Mark Attanasio

[GMF 757]

41 minutes ago, essex canary said:

There is a good tip albeit that it isn't one log-in.

In English, please. I don’t know what you mean.

[norfolkngood 1,095]

13 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

Yes. It's roughly 10% interest rate on the amount MA is thought to have loaned us. 

I'm struggling to get my head round all this as in some ways MA is taking interest from money he has loaned to himself.

another way of self funding paying himself for buying the club good idea ! 

Lend club money

get 6 million back in interest

but club still owes him the money he lent them 

Edited November 4, 2023 by norfolkngood

[CANARYKING 644]

58 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

another way of self funding paying himself for buying the club good idea ! 

Lend club money

get 6 million back in interest

but club still owes him the money he lent them 

Isn’t that exactly what the Glazers are doing with Manure

[GMF 757]

9 hours ago, CANARYKING said:

Isn’t that exactly what the Glazers are doing with Manure

Not exactly the same, as the Glazers used expensive debt finance to acquire the club, eventually refinancing it at market rates, but have continually drawn dividends from profits made by the club.

In the meantime there’s been next to no investment in their ground, which now looks dated in comparison to other big clubs, and, despite investment similar amounts in players to their rivals, City, they have a much poorer squad.

Obviously, there’s some caveats to this, as we’re assuming that MA has used his own money, and the levels of interest due, are modest in comparison to the MUFC dividends drawn down.

NCFC’s position currently seems more favourable, ignoring divisional status, of course.

[essex canary 515]

10 hours ago, GMF said:

In English, please. I don’t know what you mean.

I have checked out the procedure. So under the one log-in system I can go to the shareholders section and change my address. 

The problem is my address is the same for Ticketing purposes as it is for shareholding purposes so what is the point of the separation?

It would have been a good idea to make this clearer ahead of 2 important votes.

[GMF 757]

59 minutes ago, essex canary said:

I have checked out the procedure. So under the one log-in system I can go to the shareholders section and change my address. 

The problem is my address is the same for Ticketing purposes as it is for shareholding purposes so what is the point of the separation?

It would have been a good idea to make this clearer ahead of 2 important votes.

It’s quite simple, the share register has been a legal obligation from 1919, and its maintenance is primarily done externally.

In comparison, the ticketing and retail systems are more modern, contain far more than the 6,500 shareholder entries, and serve completely different purposes.

That’s not to say that notifications to the shareholders department can’t be shared internally, as you’ve implied.

[yellowrider120 797]

If I was MA observing this absolute carnage from afar, I would immediately be investigating the following options:-

1. Has he actually PAID for the additional shares yet?

2. Could he withdraw from the agreement to buy said shares and what penalties (if any) might he incur?  

3. Could he terminate the loan agreement and demand repayment of the principal sum?

I would want to either completely sever all financial ties with NCFC (hence needing answers to the questions above) OR take whatever steps necessary to assume full control immediately i.e. scrapping the ludicrous 'three year getting to know you period' (well its actually now down to two years and a couple of months).'   

 

[shefcanary 2,503]

11 hours ago, GMF said:

assuming that MA has used his own money,

This is why I think it is exactly like the Glazers at ManUre. The convoluted organisation structure that supports Norfolk Ltd involves quite a few other investors. I suspect Norfolk has raised funds from these investors rather than directly from Attanasio, to lend to the club at a relatively attractive rate to those investors. Sure, initially those other investors may well be interested in capital growth rather than revenue returns, but if things look like going south they will seek to gain as much return as quickly as possible.  I could be wrong of course, but further work is needed to identify how the companies that own Norfolk have raised their funding.

[benchwarmer 625]

Attanasio will bide his time until the club is on the verge of bankruptcy, then get it for peanuts.

If we're relegated this season he might not have long to wait.

Edited November 5, 2023 by benchwarmer

[Sooty57 406]

6 minutes ago, benchwarmer said:

Attanasio will bide his time until the club is on the verge of bankruptcy, then get it for peanuts.

Just shrewd business. Why jump in when the price is dropping?

[komakino 275]

Just now, benchwarmer said:

Attanasio will bide his time until the club is on the verge of bankruptcy, then get it for a song.

If we get relegated this season he might not have long to wait.

This did cross my mind before the start of the season.

I'm sure all eventualities were considered before he got involved, though didn't Delia recently say on a podcast that after the 'getting to know you period' she could back out of the deal with MA? How this would work in practise I cannot see, as where would the money to come from to buy him out? 

 

[benchwarmer 625]

1 minute ago, Sooty57 said:

Just shrewd business. Why jump in when the price is dropping?

I agree.

[benchwarmer 625]

1 minute ago, komakino said:

This did cross my mind before the start of the season.

