****The Official Lapps Match Thread v Wigan (Champ) *****

[Newtopia 517]

6 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Thing that wories me is that if we draw against Wigan after losing to Cardiff how are we going to do against Watford and Burnley?

We need to be better, but there were signs today.  We were comfortably the better side, my main concern would be how physical the league is going to be.  The ref was lenient, the challenges weren't.  If that is a consistent approach all season we are going to struggle.

[Indy 3,300]

7 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

You didn’t see anything today to suggest that will change?

I’m not at all certain he’s going to be a success but I saw plenty of potential today for things to change.

Remember this is a cobbled together side who have just rebuilt a league lower, their manager did a tactical job better than Smith, their players set up and took a point. Did very well last year to win league 1. Question is will they take points away at better managed teams?

You can only play the team in front of you and these two teams are two with very low budgets and yet we’ve only taken one point! I saw us have a few good performances, at times we controlled the ball but the reality is better sides than Wigan will cause us more problems. So if every team in this league is a poor as Wigan than great but they’re not!

I do think we’ve got a very strong squad but yet again I question if Smith is getting the players to invest in him and his coaching as were now 29 league games with just three wins under Smith. Is it really good enough?

Edited August 6, 2022 by Indy

[hogesar 9,673]

Watching in Italy with a couple of Wigan fans, who felt we completely dominated and thought they should have lost by several goals, absolutely over the moon with a point.

Clearly we are a side lacking confidence but we dominated start to finish. Gibsons individual errors aside we didn't do much wrong. Keep playing like that and goals will come as will confidence.

Opta Stats, who clubs pay huge sums for their data, will tell you to be incredibly optimistic based off of today. 

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

1 hour ago, Helsinki canary said:

Gibson now takes the most over rated player title, absolute donkey 

A supreme over reaction. Unfortunately, his mistake is what happens when a player who hasn't had a preseason through injury is thrown right in. 

It was a much better performance than Cardiff. Let's start by giving credit to Wigan. I thought they really did defend well. How they defended will definitely be an example of how teams are likely to come to Carrow Road. 

Positives

1. Nunez looked good. This was after just two days of training with this team. Early days, but the suggestion he could be the spiritual successor to Buendia seems to be on the mark.

2. Aarons. My MOTM; I was thinking this before the goal, his defensive performance was solid and whenever he got on the ball in an offensive position, he looked threatening. 

3. That first 30 minutes was superb. Wigan struggled to cope and we created several good opportunities. I think if we'd have scored at this point, our confidence would likely have taken over and I think we'd have finished with a comfortable win. Sadly, that didn't happen.

Negative

1. Injuries. Dimi looked in a lot of pain. Aarons less so; but two injuries to two keys players is never a good thing. I wouldn't be surprised to see Dimi laid off now for a while.

2. I felt our substitutions didn't really make us stronger today. At the end of the day, some were enforced on us, like McCallum and Sara. I was more thinking about Sargent, Sinani and Onel. For me, none really had a discernable impact on the game. Many might think that harsh on Onel. He got into good positions, beat his man a couple of time. But he also gave the ball away and his crossing was wayward. 

3. Teemu Pukki. Two good chances today. Missed a free header at the near post too. On another day, Teemu would have scored two or three. He cuts a frustrated figure up front at the moment. I hope that changes. 

4. Refereeing performance. Another poor championship refereeing performance. I really did think the tackle on Max Aarons was absolutely a penalty. I also felt in a season in which referees are supposed to be cracking down on time wasting, he didn't come down hard enough on Wigan who took the **** more than once.

5. Two points dropped. We can't avoid having dropped two points which could be important come the end of the season. It only cranks up the pressure against Huddersfield, who will be under pressure themselves to come and get the points. 

Krul: 6
Aarons: 7
Dimi: 6
Gibson: 4
Omo: 6
McLean 5
Sorenson 5
Cantwell 6.5
Nunez 6
Rashica 5
Pukki 5

Subs
Hernandez 5
Sinani 4
McCallum 5
Sargent 5
Sara not on long enough
 

Edited August 6, 2022 by Terminally Yellow

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,753]

Smith set us off on the wrong foot with that negative midfield first half selection...didnt need a holding midfielder at home to wigan

Main culprit in the 2nd half was the ref however

That non awarding of the Aarons pen isnt incompetent..it goes beyond that.

