If Farke became available would you want him back?

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,153]

8 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

2017/18 was Farke's first season it was the season where the fans booed Farkes football and what was called "endless tippy tappy going nowhere". At one point Webber defended Farke suggesting if the fans didn't like the football they should perhaps support another team. (A sign of things to come maybe) The season ended with anger in the stands and a mass of non renewals.

2018/19 our first championship winning season started with booing during the games and empty seats in the stands. It was absolutely aimed at Farke. I particularly remember the Preston win and the Leeds defeat within a few days. I remember Tettey passing back to the keeper with boos ringing round all four stands. Ipswich away followed that and there were loads of calls for Farke out. We then beat Boro 1-0 but it took a while before fans started to grudgingly accept him. It was probably the three wins in a week against Forest, Villa and Brentford when everyone brought in. 

Oh and at Christmas loads of the non renewers took out half-season tickets an all was well again.

 

Absolutely true and I remember those games and that period as well. I think it just goes to show that the type of football Norwich fans like most of all is winning football, just like fans of any other club. You can talk all you want about playing styles and philosophies but ultimately it's results on the pitch that matter. There wasn't much difference in how we played in Farke's first season and his next two Championship seasons but in those next two we had two players too good for the Championship who could create and score chances at will. If we played long ball or counter attacking football but won games fans would be happy and if we played a pure possession based passing game that was great to watch but if we didn't get results the fans would be angry. 

I suspect that with our current squad if we had Farke in charge things would be going much like they did in his first season and even though we would have a clear philosophy and a manager that fans can connect with most people wouldn't be happy as we wouldn't be winning enough games or scoring enough goals. 

People often over estimate how important the manager is and underestimate the role the players play. A bad manager will have an effect of course, but if you have a good team that has good chemistry even an average manager will get results. We all thought Lambert was the next big thing, but it's now clear that it was more about Ruddy/Martin/Hoolahan/Holt. Alex Neil the same but he had a great team of experienced players, and Farke again wouldn't have had much success without Buendia and Pukki. 

I honestly don't think Farke would make much of a difference right now and I think it's unfair to compare Wagner and Smith to be fair to a Farke team that had Buendia and an in his prime Pukki. We have a very average team right now with no 'weapons' and a lot of mental scars from previous relegations. It reminds me of when people were clamoring to have Lambert back in 2016 and in Farke's first season, what would he have done with that team and without the star players from his time here? Not a lot I'd imagine. 

[Indy 3,319]

7 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

2017/18 was Farke's first season it was the season where the fans booed Farkes football and what was called "endless tippy tappy going nowhere". At one point Webber defended Farke suggesting if the fans didn't like the football they should perhaps support another team. (A sign of things to come maybe) The season ended with anger in the stands and a mass of non renewals.

2018/19 our first championship winning season started with booing during the games and empty seats in the stands. It was absolutely aimed at Farke. I particularly remember the Preston win and the Leeds defeat within a few days. I remember Tettey passing back to the keeper with boos ringing round all four stands. Ipswich away followed that and there were loads of calls for Farke out. We then beat Boro 1-0 but it took a while before fans started to grudgingly accept him. It was probably the three wins in a week against Forest, Villa and Brentford when everyone brought in. 

Oh and at Christmas loads of the non renewers took out half-season tickets an all was well again.

 

Indeed but I still maintain as myself it was a massive part down to the feeling towards the ****e football served up the previous season, the mood was negative and people like myself started to lose faith with football at this club. I wasn't alone in not renewing my season ticket and that was pre Fark/Webber. So as you point out the boo of frustration might well have been aimed at the day on the football produced but it was far deeper rooted and I think you that.

[TheGunnShow 6,009]

We're in a very awkward transition period as the major difference between Farke teams and the best Smith/Wagner ones is the work off the ball. Farke teams lasted very well in the Champs as they were smarter with the ball (hence why we often scored so many late goals), and possession was their primary defence.

Smith/Wagner sides liked to press more. In Wagner's case with Huddersfield, far more. You need a full pre-season of pretty brutal fitness work and there's no way such a team can be moulded when the coach arrives mid-season.

I wouldn't want Farke back as head coach now even if I had said I didn't want to see him go when he did. I can see why the weaknesses in his style of play would prevent us from making the leap. But tell him to be a pragmatic maker of club architecture and help put everything in place for it to work? I think he'd do a superb job of it.

[The Real Buh 3,480]

Yes of course 

if he rides into the boardroom on a horse and tells them where to go

got to get to root cause to fix this 

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,243]

8 hours ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

Absolutely true and I remember those games and that period as well. I think it just goes to show that the type of football Norwich fans like most of all is winning football, just like fans of any other club. You can talk all you want about playing styles and philosophies but ultimately it's results on the pitch that matter. There wasn't much difference in how we played in Farke's first season and his next two Championship seasons but in those next two we had two players too good for the Championship who could create and score chances at will. If we played long ball or counter attacking football but won games fans would be happy and if we played a pure possession based passing game that was great to watch but if we didn't get results the fans would be angry. 

