Mark Attanasio

[GMF 756]

21 hours ago, essex canary said:

The question is did they maximise the efforts to identify the supporter shareholders they should have sent papers to prior to 2 crucial votes. I am suspecting the answer is 'No.'

The Club is required to send papers relating to any forthcoming meetings to all shareholders at their last known address and retain a list of any returns received back for those who’ve moved away. Quite what you base your suspicions on, I don’t know, other than your unsubstantiated belief that their data management system aren’t up to your gold standard…

[Feedthewolf 4,871]

8 hours ago, shefcanary said:

And could explain why he hasn't appeared to be deeply involved in the current situation at Norwich, he has quite a lot going on back at home. Oh dear....

No more baseball until March now... once they get the coach sorted out, he should be able to focus a lot more time on the dumpster fire taking place on the other side of the Atlantic...

[BigFish 1,988]

11 hours ago, Big Vince said:

Well there you go! We are going to lurch from current owners no good to future owner no good. Delia has played a blinder hand picking a successor with all the same attributes.

Excellent work Vince, you managed to link a situation Wolfie explained quite well in a foreign country, in a sport we don't play with which there is no connection and obviously know very little to Delia.

Speaks volumes

[GMF 756]

18 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Excellent work Vince, you managed to link a situation Wolfie explained quite well in a foreign country, in a sport we don't play with which there is no connection and obviously know very little to Delia.

Speaks volumes

Michael Foulger also had significant influence in the process, too, as it was the sale of his shares that resulted in this outcome. 

[essex canary 504]

1 hour ago, GMF said:

The Club is required to send papers relating to any forthcoming meetings to all shareholders at their last known address and retain a list of any returns received back for those who’ve moved away. Quite what you base your suspicions on, I don’t know, other than your unsubstantiated belief that their data management system aren’t up to your gold standard…

If the Club has 2 different addresses for the same person on 2 different databases, which one qualifies as the 'last known address'?

There seems to be some evidence from people that the Ticketing database is more up to date which seems logical because people interact with it to a greater extent.

Why run 2 databases when 1 will suffice? Both are supposed to relate to supporters in the final analysis.

 

[GMF 756]

3 hours ago, essex canary said:

If the Club has 2 different addresses for the same person on 2 different databases, which one qualifies as the 'last known address'?

There seems to be some evidence from people that the Ticketing database is more up to date which seems logical because people interact with it to a greater extent.

Why run 2 databases when 1 will suffice? Both are supposed to relate to supporters in the final analysis.

 

I have explained the reasons to you previously. Either you’re not paying attention or ignoring me.

For sure, database management is only as good as the people involved with inputting data, so errors will occur, but to put it exclusively at the door of the club just isn’t correct, especially in an era of GDPR.

[GMF 756]

AGM information pack has arrived, including resolutions to be put before shareholders.

No additional director yet, presumably because the shares have not yet been allotted?

[PurpleCanary 5,580]

40 minutes ago, GMF said:

AGM information pack has arrived, including resolutions to be put before shareholders.

No additional director yet, presumably because the shares have not yet been allotted?

Perhaps also the EFL test for directors?

[GMF 756]

7 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Perhaps also the EFL test for directors?

That’s almost certainly correct.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,037]

1 hour ago, GMF said:

AGM information pack has arrived, including resolutions to be put before shareholders.

No additional director yet, presumably because the shares have not yet been allotted?

I preface the following with the comment that Mrs Boadicea is not a football fan, when I told her that our losses  stood at nearly £27M her face wrinkled up and she said something along the following lines "What the "f" is going on, how an earth did that happen, they ought to be one of the better off clubs, something is not right, I reckon somebody is on the fiddle". Not agreeing with what she said, but interesting to hear how shocked somebody with a passing interest in NCFC is at our parlous state..........

[nutty nigel 7,607]

25 minutes ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

I preface the following with the comment that Mrs Boadicea is not a football fan, when I told her that our losses  stood at nearly £27M her face wrinkled up and she said something along the following lines "What the "f" is going on, how an earth did that happen, they ought to be one of the better off clubs, something is not right, I reckon somebody is on the fiddle". Not agreeing with what she said, but interesting to hear how shocked somebody with a passing interest in NCFC is at our parlous state..........

SOB buddy, husbands and wives is the reason why we're going to hell in a handcart. Fathers and sons will see us 'getting our Norwich back'. I'll ask Duncan. Or maybe watch an episode of Steptoe...

Edited November 8, 2023 by nutty nigel

[shefcanary 2,446]

The accounts are printed on very heavy duty paper, which is helpful for some of us. But what would have been even more helpful is a proper clear, simple narrative of how the losses were made, how the debts were built up, and how the club aimed to clear those debts. FFS, surely that is not beyond the people who are running the club at the moment? Poor.