Theres something else , corrupt going on if that isnt awarded

[Helsinki canary 242]

1 minute ago, Terminally Yellow said:

A supreme over reaction. Unfortunately, his mistake is what happens when a player who hasn't had a preseason through injury is thrown right in. 

It was a much better performance than Cardiff. Let's start by giving credit to Wigan. I thought they really did defend well. How they defended will definitely be an example of how teams are likely to come to Carrow Road. 

Positives

1. Nunez looked good. This was after just two days of training with this team. Early days, but the suggestion he could be the spiritual successor to Buendia seems to be on the mark.

2. Aarons. My MOTM; I was thinking this before the goal, his defensive performance was solid and whenever he got on the ball in an offensive position, he looked threatening. 

3. That first 30 minutes was superb. Wigan struggled to cope and we created several good opportunities. I think if we'd have scored at this point, our confidence would likely have taken over and I think we'd have finished with a comfortable win. Sadly, that didn't happen.

Negative

1. Injuries. Dimi looked in a lot of pain. Aarons less so; but two injuries to two keys players is never a good thing. I wouldn't be surprised to see Dimi laid off now for a while.

2. I felt our substitutions didn't really make us stronger today. At the end of the day, some were enforced on us, like McCallum and Sara. I was more thinking about Sargent, Sinani and Onel. For me, none really had a discernable impact on the game. Many might think that harsh on Onel. He got into good positions, beat his man a couple of time. But he also gave the ball away and his crossing was wayward. 

3. Teemu Pukki. Two good chances today. Missed a free header at the near post too. On another day, Teemu would have scored two or three. He cuts a frustrated figure up front at the moment. I hope that changes. 

4. Refereeing performance. Another poor championship refereeing performance. I really did think the tackle on Max Aarons was absolutely a penalty. I also felt in a season in which referees are supposed to be cracking down on time wasting, he didn't come down hard enough on Wigan who took the **** more than once.

5. Two points dropped. We can't avoid having dropped two points which could be important come the end of the season. It only cranks up the pressure against Huddersfield, who will be under pressure themselves to come and get the points. 

Good summary 

[baldy09 156]

IS SMITH GOOD ENOUGH FOR US OR DO WE NEED A CHANCE SOONER OR LATER

[Robert N. LiM 4,350]

2 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

A supreme over reaction. Unfortunately, his mistake is what happens when a player who hasn't had a preseason through injury is thrown right in. 

It was a much better performance than Cardiff. Let's start by giving credit to Wigan. I thought they really did defend well. How they defended will definitely be an example of how teams are likely to come to Carrow Road. 

Positives

1. Nunez looked good. This was after just two days of training with this team. Early days, but the suggestion he could be the spiritual successor to Buendia seems to be on the mark.

2. Aarons. My MOTM; I was thinking this before the goal, his defensive performance was solid and whenever he got on the ball in an offensive position, he looked threatening. 

3. That first 30 minutes was superb. Wigan struggled to cope and we created several good opportunities. I think if we'd have scored at this point, our confidence would likely have taken over and I think we'd have finished with a comfortable win. Sadly, that didn't happen.

Negative

1. Injuries. Dimi looked in a lot of pain. Aarons less so; but two injuries to two keys players is never a good thing. I wouldn't be surprised to see Dimi laid off now for a while.

2. I felt our substitutions didn't really make us stronger today. At the end of the day, some were enforced on us, like McCallum and Sara. I was more thinking about Sargent, Sinani and Onel. For me, none really had a discernable impact on the game. Many might think that harsh on Onel. He got into good positions, beat his man a couple of time. But he also gave the ball away and his crossing was wayward. 

3. Teemu Pukki. Two good chances today. Missed a free header at the near post too. On another day, Teemu would have scored two or three. He cuts a frustrated figure up front at the moment. I hope that changes. 