I'm sure all eventualities were considered before he got involved, though didn't Delia recently say on a podcast that after the 'getting to know you period' she could back out of the deal with MA? How this would work in practise I cannot see, as where would the money to come from to buy him out? 

 

Unless Delia chose bankruptcy instead (and nothing is unthinkable), MA would hold all the cards.

[Capt. Pants 4,325]

11 minutes ago, benchwarmer said:

Attanasio will bide his time until the club is on the verge of bankruptcy, then get it for peanuts.

If we're relegated this season he might not have long to wait.

Then he'll sell it to a Saudi for a tidy profit.

[Olano 101]

9 minutes ago, komakino said:

This did cross my mind before the start of the season.

I'm sure all eventualities were considered before he got involved, though didn't Delia recently say on a podcast that after the 'getting to know you period' she could back out of the deal with MA? How this would work in practise I cannot see, as where would the money to come from to buy him out? 

 

If Delia dont trust MA, she can probably geth a new investor to buy him out?

[Capt. Pants 4,325]

1 minute ago, Olano said:

If Delia dont trust MA, she can probably geth a new investor to buy him out?

Doesn't need to - just sell her 40% to someone and the 30% rule would kick in. MA might not sell but the 20% would likely back her.

[vos 155]

27 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

This is why I think it is exactly like the Glazers at ManUre. The convoluted organisation structure that supports Norfolk Ltd involves quite a few other investors. I suspect Norfolk has raised funds from these investors rather than directly from Attanasio, to lend to the club at a relatively attractive rate to those investors. Sure, initially those other investors may well be interested in capital growth rather than revenue returns, but if things look like going south they will seek to gain as much return as quickly as possible.  I could be wrong of course, but further work is needed to identify how the companies that own Norfolk have raised their funding.

I doubt its his company's money. As Sheff states its probably investors money or pension funds which hold very substantial assets and a small proportion of their investment monies are in high return high risk loans. They would barely miss a loss of a few millions in football clubs. Norwich Union once did a similar arrangement with Ipswich TFC and wrote off about 20 million when Evans became involved. Ipswich are still flourishing, Aviva are doing OK but several investors like me lost about 20%. Needless to say it thrilled me to bits.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

He came in for more shares on the carnage of the end of last season and smelled another debt to buy up.

[Monty13 2,267]

5 hours ago, yellowrider120 said:

If I was MA observing this absolute carnage from afar, I would immediately be investigating the following options:-

1. Has he actually PAID for the additional shares yet?

2. Could he withdraw from the agreement to buy said shares and what penalties (if any) might he incur?  

3. Could he terminate the loan agreement and demand repayment of the principal sum?

I would want to either completely sever all financial ties with NCFC (hence needing answers to the questions above) OR take whatever steps necessary to assume full control immediately i.e. scrapping the ludicrous 'three year getting to know you period' (well its actually now down to two years and a couple of months).'   

 

Really? I imagine he’s quietly smiling to himself.

He’s going to be a (perceived) silent minority partner in an organisation that’s imploding and owes him millions.

No one’s blaming him and when he inevitably power plays to take control he’ll almost certainly be welcomed with open arms by the supporter base.

He’s not a white knight, never was, he’s a wolf and D&M let him in the door. They can have no complaints.

I still think his intentions to the club are generally to make a Brewers of us, at least I hold that optimistic hope.

I feel the handling of Attanasio generally looks as naive as the rest of the club oversight at board level, he holds all the cards now no matter what D&M say.

[GMF 757]

12 hours ago, shefcanary said:

This is why I think it is exactly like the Glazers at ManUre. The convoluted organisation structure that supports Norfolk Ltd involves quite a few other investors. I suspect Norfolk has raised funds from these investors rather than directly from Attanasio, to lend to the club at a relatively attractive rate to those investors. Sure, initially those other investors may well be interested in capital growth rather than revenue returns, but if things look like going south they will seek to gain as much return as quickly as possible.  I could be wrong of course, but further work is needed to identify how the companies that own Norfolk have raised their funding.

The State of Delaware website charges $25 a pop for detailed company searches and there’s no indication of how informative this would be.

[Indy 3,338]

I think we need to consider exactly who set this timeline up and the statement if correct that Delia & MWJ have the right to say no to MA. If this is the doing of the former majority holders then I fully appreciate MA taking the interest payments.

Its all supposition and the reality is as I’ve been saying since Smith Webber should have gone, the club should have been sold with a full clean break in ownership and we should have had leaderships from the top! Instead as pointed out we’re in apathetic limbo waiting for something to change. Knapper must be a little concerned to what he’s coming into!

