So you're in extra time with the match almost over..

[cambridgeshire canary 6,781]

So, you're the goalkeeper for Norwich. You're playing the team bottom of the table who had so far not even had a single shot on target against you all match. The 90th minute has passed and you only have seconds left. Its 1-1. Do you

 

A- Kick the ball long to give your team one last chance at scoring

B- Kick the ball short and let your defenders pass it around at the back

 

Just why the hell did we go for B?

[Peregrine Shorts 330]

At that point we had Pukki, Tzolis and Gibbs up front

[Capt. Pants 4,274]

If you have possession refs usually let you finish the phase before blowing for time. Launch it and fail to win the header then it's game over.

We had no one to win the header.

[yellowrider120 778]

40 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

So, you're the goalkeeper for Norwich. You're playing the team bottom of the table who had so far not even had a single shot on target against you all match. The 90th minute has passed and you only have seconds left. Its 1-1. Do you

 

A- Kick the ball long to give your team one last chance at scoring

B- Kick the ball short and let your defenders pass it around at the back

 

Just why the hell did we go for B?

Like I keep saying. Playing out from the back has reached the level of obsession! Its' the .....'modern way' apparently and anything else is .............'old school, embarrassing'.  , 

 

[yellowrider120 778]

5 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

If you have possession refs usually let you finish the phase before blowing for time. Launch it and fail to win the header then it's game over.

We had no one to win the header.

Ever heard of the definition of madness by any chance?

[Ken Hairy 3,779]

To be fair Gunn wanted to go long,  our illustrious captain overruled him.

[It's Character Forming 1,164]

Maybe re-watch the goals from the 4-3 win over Millwall ?

 

As has been pointed out, if you've no-one up front who's a favourite to win the header, it makes more sense to play it short even if you're in stoppage time.

[Robert N. LiM 4,465]

5 minutes ago, It's Character Forming said:

Maybe re-watch the goals from the 4-3 win over Millwall ?

Absolutely. On the same principle, one of my all-time favourite City goals was Grant Holt's last-minute winner against Reading in Lambert's Championship promotion season. (It's the one that starts with McNally throwing the ball to Lambert.) There's a great moment where David Fox has the opportunity to sling it in the box, but turns away from goal. You can hear the groans and sighs from the Barclay (probably the same people on this thread...). But he finds a better angle, slips it to Surman, who works some magic in the box and Holt turns in the cross.

Playing out from the back, keeping possession is almost always the right approach. Our problem is just that we're not good enough at it.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,445]

12 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Absolutely. On the same principle, one of my all-time favourite City goals was Grant Holt's last-minute winner against Reading in Lambert's Championship promotion season. (It's the one that starts with McNally throwing the ball to Lambert.) There's a great moment where David Fox has the opportunity to sling it in the box, but turns away from goal. You can hear the groans and sighs from the Barclay (probably the same people on this thread...). But he finds a better angle, slips it to Surman, who works some magic in the box and Holt turns in the cross.

Playing out from the back, keeping possession is almost always the right approach. Our problem is just that we're not good enough at it.

This is so true. It also doesn’t help when the bloke behind me in the Upper Barclay keeps shouting “getitforwardfor****sake” which in another universe means just give the ball to the opposition . 
 

That said it is torture . And we should be looking for balls in behind the back four to turn the oppo defences on occasions . We have pace to get in behind .  

[yellowrider120 778]

3 hours ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

This is so true. It also doesn’t help when the bloke behind me in the Upper Barclay keeps shouting “getitforwardfor****sake” which in another universe means just give the ball to the opposition . 
 

That said it is torture . And we should be looking for balls in behind the back four to turn the oppo defences on occasions . We have pace to get in behind .  

But it doesn't necessarily end up with losing possession though does it? The key is for the midfield to be aware of a long ball and get on their bikes for the second ball. When that happens, the more direct approach can be a very good attacking weapon. In any event I would much rather lose possession well into the opposition box than inside our own! Surely that makes total sense. If we had the quality of players Burnley have then fine. We don't. End of.