I suspect that with our current squad if we had Farke in charge things would be going much like they did in his first season and even though we would have a clear philosophy and a manager that fans can connect with most people wouldn't be happy as we wouldn't be winning enough games or scoring enough goals. 

People often over estimate how important the manager is and underestimate the role the players play. A bad manager will have an effect of course, but if you have a good team that has good chemistry even an average manager will get results. We all thought Lambert was the next big thing, but it's now clear that it was more about Ruddy/Martin/Hoolahan/Holt. Alex Neil the same but he had a great team of experienced players, and Farke again wouldn't have had much success without Buendia and Pukki. 

I honestly don't think Farke would make much of a difference right now and I think it's unfair to compare Wagner and Smith to be fair to a Farke team that had Buendia and an in his prime Pukki. We have a very average team right now with no 'weapons' and a lot of mental scars from previous relegations. It reminds me of when people were clamoring to have Lambert back in 2016 and in Farke's first season, what would he have done with that team and without the star players from his time here? Not a lot I'd imagine. 

So much about this post is excellent. 

Where I think you could add nuance or intangibles is that - very occasionally - someone’s style-approach-philosophy-character-feeling is just right for an area, culture or mindset. 

I genuinely think that that was Farke and us. Players - their families, their agents, their mates, their ex and future team mates - also feel and talk about this around the water cooler. Clubs go in and out of fashion like this. 

Guardiola ‘watching us in his spare time’ really, really matters. To fans, to feelings, to recruitment. 

Parma 

[spencer 1970 207]

Possibly my favourite manager since the often underated Stringer, but it's not going to happen is it? 

Let's give WagWeb a bit of time with a pre-season. We're often better when we're up against it.  

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,428]

11 hours ago, Commonsense said:

Of course I’d have him back. One of our best managers ever. I couldn’t believe it when he was sacked after the Brentford win. Unique, special and he loved Norwich. Whether he would ever return Is a seperate question!

He was sacked before the Brentford match. He was told after the Brentford match.

There's a difference 😉

[Big O 225]

11 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

2017/18 was Farke's first season it was the season where the fans booed Farkes football and what was called "endless tippy tappy going nowhere". At one point Webber defended Farke suggesting if the fans didn't like the football they should perhaps support another team. (A sign of things to come maybe) The season ended with anger in the stands and a mass of non renewals.

2018/19 our first championship winning season started with booing during the games and empty seats in the stands. It was absolutely aimed at Farke. I particularly remember the Preston win and the Leeds defeat within a few days. I remember Tettey passing back to the keeper with boos ringing round all four stands. Ipswich away followed that and there were loads of calls for Farke out. We then beat Boro 1-0 but it took a while before fans started to grudgingly accept him. It was probably the three wins in a week against Forest, Villa and Brentford when everyone brought in. 

Oh and at Christmas loads of the non renewers took out half-season tickets an all was well again.

 

That pretty much sums it up. We have to be more realistic as a fan base. By all means if significant cash injection is added then maybe we could compete 

[Indy 3,319]

11 hours ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

Absolutely true and I remember those games and that period as well. I think it just goes to show that the type of football Norwich fans like most of all is winning football, just like fans of any other club. You can talk all you want about playing styles and philosophies but ultimately it's results on the pitch that matter. There wasn't much difference in how we played in Farke's first season and his next two Championship seasons but in those next two we had two players too good for the Championship who could create and score chances at will. If we played long ball or counter attacking football but won games fans would be happy and if we played a pure possession based passing game that was great to watch but if we didn't get results the fans would be angry. 

I suspect that with our current squad if we had Farke in charge things would be going much like they did in his first season and even though we would have a clear philosophy and a manager that fans can connect with most people wouldn't be happy as we wouldn't be winning enough games or scoring enough goals. 

People often over estimate how important the manager is and underestimate the role the players play. A bad manager will have an effect of course, but if you have a good team that has good chemistry even an average manager will get results. We all thought Lambert was the next big thing, but it's now clear that it was more about Ruddy/Martin/Hoolahan/Holt. Alex Neil the same but he had a great team of experienced players, and Farke again wouldn't have had much success without Buendia and Pukki. 

I honestly don't think Farke would make much of a difference right now and I think it's unfair to compare Wagner and Smith to be fair to a Farke team that had Buendia and an in his prime Pukki. We have a very average team right now with no 'weapons' and a lot of mental scars from previous relegations. It reminds me of when people were clamoring to have Lambert back in 2016 and in Farke's first season, what would he have done with that team and without the star players from his time here? Not a lot I'd imagine. 

