some sort of fee is forthcoming at the end of the season. 

[Captain Holt 522]

Still got two years left on his contract after this one. If he smashes it out on loan he's got plenty of time to make another proper fist of it here. It's the right move for all involved.

[king canary 7,679]

6 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

There's still talent in there, he's just had limited chance to show it... and when he has had chances, he's looked poor. Not discounting the possibility he may yet come good, but for now it makes sense to give him a chance of regular first-team football and see if he can find some form and match sharpness.

If we think he has ability then this move is probably for the best. If we made a permanent sale now we'd probably be lucky to get a couple of million tops. Instead he goes on loan and if he plays well his price goes up, if he doesn't we're in the same place as we were before.

[jaberry2 556]

Sounds like the best situation given where we find ourselves at with him now. Hopefully he does have a good season and enhances his value. A costly mistake for the club this has proved to be.

[Pyro Pete 1,921]

Given a squad number yesterday.

A season-long loan move today.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,800]

Not sure if there will 'always' be a Tzolis...dont know how many clubs with our limited budget wouldve taken a £10m punt on an 18 yr old like we did?

The most rephrehensible piece of transfer business this club has ever conducted

[Google Bot 3,329]

30 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

I guess the best-case scenario is that Fortuna get promoted to the Bundesliga, he finds some form and we recoup what we paid for him.

Yeah it'd be awful if he came back and performed for us wouldn't it.  Definitely best-case scenario.

This could be very good for us both as he's sure to get game-time, German league is equally physical, and being second tier should show us what he's capable of.

Shouldn't be a pre-approved agreement to buy though, that could bite us in the **** big time.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Google Bot

[jaberry2 556]

11 minutes ago, Pyro Pete said:

Given a squad number yesterday.

A season-long loan move today.

Being given a squad number means nothing.

[Feedthewolf 4,894]

4 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Yeah it'd be awful if he came back and performed for us wouldn't it.  Definitely best-case scenario.

This could be very good for us both as he's sure to get game-time, German league is equally physical, and being second tier should show us what he's capable of.

Fair point regarding my use of 'best-case scenario'. Speaking literally, the best-case scenario would be that he scores a billion goals at Fortuna, comes back here and fires us to the Champions League title. But yes, it would be better if his form and value increased exponentially this year, and then he came back and realised that talent for us.

I guess what I meant to say was that, given the current situation, recouping what we paid for him would represent an excellent outcome given all the possible alternatives from this juncture.

[Grando 283]

Let's hope they're paying all of his wages. If not then we really are mugs.