[Matt Juler 155]

If we played progressive forward football from the back it would not be an issue, but more often than not it goes Gunn - Hanley - Gibson - Hanley - McLean - Hanley (panic, panic, panic) - Gunn who being closed down is forced into a rushed punt upfield.

[Greavsy 2,421]

So you're in extra time with the match almost over..

By cambridgeshire canary, 5 hours ago in Main Discussion - Norwich City

 

Extra time? is it a cup match? Its injury or stoppage time. 

[nutty nigel 7,596]

How did we get those late late winners under Farke when the crowd were baying this ol' squit?

[dylanisabaddog 4,970]

5 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

If you have possession refs usually let you finish the phase before blowing for time. Launch it and fail to win the header then it's game over.

We had no one to win the header.

You're right. When did we ever score a last minute winner by launching the ball forward? 

On the other hand, we got a last minute home winner against Millwall by playing out from the back

[Branston Pickle 3,679]

24 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

You're right. When did we ever score a last minute winner by launching the ball forward? 

On the other hand, we got a last minute home winner against Millwall by playing out from the back

I’m what decade, though?!

Imo it’s all about playing the situation- I was rather surprised by the play that Cambridge is talking about, particularly as the ball was then played back to Gunn (not particularly well). If he had no options it’s not his fault, more the  rigidity of the system that we seem Incapable of adapting to the circumstances.

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

9 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

I’m what decade, though?!

Imo it’s all about playing the situation- I was rather surprised by the play that Cambridge is talking about, particularly as the ball was then played back to Gunn (not particularly well). If he had no options it’s not his fault, more the  rigidity of the system that we seem Incapable of adapting to the circumstances.

 

I mentioned that last night. We were in the added time in added time. Hanley still ended up launching it after a pass from AO. So it wasn't played out from the back but a big boot but Gunn could have done it better. 

[rock bus 854]

48 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

On the other hand, we got a last minute home winner against Millwall by playing out from the back

This is kind of the point and one of our major problems.... we dont seem capable of playing it OUT from the back, what we do is just play it AROUND the back. 

[nutty nigel 7,596]

All I've noticed over the years is that probably the majority of our fans absolutely hate what they call fannying around at the back but tolerate it and bite their tongues if we're winning. I think that's probably all English clubs fans to be fair. Up and at 'em is what us folk really want.

The real obsession with this was with Daniel Farke. He wouldn't tolerate the occasional mixing it up that we see now. But his real talent was getting his teams to ignore the noise and discontent and carry on with the plan. This saw booing from the stands and good numbers of st holders not renewing but eventually paid dividends. Whatever Daniel instilled into the players is long lost and that single minded obsession and togetherness with playing out from the back has weakened. Despite claims to the contrary on this thread.

 

Edited March 16, 2023 by nutty nigel

[hogesar 9,722]

21 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

All I've noticed over the years is that probably the majority of our fans absolutely hate what they call fannying around at the back but tolerate it and bite their tongues if we're winning. I think that's probably all English clubs fans to be fair. Up and at 'em is what us folk really want.

The real obsession with this was with Daniel Farke. He wouldn't tolerate the occasional mixing it up that we see now. But his real talent was getting his teams to ignore the noise and discontent and carry on with the plan. This saw booing from the stands and good numbers of st holders not renewing but eventually paid dividends. Whatever Daniel instilled into the players is long lost and that single minded obsession and togetherness with playing out from the back has weakened. Despite claims to the contrary on this thread.

 

Yes, our fans don't cope well with passing out from the back. I'm not sure if it's just our fans, but ours certainly seem to create a nervousness. I repeat that we regularly pass out better when attacking the Barclay than the other way round. When the Barclay can see us passing it around they get agitated and scream to launch it. Then scream again when we've lost it.