I agree but will add that Farke took some very ordinary players your login being one and got them playing far better football, Zimmermann, Trybul, Steip, Hernandez, Cantwell flurished and it should be noted that Pukki wasn't the player anywhere else but under Farke he had his golden period, that can be said of Beundia too. 

So to that extent when you say an average manager will get results from a good team, a good manager will get a team to play his style & philosophy while getting more out players than they gave elsewhere. Farke & his coaches help make Pukki & Beundia into the players the were.

[Bradwell canary 109]

15 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

I’d imagine he’s still hurting from the manner of the sacking. I doubt he’d want to work under theses owners or the Webbers again. 

So Would you ever consider going back to play under Webber, who sacked you rather than shoulder the blame.

No I thought not

[Midlands Yellow 4,081]

1 minute ago, Bradwell canary said:

So Would you ever consider going back to play under Webber, who sacked you rather than shoulder the blame.

No I thought not

Certainly not, Webber is a fraud.

[Bradwell canary 109]

13 hours ago, CDMullins said:

Jesus wept,

It might be the Norovirus but this is the second time I've agreed with you today.

The Leeds game swayed me to 'Farke Out' after he abandoned his principles.

But to sack him after a win and without a replacement/plan or Strategy was suicidal.

An error Webber replicated by leaving it until after the WC to sack Smith.

 If as the Boss you continue to sack the people you yourself have appointed…….time to look in the mirror!

Even if the mirror is held for him by Zoe.

 

He is so far up D&M rear part, he is here until a completely new owner is in place.

 

 

[Mello Yello 2,303]

If Daniel returns they'll have to update and put a few licks of fresh paint on his mural that's on the wall of the Fatty Catty an' Canary on Thorpe Road....Just sayin'.....

[hogesar 9,749]

13 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

2017/18 was Farke's first season it was the season where the fans booed Farkes football and what was called "endless tippy tappy going nowhere". At one point Webber defended Farke suggesting if the fans didn't like the football they should perhaps support another team. (A sign of things to come maybe) The season ended with anger in the stands and a mass of non renewals.

2018/19 our first championship winning season started with booing during the games and empty seats in the stands. It was absolutely aimed at Farke. I particularly remember the Preston win and the Leeds defeat within a few days. I remember Tettey passing back to the keeper with boos ringing round all four stands. Ipswich away followed that and there were loads of calls for Farke out. We then beat Boro 1-0 but it took a while before fans started to grudgingly accept him. It was probably the three wins in a week against Forest, Villa and Brentford when everyone brought in. 

Oh and at Christmas loads of the non renewers took out half-season tickets an all was well again.

 

This is of course all 100% fact and true. Also before the Brentford game was the online polls where 65% wanted Farke out.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

16 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Well the booing was at HT, FT and during games in 2018. Let alone what was posted online.

Could have been the players getting booed.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I don't believe its good for a coach to come back. But I would like to see him as SD.

[sonyc 5,541]

5 hours ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

So much about this post is excellent. 

Where I think you could add nuance or intangibles is that - very occasionally - someone’s style-approach-philosophy-character-feeling is just right for an area, culture or mindset. 

I genuinely think that that was Farke and us. Players - their families, their agents, their mates, their ex and future team mates - also feel and talk about this around the water cooler. Clubs go in and out of fashion like this. 

Guardiola ‘watching us in his spare time’ really, really matters. To fans, to feelings, to recruitment. 

Parma 

Yes, this Parma 👍. I understood why we made the change when Farke was dismissed, even though, for me, he could have remained with us for years. If ever someone really 'got' us (in recent times) it was him. Arteta was given time (and lots of 'weapons' and resources admittedly) and we could have gone for something unusual and really had a long term solution. Would the fans have turned against him? Possibly. Not something he had to endure in the end. I often wondered too how he managed to balance his Norfolk and German family life too. In that respect I used to think he would go back to Germany (though in fact it was Russia briefly). 

His final words were cryptic as well I believe - something about "when we meet again". It would be great to see him back in some capacity (and maybe too Zimmermann - a lifelong convert to NCFC).

Guardiola won't be watching us now will he 🤣as a way of relaxing.

I just hope Wagner is given a good while to develop something, to build something again. I hope too fans have patience.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I can't be bothered to do the research as I have been painting the back of the house all day and am resting watching the CocknEyes playing each other.

But I wonder what history will say about clubs who sack their coach after he was successful. Us and Leicester with Ranieri spring to mind. Are they now more successful?

[Indy 3,319]

28 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Could have been the players getting booed.

Or the board as I remember when calling it day along with a few others after 20 years. There are certain posters who will post in their view with their agenda, but pre Webber & Farke and the atmosphere wasn't that pleasent given the state of the club then. So indeed the reaction was aimed at more than that game in my opinion, at that time, I was at a good few games in the first Farke season and the talk was a new era will take time as it did. Funny how we remember it and funny enough I was there for the Preston game. Still then to now we come full circle.......what Webber was so critical of the previous regime can now be aimed at Webber.