[essex canary 515]

On 05/11/2023 at 09:57, GMF said:

It’s quite simple, the share register has been a legal obligation from 1919, and its maintenance is primarily done externally.

In comparison, the ticketing and retail systems are more modern, contain far more than the 6,500 shareholder entries, and serve completely different purposes.

That’s not to say that notifications to the shareholders department can’t be shared internally, as you’ve implied.

The question is did they maximise the efforts to identify the supporter shareholders they should have sent papers to prior to 2 crucial votes. I am suspecting the answer is 'No.' Still no figures re the vote outcome.

Interesting to listen to Chris Goreham and Rob Butler yesterday drawing attention to the whitewashing nature of the ED's Programme Notes.

Then we have the quote 'our forthcoming Annual General Meeting will act as a timely reflection in relation to the direction we all want our Club to head in.' The younger supporters who matter most won't be there and many of us old guard don't share her vision so exactly how is that going to work?

Those who do have fan representation opportunities need to make the most of it.

Edited November 6, 2023 by essex canary

[Wibble 110]

I hope he has kept his receipt

[Google Bot 3,379]

I just read that MA has upset Brewers fans:

Looks like he's allowed their manager to leave to join their much disliked rivals.

Not some great comments on there for anyone thinking he's going to be putting money our way to build a better squad, or things will change in any kind of radical way.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Google Bot

[Feedthewolf 4,942]

6 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

I just read that MA has upset Brewers fans:

Looks like he's allowed their manager to leave to join their much disliked rivals.

Not some great comments on there.

Milwaukee offered Craig Counsell a new contract which would have made him the highest-paid manager in the whole of the MLB.

I don't think anyone expected the Cubs to offer him about 50% more than that, and make him the highest-paid manager in the history of baseball.

We really shouldn't try to draw any parallels between this and 'little old Norwich'. (Not that I'm suggesting you are; I follow baseball and just wanted to give a bit of context.)

Edited November 6, 2023 by Feedthewolf

[Google Bot 3,379]

1 minute ago, Feedthewolf said:

We really shouldn't try to draw any parallels between this and 'little old Norwich'. (Not that I'm suggesting you are; I follow baseball and just wanted to give a bit of context.)

What resonated more are the comments where he's failed to support the coach with the roster required, which we're very familiar with already.

[Big Vince 325]

3 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

What resonated more are the comments where he's failed to support the coach with the roster required, which we're very familiar with already.

Well there you go! We are going to lurch from current owners no good to future owner no good. Delia has played a blinder hand picking a successor with all the same attributes.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,612]

36 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

What resonated more are the comments where he's failed to support the coach with the roster required, which we're very familiar with already.

That's not in the club's control by a longshot. The club will try and get the best players out can, but we compete with other clubs for the same players. Ultimately, managers of clubs of our level need to be able to adapt to the limits of their players. Usually, the narrative is that the manager is supposed to command the players like puppets on a string during the game. That was the standard Smith seemed to be judged against. Wagner seems to get every excuse under the sun made for him, as if he's some poor victim of circumstances, but his record of failure before Norwich says otherwise.

The whole board can go tomorrow and we'll still have the same players and manager for this season. Rate of change in the board had no bearing on the immediate problem of a collapse on the pitch during the season.

Edited November 6, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[shefcanary 2,503]

1 hour ago, Feedthewolf said:

Milwaukee offered Craig Counsell a new contract which would have made him the highest-paid manager in the whole of the MLB.

I don't think anyone expected the Cubs to offer him about 50% more than that, and make him the highest-paid manager in the history of baseball.

We really shouldn't try to draw any parallels between this and 'little old Norwich'. (Not that I'm suggesting you are; I follow baseball and just wanted to give a bit of context.)

And could explain why he hasn't appeared to be deeply involved in the current situation at Norwich, he has quite a lot going on back at home. Oh dear....

[repman 640]

1 hour ago, Google Bot said:

What resonated more are the comments where he's failed to support the coach with the roster required, which we're very familiar with already.

This is always a tricky one though, the Brewers had the 5th best record in baseball last season and over Counsell's tenure they'd comfortably in the top 10 I'd reckon. They've been to the playoffs in 5 of the last 6 seasons. It's also the case that they don't spend big money in free agency but their payroll ranked 20th in the league last season despite Milwaukee being the smallest market in the sport.

The Brewers have punched above their weight for a long time and Counsell was undoubtedly a part of that but as said above he's signed the biggest managerial contract in the history and the 5 year deal totals the same amount he earned in his 13 year playing career. Also the Cubs are a massive team who I'm sure have also told him they'll be going big in free agency too. It's pretty much the classic move of someone moving onto a bigger club, it just hurts more as Counsell was a local guy and the Cubs are direct rivals.