[Indy 3,315]

6 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

SOB buddy, husbands and wives is the reason why we're going to hell in a handcart. Fathers and sons will see us 'getting our Norwich back'. I'll ask Duncan. Or maybe watch an episode of Steptoe...

 

[PurpleCanary 5,580]

20 hours ago, GMF said:

That’s almost certainly correct.

Thinking (🥰) about it, if whoever is going to be the new director happens to be part of Norfolk then they would presumably have to pass the owners' test, just as Attanasio has had to.

[GMF 756]

9 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Thinking (🥰) about it, if whoever is going to be the new director happens to be part of Norfolk then they would presumably have to pass the owners' test, just as Attanasio has had to.

The lesser test of director, but, yes, that’s certainly correct too.

[MrBunce 245]

I think that's right @PurpleCanary and @GMF. With the Owners' and Directors' Test you've got effectively a list of conditions that disqualify you from becoming a director of a football club. Those are really quite a low bar to pass.

The other part relates to acquisition of control, i.e. becoming an owner. That part principally requires you to provide a substantial amount of financial, corporate, legal and personal information to the EFL. The EFL then checks this information and decide whether to approve the acquisition. 

The non-exhaustive list of information is set out here (Appendix 3A) : https://www.efl.com/governance/regulations/#heading-pursuant-to-appendix-3-the-acquisition-materials-are

One of those bits is (among others): "List of registered holders (together with details of the current and proposed ultimate beneficial owners (“UBO”), if different) of the shares of each entity within the Group (including name and address), with details of the shares held (or owned) and copies of any share certificates"

Presuming that the new director is one of the investors in Norfolk or a director of that company, then their details would be disclosed as part of that exercise. 

 

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,241]

A company that owns shares in Norwich City that I know has issued the following questions for the AGM tomorrow:

 

1. ‘In light of your investment in the redeemable C-preference shares, your re-financing of other club debt and your notable history in finance – all set in context against a backdrop of the increasing trends and desires in America for consolidated multi-sport franchises - what is your exit strategy?’

2. ‘Did you or any of your connected companies take a commission for any of the debt refinancing?’

3. ‘Given Delia and Michael’s repeated insistence that they would “not take a penny out of the club” do you consider there to be an inherent equity gain in the business and what do you internally value the equity gain at? What will you do with it?
 

Parma 

[Robert N. LiM 4,477]

2 minutes ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

A company that owns shares in Norwich City that I know has issued the following questions for the AGM tomorrow

Cute. And what a happy coincidence that the questions are ones you have repeatedly posted on this board 😉

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,241]

Many of my business friends consider these questions to require a public answer as a matter of basic due diligence.  

They will address these questions or they won’t @Robert N. LiM

Either outcome will say much. 

Parma 

[Robert N. LiM 4,477]

1 minute ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

Many of my business friends consider these questions to require a public answer as a matter of basic due diligence.  

They will address these questions or they won’t @Robert N. LiM

Either outcome will say much. 

Parma 

Indeed.  Just having fun. You've got to take it where you can find it at the moment...

Edited November 29, 2023 by Robert N. LiM

[GMF 756]

43 minutes ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

A company that owns shares in Norwich City that I know has issued the following questions for the AGM tomorrow:

2. ‘Did you or any of your connected companies take a commission for any of the debt refinancing?’
 

Parma 

Question 2 needs to go deeper, in my opinion.

The likes of 777 Partners, for example, with their investments in other Clubs, aren’t actually using their own monies, but 3rd party debt finance. Given that the Norfolk investors are Delaware based, further scrutiny isn’t possible. What, comfort, if any, are Norfolk able to offer in terms of the source of their funding. 

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,241]

35 minutes ago, GMF said:

Question 2 needs to go deeper, in my opinion.

The likes of 777 Partners, for example, with their investments in other Clubs, aren’t actually using their own monies, but 3rd party debt finance. Given that the Norfolk investors are Delaware based, further scrutiny isn’t possible. What, comfort, if any, are Norfolk able to offer in terms of the source of their funding. 

You’re right. Though it’s open deliberately as any answer answer other than ‘no’ already says much….

Parma 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Parma Ham's gone mouldy

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,241]

 

Posted just now

   On 29/11/2023 at 12:35,  Parma Ham's gone mouldysaid: 

A company that owns shares in Norwich City that I know has issued the following questions for the AGM tomorrow:

 

1. ‘In light of your investment in the redeemable C-preference shares, your re-financing of other club debt and your notable history in finance – all set in context against a backdrop of the increasing trends and desires in America for consolidated multi-sport franchises - what is your exit strategy?’