4. Refereeing performance. Another poor championship refereeing performance. I really did think the tackle on Max Aarons was absolutely a penalty. I also felt in a season in which referees are supposed to be cracking down on time wasting, he didn't come down hard enough on Wigan who took the **** more than once.

5. Two points dropped. We can't avoid having dropped two points which could be important come the end of the season. It only cranks up the pressure against Huddersfield, who will be under pressure themselves to come and get the points. 

That's an excellent review of the game, by which I mean, pretty much exactly how I saw it. @ricardo, you can stand down.

[Monty13 2,234]

5 minutes ago, Indy said:

Remember this is a cobbled together side who have just rebuilt a league lower, their manager did a tactical job better than Smith, their players set up and took a point. Question is will they take points away at better managed teams?

You can only play the team in front of you and these two teams are two with very low budgets and yet we’ve only taken one point! I saw us have a few good performances, at times we controlled the ball but the reality is better sides than Wigan will cause us more problems. So if every team in this league is a poor as Wigan than great but they’re not!

I do think we’ve got a very strong squad but yet again I question if Smith is getting the players to invest in him and his coaching as were now 29 league games with just three wins under Smith. Is it really good enough?

And if Nunez had hit the target, Pukki had took an inch off his strike and generally been less wasteful, someone had followed Aaron’s crossshot in for a tap in, Gibson hadn’t gifted them a goal, referee hadn’t fluffed his lines and numerous other possibilities we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

Small moments make the difference.

Hes also managing a team full of confidence as opposed to a shattered and rebuilding one.

I’m not saying smiths the answer but when you break it down people are overreacting to a few moments not going our way.

Edited August 6, 2022 by Monty13

[hogesar 9,673]

2 minutes ago, Indy said:

Remember this is a cobbled together side who have just rebuilt a league lower, their manager did a tactical job better than Smith, their players set up and took a point. Did very well last year to win league 1. Question is will they take points away at better managed teams?

You can only play the team in front of you and these two teams are two with very low budgets and yet we’ve only taken one point! I saw us have a few good performances, at times we controlled the ball but the reality is better sides than Wigan will cause us more problems. So if every team in this league is a poor as Wigan than great but they’re not!

I do think we’ve got a very strong squad but yet again I question if Smith is getting the players to invest in him and his coaching as were now 29 league games with just three wins under Smith. Is it really good enough?

Teams better than Wigan will commit more forward and try to counter with more than 2 players, so typically there will be more space if we do what we did today and press collectively at key trigger points.

Absolutely dominated today, couple of Gibbo individual errors aside. They were zero threat out of their own attacking ability.

This game was a huge throwback to our loss against Derby at the start of Farkes championship winning season. Stats remarkably similar too.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

10 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

If you think that consistently playing like that today will have us anywhere near promotion then you are severely underestimating the task ahead. Massive improvement on what we’ve seen today will be needed. I’ve seen nothing to suggest he is capable of getting it

What we've seen today is a massive improvement on last week; what factual grounds do you have to believe we will be consistently playing like today all season?

Edited August 6, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[Virtual reality 707]

1 minute ago, Monty13 said:

And if Nunez had hit the target, Pukki had took an inch off his stroke and generally been less wasteful, someone had followed Aaron’s crossshot in for a tap in, Gibson hadn’t gifted them a goal, referee hadn’t fluffed his lines and numerous other possibilities we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

Small moments make the difference.

Hes also managing a team full of confidence as opposed to a shattered and rebuilding one.

I’m not saying smiths the answer but when you break it down people are overreacting to a few moments not going our way.

If my aunt had balls….

[Monty13 2,234]

Just now, Virtual reality said:

If my aunt had balls….

So you only care about results? In which case making a decision after 2 seems a bit premature.

[Virtual reality 707]

Just now, Monty13 said:

So you only care about results? In which case making a decision after 2 seems a bit premature.

It’s a results business. If it wasn’t a far superior manager who actually had a game plan, identity and knew how to implement it at this level would still be here 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

3 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

So you only care about results? In which case making a decision after 2 seems a bit premature.

Don't feed the troll. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Why people say it was better than Cardiff I don't know. We were at home to a team arguably with a worse squad than last season and we had a new signing to boost the team.