Which, is more noise than they'd make otherwise 🙂

I say all this as a Lower Barclay Season Ticket Holder 🙂

 

[Worthy Nigelton 1,062]

None of the best teams, or teams that get the most last minute goals do it by hoofing it up there.  It can sometimes be counter-intuitive but it's always better to keep playing the right way as demonstrated by Farke's teams

[AJ 1,224]

We have absolutely no height or physical presence up top with Sarge missing, absolutely no point punting it to there, it would only come straight back

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,445]

4 hours ago, yellowrider120 said:

But it doesn't necessarily end up with losing possession though does it? The key is for the midfield to be aware of a long ball and get on their bikes for the second ball. When that happens, the more direct approach can be a very good attacking weapon. In any event I would much rather lose possession well into the opposition box than inside our own! Surely that makes total sense. If we had the quality of players Burnley have then fine. We don't. End of.

Agree YR120 but I think our whole club is based on a system and our players come in to play that way. A team with Pukki in the side isn’t going to play long passes as it gives away possession and we haven’t had a GK like Pickford that can turn a defence and play into space behind the opposition 

. We don’t have a 10 that plays off a front player and the percentages of “second ball” are low. 

We try and play through the lines. But as has been said our back two and Angus are susceptible to the high press . Oddly , Huddersfield didn’t press that high but we still ended up passing wider into neutral areas rather than through the lines via Sara and Kenny. Or we give the ball away trying to pass through the lines. 

Farke didn’t mix it up . When he tried (2nd time in the Prem) it was an unmitigated disaster. In the chumps we were brilliant at it and played the system with confidence. 
 

Right now I would favour mixing it up, but I fear the players aren’t there to do it . 
 

[vos 155]

I actually think this style of play invariably gets us nowhere particularly against sides who are not that great and tend to sit back. The problem is that after all the "fannying around" the eventual  positive forward pass still falls to a defender which is not their greatest asset. Additionally the opposition have had ample time to tighten up the midfield and it is blindingly obvious we cannot find anyone in space. Aarons is the classic example of this in that he continually turns back as the only player in some space is his fellow defender. How many times does the ball eventually get returned to our keeper. 

So what is Glen Roeder's protege's answer. Move the ball much quicker out of defence to an attacking ball player (schemer) i.e. Hoolahan who will be in more space and then move on from there. Take it from me, football really is a simple game. In making these observations I do accept that our current tactics partly evolved from Farke who rightly took the view it was a waste of time to thump long high balls up the middle to Pukki.

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,142]

Playing out from the back is fine and preferable to just lumping it long, it's the way we do it that's the problem. Have the players move to progress the ball up the pitch, pass it quickly to move the opposition out of shape and have a few players who can hold onto the ball and beat a man if we get pressed. Hanley and Gibson/Omobamidele knocking the ball leisurely side to side, then playing a slow ball to Aarons or Giannoulis who are now being pressed is just a longer, more drawn out way of losing the ball from a GK much like a long goal kick only now the opposition have the ball in the final third. Someone on this thread mentioned the Milwall game, yes we played out from the back but it was twice as quick as what we do now and there was some invention and purpose to it. 

Edited March 16, 2023 by Christoph Stiepermann

[......and Smith must score. 1,355]

20 hours ago, Greavsy said:

So you're in extra time with the match almost over..

By cambridgeshire canary, 5 hours ago in Main Discussion - Norwich City

 

Extra time? is it a cup match? Its injury or stoppage time. 

Poor old CC. Try to remember those golden words : Think Before You Post

It's like shooting fish in a barrel.....

[Flying Dutchman 744]

2 hours ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

Poor old CC. Try to remember those golden words : Think Before You Post

It's like shooting fish in a barrel.....

CC making himself absolutely undroppable as the class clown once again.

I honestly do not know why anyone reads his Tabloid headline style posts anymore.

[Greavsy 2,421]

4 hours ago, Flying Dutchman said:

.I honestly do not know why anyone reads his Tabloid headline style posts anymore.

Hard to avoid!