2. ‘Did you or any of your connected companies take a commission for any of the debt refinancing?’

3. ‘Given Delia and Michael’s repeated insistence that they would “not take a penny out of the club” do you consider there to be an inherent equity gain in the business and what do you internally value the equity gain at? What will you do with it?
 

Parma 

The questions were submitted in writing, though not addressed or referred to.

Through the course the of his answers however, Mark Attanasio gave reasonably clear indications as to his position and intentions going forwards. 
 

References to further, new ‘third party investors’ indicate a partial answer to 1.

Statements that club debt is internal and all are ‘comfortable’ with it indicates that 2 might be partially or not at all true (or doesn’t matter anymore). 

The equity gain will be his. He’s going to go pretty dynamically at Premier League, then bring in some partners (who’ll buy stock). So that’s 3. Which we already knew of course. 

However there is a resignation that this is the only show in town. No-one is much pretending it’s Mr Right, though it is Mr Right now. 

Whether it ‘just fell that way’ or whether some have engineered it that way I suppose is a moot point now. 

If he succeeds, the club will have succeeded. Maybe he’ll genuinely become a fan.  

Parma 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Parma Ham's gone mouldy

[Midlands Yellow 4,068]

13 minutes ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

 

Posted just now

   On 29/11/2023 at 12:35,  Parma Ham's gone mouldysaid: 

A company that owns shares in Norwich City that I know has issued the following questions for the AGM tomorrow:

 

1. ‘In light of your investment in the redeemable C-preference shares, your re-financing of other club debt and your notable history in finance – all set in context against a backdrop of the increasing trends and desires in America for consolidated multi-sport franchises - what is your exit strategy?’

2. ‘Did you or any of your connected companies take a commission for any of the debt refinancing?’

3. ‘Given Delia and Michael’s repeated insistence that they would “not take a penny out of the club” do you consider there to be an inherent equity gain in the business and what do you internally value the equity gain at? What will you do with it?
 

Parma 

The questions were submitted in writing, though not addressed or referred to.

Through the course the of his answers however, Mark Attanasio gave reasonably clear indications as to his position and intentions going forwards. 
 

References to further, new ‘third party investors’ indicate a partial answer to 1.

Statements that club debt is internal and all are ‘comfortable’ with it indicates that 2 might be partially or not at all true (or doesn’t matter anymore). 

The equity gain will be his. He’s going to go pretty dynamically at Premier League, then bring in some partners (who’ll buy stock). So that’s 3. Which we already knew of course. 

However there is a resignation that this is the only show in town. No-one is much pretending it’s Mr Right, though it is Mr Right now. 

Whether it ‘just fell that way’ or whether some have engineered it that way I suppose is a moot point now. 

If he succeeds, the club will have succeeded. Maybe he’ll genuinely become a fan.  

Parma 

S&J are 82 and only intended to put a relative in charge who barely knows what day it is. Thank the Lord we are not going down that path to guarantee failure. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Midlands Yellow

[Jim Smith 2,339]

In those pictures from the AGM, Attanasio has the look of a man for whom the Kenny has just dropped as he realises what he has signed up for! 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Jim Smith

[mastoola 185]

1 minute ago, Jim Smith said:

In those pictures from the AGM, Attanasio has the look of a man for whom the Kenny has just dropped as he realises what he has signed up for! 

i guess Kenny is Freudian 

[Jim Smith 2,339]

Just now, mastoola said:

i guess Kenny is Freudian 

Sorry yes, should be penny!

[Grando 269]

40 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

In those pictures from the AGM, Attanasio has the look of a man for whom the Kenny has just dropped as he realises what he has signed up for! 

Kenny is never dropped! We all should know that by now.

[Mello Yello 2,302]

47 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Sorry yes, should be penny!

To coin a phase.....

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,241]

Parma Ham's gone mouldy     2,000

 

Posted Wednesday at 23:05

Following the AGM I feel that this sporting thread and the Mark Attanasio financial thread are converging. 

As I suppose they must.

Delia came over a little resigned, disillusioned and deflated before, during and after the meeting. I suspect much that was said by Attanasio, Knapper and others in the audience rather fed into that feeling too. 

The feeing of an era passing. 

‘We do not have to guess if we can read the book’ is one of my father’s wisest sayings. For those who were really paying attention, there was a lot said - a lot of hiding in plain sight - much of which we had speculated, observed and calculated.

Delia referred to the past, to rescuing the club, to the fear of debt, to where we have come from. 

Mark Attanasio spoke of now being ‘Comfortable with the debt’.