Pukki had chances today. Not only for himself but for teammates and he didn't look good. Rashica might as well go to BMG because he can't deliver for us. Gibson is a liability. Sargent hasn't got it.

Plus side. Nunez has a game under his belt. Hernandez, although clumsy, is a threat. McCallum looks good enough. Aarons is possibly the best player in this division. Todd is looking for work and looking to try something different. AO is calmness personified.

Tactics. Players do not seem to stay in their positions. Not sure Nunez knew what was happening with Kenny roaming all over the place. The press is difficult to maintain for 90 minutes but we stopped it as soon as they scored and they dominated for the next ten after that.

[Indy 3,300]

3 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

So you only care about results? In which case making a decision after 2 seems a bit premature.

😂😂😂 I’m sorry Monty! Results, if we’re making a case based on results which other club or set of fans would be so happy to have a manager with 29 games played, 3 wins!? Regardless of league or players being blamed! It’s awful and I’d love for anyone to come up with a manager who had a worse record in any league!

[chicken 2,624]

I think it's clear to see that once Nunez and Sara have had more game time and settled in a bit, we have a couple of decent players on our hands there.

A certain Mr Walton said last week that sometimes you need a draw more than a victory. I think he's right, sometimes you need to fight hard and get a draw to know that you need to fight hard all of the time. It's progress. Next week Nunez will have had another week with this squad, Sara the same and another week of football behind him. Ramsey joins in properly.

Just need a little more rub of the green. Two very dangerous tackles today, one looks to have at least impacted on Giannoulis' ankle ligaments I would say, the other could have done damage to Aarons but I suspect just a sore knock on that one. Two games were teams have gone at us "robustly" to say the least, though Cardiff were worse. We clearly can't rely on refs for protection or decisions. 

[Monty13 2,234]

1 minute ago, Virtual reality said:

It’s a results business. If it wasn’t a far superior manager who actually had a game plan, identity and knew how to implement it at this level would still be here 

Not denying results aren’t important, if it’s about results though probably need a larger sample size to make a decision from is my point. Especially if ignoring all other context.

[Virtual reality 707]

1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Don't feed the troll. 

Someone has an opinion I don’t like or agree with is a troll… what a tool

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

16 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

It's all very Neil Adams Championship season. Squad is talented enough and the manager wants to attack but he's just not the guy. We'll win enough to keep ourselves in reach of the top 6 but not much more. 'Deano and Shakey' need to be shot into the sun asap.

The only parallel is that Adams also was given an impossible task inheriting a squad in the Premier League with too much to do. That's where the parallels end. 

Today's game was vastly more positive on the performance side compared to last week. There is no reason to start pant-wetting two games in, when the squad is clearly moving the right way and has plenty of room to develop as new players bed in and they regain confidence after a bruising Premier League campaign. 

[Monty13 2,234]

3 minutes ago, Indy said:

😂😂😂 I’m sorry Monty! Results, if we’re making a case based on results which other club or set of fans would be so happy to have a manager with 29 games played, 3 wins!? Regardless of league or players being blamed! It’s awful and I’d love for anyone to come up with a manager who had a worse record in any league!

I mean if you want to ignore any context sure. Not denying his current overall record is dire.

However which club has sacked their manager 2 games into a major rebuild?

Edited August 6, 2022 by Monty13

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

1 minute ago, Virtual reality said:

Someone has an opinion I don’t like or agree with is a troll… what a tool

Whatever you say, troll. 

[Virtual reality 707]

Just now, Monty13 said:

Not denying results aren’t important, if it’s about results though probably need a larger sample size to make a decision from is my point. Especially if ignoring all other context.

2 games in and he’s got 4 left to show significant improvement for me. Farke only got 11 at a higher level after all he had achieved here. I see no reason why Smith should be given any more respect or time than Farke was 

[Virtual reality 707]

1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Whatever you say, troll. 

Great insight….