I have confidence that Wagner is definately the right man under Webber for this club (though my choice was always Robins) and we have a challenging summer. It'll be interesting if there's no pogress on the attanasio takeover and a firesale to balance the budgets will the boos start up again like 2018 and who will they be aimed at?

Edited April 16, 2023 by Indy

[nutty nigel 7,633]

2 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Could have been the players getting booed.

That's where the perspective comes in again. Was it Tetty being booed? Or the football Farke had him playing? Ask someone else who was there if you don't believe my account.

 

[norfolkngood 1,088]

19 hours ago, lake district canary said:

That should have been the question Webber asked before he sacked Farke.

Webber should have had the next one already lined up ! 

same style and less disturbance to the club playing style thats what he told us how it would work ,

i would have Farke back as DOF he would bring the fans and club together over night 

he would meet the fans if results were not good and talk it through and explain not insult them like webber 

 

[nutty nigel 7,633]

Again to avoid rewriting of history...

 

[lake district canary 4,545]

Well the sacking of Farke nearly put me off the club all together and I know I'm not the only one, but I don't think him coming back will be particularly helpful. The damage has been done and I can't imagine the scenario where he could recapture the spirit he was able to bring to the club the first time round.

I might be wrong, because he is a very intelligent and cool character who may still love us enough to give it another go, but that is assuming the powers that be would want him back.  The whole episode was a shambles - a club living in a league with players not up to the job and the manager doing everything he could to turn it round - and had started picking up points - only for Webber to pull the plug on an era that on the whole had been hugely successful (unless you are someone who thinks the PL is all that matters). 

The memories won't fade, the two promotions, the togetherness of the squad with some fabulous characters in it, the win over Man City, Buendia, Pukki, Vrancic, Krul, Zimmermann, etc, some marvellous cup games, football that at times was breathtakingly good. Plenty wanted him gone the first season and the start of the second - they were wrong. Plenty seemed to want him gone in that second PL season.....well we'll never know whether they were right or wrong, but the evidence is totally clear - Smith and Wagner have struggled to get anything better going. 

Wagner has next season to prove he can do it, but his high pressing all action game is not easy to do week in week out. Farke demanded great fitness too, but his football was always composed and contained, which at least at championship level proved exceptional.  Imo given more time, he would have proved it again and again. Few managers manage to create a dynasty, but he could have, with the ups and downs part of a roller coaster that this club is used to. As @Parma Ham's gone mouldy said, he was a good fit.

Edited April 16, 2023 by lake district canary

[Feedthewolf 4,890]

On 15/04/2023 at 21:25, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

Yes. As either Head Coach or Director of Football. 

Normally ‘you don’t go back’. Exceptions must sometimes be made. 

Farke fitted perfectly here. Under current parameters we can’t do better. 

Parma 

This. Absolutely this.

[sgncfc 1,259]

Yes, I'd have him back in a heartbeat. But he wouldn't make a huge difference to the current squad. As others have said, it's all about the players, and at the moment we don't have enough good ones.

[king canary 7,678]

On 15/04/2023 at 20:57, Indy said:

They drew today and though a reasonable season not spectacular.....so if he did depart would you? 😉

Not sure about that.

Their last manager was sacked for finishing 10th, which is where they currently sit. Before that they'd finished top half every season in the last 10.

If they finish the season poorly I wouldn't be massively shocked if they moved on.

[hogesar 9,749]

11 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Again to avoid rewriting of history...

 

Big fan of that thread 😉

 

[nutty nigel 7,633]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

Big fan of that thread 😉

 

You can put Farke out into search and find numerous threads. But this one was started by and had contributions from good posters who were going to the games at the time. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

19 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

That's where the perspective comes in again. Was it Tetty being booed? Or the football Farke had him playing? Ask someone else who was there if you don't believe my account.

 

You would have to ask everyone who booed who it was aimed at. I always believe that booing is just fans unhappy with what they are watching. Nobody in particular just a colloquial unhappiness symbol. And I think its a fair display to use at the end of a match. How else do you show your unhappiness? 

Players or coaches on the other hand tend to get abuse. I always remember seeing us getting beat at Argyle and shouting out "Nigel, it ain't working. Get it sorted". It was aimed at Worthington as we were close to the end of his reign. I think the infamous Burnley home game was the next match.

I don't boo at matches as its a bit Boys Own comic. "I say, you rotter". I probably just moan to myself. 

Edited April 17, 2023 by keelansgrandad

[duke63 545]

Farke was way out of his depth in the EPL.

To bring him back is a nonsense idea.

We would be better off re-signing Emi. 

 

Edited April 17, 2023 by duke63