Ben Knapper spoke of decisions going forwards that could be made ‘on a sporting basis rather than a financial one’

These are both significant changes. 

Avoiding the extreme cliff-edge of absolutist self-funded Finances allows for Sporting decisions to not be compulsive acts of self-harm. In practical terms this means you sell Buendia after relegation, not in the summer before promotion having promised the squad to ‘come back stronger’. 

Attanasio is ‘comfortable with the debt’ because it is now internal. Though of course it also floats on a bed of equity. Yes realisable only upon sale - and upon profitable sale at that - though Attanasio was ‘only this morning talking to Australia’ about ‘third-party funding’. He repeated several times that he will ‘later…look for third party funding’.

Let me clarify in practice: buy into the club cheaply as it struggles, take overall control, try to achieve success within the nominal equity gain bequeathed, sell minority shares on the up to third parties, end up with an appreciating asset. The club owns its own stadium, its own training ground, further land and the squad of players are liquid assets. 

It’s a different world we are going into now. Some benefits, some drawbacks. 

As @nutty nigel has repeatedly pointed out, fan ownership goes with Delia. Local connections go with Delia. It stretches back a long time. The question ‘why would you invest in a baseball club in Milwaukee?’ is a perfectly reasonable one.

Here are some positives noises from Mark Attanasio  for balance:

MA: Finance Committee plus MA Group meet, budget 2 years ahead, ‘comfortable with current debt levels, must compete in your division, must have Premier as goal’

MA: We must be a Premier League Team […to achieve our ultimate aims..]

MA: We will later look for 3rd parties to come on board [invest, buy stocks]..talked to Australia

MA: 35 of 92 football clubs now have American owners or notable involvement..

MA: Compete…NCFC attractive…community..similar Milwaukee..passion…sport..family

MA:  Crescent Capital London office..FT editors talked about Norwich!

MA: Stadium, infrastructure [Ressler]…

MA: #1 Competitive Team…’keep trying to compete’..

MA: Keep adding  players…repeatable system…(with BK reports and analysis)..provide finances…younger players…actually costs money…academy not often ready immediately…buy quality

MA: We’ll support BK recommendations..firm foundations in place to make sure we stay up…

MA: Correlation between money and success clear

MA ‘I know how to raise capital…will bring in 3rd parties..about Finance …aligned group at Milwaukee…’

Mark has been talking to Ben for a while. They talk. They text. 

For anyone left in any doubt at all about lines of demarcation and roles and responsibilities ( @Don J Demorr ) Ben and Mark made it very, very clear. There has been a sudden land grab. All the sporting power is now with the Sporting Director:

BK: The Head Coach sets up the team, works with them during week (‘just like the American model in Baseball’)…’all the recruitment is my responsibility’

Of course ‘it would be crazy to bring players the head didn’t want’ and ‘that won’t happen’ …but that role is at my door…

The Head Coach - let’s call him Daniel for argument’s sake - will still be the lightning rod for ills of course. 

 This of course exactly suits the smiling Attanasio. He now (already)  holds Ultimate power.  He’s putting the money in. He may say that he doesn’t fully understand the game, though he does understand data. He can check it. Measure it. Watch over it. Control it. He carefully selected Ben Knapper due to his data background. Knapper referred to ‘Mark’ regularly. There were lots of candidates. ‘CEO types’….Director of football types with more ‘experience’….though someone who mirrors the baseball process, is data-driven, fresh, young and grateful (easily-controlled by the paymasters?) is perfect. Yes I suppose so. 

I think Ben Knapper came over extremely well by the way. We liked him. Different threads and thoughts often co-exist in football and life though…

Ben Knapper stated the following:

BK: Deploying assets on the field that are depreciating is to be checked 

BK: Roles & responsibilities, lines of communication…(all recruitment is driven by me) 

BK: Age increase in squad was conscious decision [back then]..leadership..reacting to other situations…went too far…[over]reacting to other situations…

BK: Oldest squad in league…not good for self-funded..so assets to be injected into the squad…young age = value..that’s the focus going forwards..youth is my personal history…must also give them exposure!

BK: Injuries..highest output in league…explosive actions [a lot to ask for oldies?]

BK: Long term view is the way that I work

BK: Ultimate responsibility for recruitment with SD [Head Coach must be happy and on board]

BK: Age profile key ….there will be money from MA to invest in quality youth (not cheap)

In case we were in any doubt that Mark’s money is going to change how Ben can act, Anthony Richens confirmed the following:

AR: Debt has moved from external to internal

AR: ‘Can now make decisions on a sporting basis’…(so couldn’t before)…

’..It’s ultimately still a player trading model ….and always will be..’…(though not sporting self harm as previously)

AR: £2.8m historical tax error [Auditors missed?]