[El Convento 14]

Strange game.  You would have thought that the Leam Richardson had thrown it from the off by setting up
to play us with so much respect.  They stood off us for 25 minutes, up until around the time of the
Krul save, when it seemed to dawn on them that they didn't need to.  After that, the game was much more like
last week: an uncreative and unphysical side with a modicum of individual talent versus
a mob of unthreatening cloggers.  Hard to see how either side would score. It wasn't that we had a
great first 25 minutes: it was that they let us play without interference.

Yet Smith, like Richardson was also guilty of showing too much respect - in his case for Teemu.  Like
many on here, Smith evidently feels that Pukki is nailed on for 90 minutes every week.  Pukki is an
OK finisher if provided with enough through balls into space, but that isn't going to happen
much this season.  He's not so useful in a scrap or a footrace against the usual agricultural centre 
back.  His decisions often weren't that good today either. 

In the absence of any other physical striker (I don't count Sargeant, although he's physical) I suppose 
we should be putting Hugill on (probably starting him) - at least he (like Hernandez) can hold his own and would be an aerial threat (since we seem to be crossing nowadays). He finished respectably in pre-season. 

I suppose that there will be days when we are luckier with the ref, and may get a penalty or two (Wigan will
certainly concede some) but we can't rely on it, and there are plenty who will apply the same ethos as today's
ref, who evidently considers it's 'a man's game', so no need to apply the rules.

[BroadstairsR 2,168]

How many wins has this inspirational-free manager had since taking over the job? Two, three?

I've always been in the camp that suggests that Smith needs time, despite the fact that he does little for me, but these first two results are insane considering the difference in class/cost/wages etc of our band of elites from the two outfits we have been faced with.

We were better, we played (quite) well, there were signs, we were unlucky, the ref etc. So what? Five points down the drain against the weakest of opponents.

I am beginning to think that we have a duffer who has failed to resonate in any way shape or form with the players and the fans.

Did anyone particularly note the pair of them on the touchline cluelessly trying to be footballing tacticians whilst in effect doing nothing other than the obvious to break the game? I did. 

Thanks again, S.Webber for another blinder.

Knee-jerk? Of course. 100% it is.  Why not? Could this start, so easy on paper, have gone any worse? The tea-lady could have managed one point from these two games.

Tweedledee and Tweedledum (tightly) wearing City regalia whilst puzzling and pointing on the touchline at Carrow Road for ninety minutes do nothing for me. They don't even look the part.

 

Edited August 6, 2022 by BroadstairsR

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

3 minutes ago, Indy said:

😂😂😂 I’m sorry Monty! Results, if we’re making a case based on results which other club or set of fans would be so happy to have a manager with 29 games played, 3 wins!? Regardless of league or players being blamed! It’s awful and I’d love for anyone to come up with a manager who had a worse record in any league!

Jesus Christ, how can you spout this cr4p with a straight face knowing that he inherited what was already a massively failing team under a manager we knew to have a great record with us? 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

15 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Watching in Italy with a couple of Wigan fans, who felt we completely dominated and thought they should have lost by several goals, absolutely over the moon with a point.

Clearly we are a side lacking confidence but we dominated start to finish. Gibsons individual errors aside we didn't do much wrong. Keep playing like that and goals will come as will confidence.

Opta Stats, who clubs pay huge sums for their data, will tell you to be incredibly optimistic based off of today. 

It's not clubs who keep opta going, it's betting companies primarily. Broadcast and print media also. Clubs might use it as part of their performance analysis, but it essentially exists for betting markets.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

9 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

And if Nunez had hit the target, Pukki had took an inch off his strike and generally been less wasteful, someone had followed Aaron’s crossshot in for a tap in, Gibson hadn’t gifted them a goal, referee hadn’t fluffed his lines and numerous other possibilities we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

Small moments make the difference.

Hes also managing a team full of confidence as opposed to a shattered and rebuilding one.

I’m not saying smiths the answer but when you break it down people are overreacting to a few moments not going our way.

But they didn't hit the target. That is two matches against teams in flux and we are all incredibly disappointed. Only one more shot on target than the opposition at home is not impressive. Gibson did gift them and nearly did it again second half. So thats our fault not Wigan playing well.

Luckily its early days but the disappointment continues from the end of last season.