The questions the Company issued in writing to the club for the AGM were surprisingly not referred to or addressed…

1.‘In light of your investment in the redeemable C-preference shares, your re-financing of other club debt and your notable history in finance – all set in context against a backdrop of the increasing trends and desires in America for consolidated multi-sport franchises - what is your exit strategy?

2. ‘Did you or any of your connected companies take a commission for any of the debt refinancing?’

3. ‘Given Delia and Michael’s repeated insistence that they would “not take a penny out of the club” do you consider there to be an inherent equity gain in the business and what do you internally value the equity gain at? What will you do with it?

….Though of course they were ultimately questions that were protective of Delia and her legacy - and questioning of Mark Attanasio’s ultimate intentions and motivations. Our belief is that they reached the right ears as intended. 

Regardless they de-facto got answers at the meeting in any case. Hiding in plain sight you see. 

1. Pump some early money in*,  increase the value of the overall asset, take on Third Party investment. On the phone to Australia about it this morning ’ (Australia? Not the tightest of criteria then….)

2. Bought C-Pref. Other internal (own companies or finance partners). No mention of charging interest. ‘Comfortable with it’. No mention of under what circumstances such loans or interest might be redeemable. 

3. Early funds injected up to £43m (our figures) are  riding on Delia’s handed-on unrealized equity gain. This can cover the early cost of buy in, then can sit on the Equity until a major offer appears ‘that can’t be refused’…

 

It wouldn’t be too much of a stretch to suggest that Attanasio ‘looking good’ early on is actually doing so with Delia’s money. 

She has been a wonderful benefactor to Norwich. She gave what she could. It wasn’t enough and as time went on we had to injure ourselves to survive without even much of an overdraft. We were scarred by debt in a world that had fallen in love with it, got addicted to it and used it as a financial game of pass-the-CDF-parcel. 

It was all a bit of an anachronism and - along with Webber’s desire to polish his own buttons - it cost us Farke, a year of Buendia at the top level when we were on the up and left us with daft players we shouldn’t use, who in the end nobody wanted. Plus of course it cost us the entire positional Play club-wide education. Very expensive that bit I’d suggest. 

I suppose you could argue that Delia’s relative football poverty is to blame for Webber’s twisted sporting contortions, though goodness me he could hardly have sent us into a worse tailspin if he had tried. 

As Greg Downes said recently when asking about the import of Josh Sargent’s injury on Norwich’s season: ‘ yes ok….but come on…he’s not a world  beater…’ 

Wagner’s interesting early season model with Sargent and Barnes as double false 9’s was quite interesting. It got worked out pretty quickly I thought and it certainly risked exposing our ongoing Achilles heel of lack of central defensive midfield protection (be it on-field personnel, tactics, zonal or suitable psychological profile). Doing it with Idah, Hwang or whoever looks daft.

 

Knapper-Attanasio will keep Wagner on a while - until something genuinely better can be found and attracted, though I suspect that it will be the roles and responsibilities, lines of communication and internal land grabs that are the major focus for American minds first….lots of control mechanisms now being put in place I’d suggest. 

‘I’m not a control freak’ he repeated several times in several interviews. 

On a personal note - and yes as a counterpoint - It isn’t long ago that we had a Black Manager, a gay Director and a woman owner. A real fan too. Call me sentimental, but I thought that was rather wonderful.

Now we’ve got an American financier. Just like everyone else.

I have talked before about Norwich ‘solving yesterday’s problems’. Many businesses are unintentionally run like that. Ben Knapper even  gently criticized the ancien regime at Norwich for it. 

I can’t help thinking that the little bit of extra money that Attanasio can lay his hands on was needed to keep Buendia for a year, keep Skippy in the building for another year and keep Farke ‘I don’t understand changing head coaches so often’ and the positional play methodology flowing through the pristine fields of Colney. That’s all yesterday now though. 

Attanasio might now find himself watching steaming columns of Matrix data, throwing some good money at the worst glitches, though finding we are actually quite a long way away from where we were. And it’s a long, draining and rather expensive journey back to 22nd. And then you’re still a bloody long way - sportingly and financially - from 17th. Though of course Australia will no doubt help you out at that point….

Delia holds her head in her hands when we lose. She had delegated authority and responsibility to others so she could stay a fan. It has cost her in the end. She has had to take Mr Right Now. I suspect she is questioning it all a little…

…though the tectonic plates have moved and she is now discovering the power of debt. 

Parma 

 

Edited Thursday at 14:43 by Parma Ham's gone mouldy

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