Garth Crooks

[BarclayWazza 91]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59031790

Mason Mount: It was good to see Mount back in a Chelsea shirt and among the goals again. However, this wasn't about Mount but Norwich. Six league defeats and two draws out of eight games and Daniel Farke is still there? I said as early as the first game of the season that Norwich were down and it is as much the owners' fault as the manager.

Norwich have made no attempt to avoid what is painfully obvious to me. They are happy to enjoy their time with the Premier League but not prepared to make the investment to at least try to stay there. It's shameful.

It really isn't good enough but what I don't understand is why do Norwich fans seem to accept it? That's the most disappointing thing.

Baffles me as well fella.

[sgncfc 1,228]

He seriously thinks we are enjoying this? And he's "disappointed" that we accept it?

I can see why some outsiders hold the views they hold, but Crooks is so out of touch with modern football it is embarrassing. What level of investment would he like us to make in order to "at least try"?

[hogesar 9,673]

I mean, Garth Crooks isn't a Norwich fan and its hardly surprising he's spouting without doing some basic research but as a Norwich fan I thought you would have.

His point is invalid. Unless he's going to accuse several other clubs of the same. We spent more than the other two promoted clubs in the Summer. Just because they're not in the relegation zone its ok not to invest, apparently. That we may have bought the wrong players would be an argument, but not the one he's making. Probably because he's not bothered to even look who we've signed,  and just assumed the same as 2 years ago.

[Midlands Yellow 3,985]

5 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I mean, Garth Crooks isn't a Norwich fan and its hardly surprising he's spouting without doing some basic research but as a Norwich fan I thought you would have.

His point is invalid. Unless he's going to accuse several other clubs of the same. We spent more than the other two promoted clubs in the Summer. Just because they're not in the relegation zone its ok not to invest, apparently. That we may have bought the wrong players would be an argument, but not the one he's making. Probably because he's not bothered to even look who we've signed,  and just assumed the same as 2 years ago.

You tell em Hoggy. Now get some rest you’ve a business to run in the morning. 

[Normann for Norfolk 17]

I’m a Norwich fan of 45 years standing and a long term season holder - a loyal fan. Of course I don’t agree that we’re currently enjoying our time in the PL but there is a grain of truth in these comments from Garth Crooks. We won’t succeed with the current Board/owners because they lack ambition and the ruthless streak that is needed to operate in the PL. I don’t buy the argument that we can’t compete because we don’t have rich owners. I don’t expect us to win the PL or get into Europe but tactical guile, desire, will to win, ambition cost nothing - the Board have wasted numerous opportunities now to establish Norwich as a PL club with their ‘little old Norwich’ attitude. 
 

it’s completely clear now that although Farke has been a great servant of the club, he’s out of his depth at the top level. I predict the Board will stumble on for at least another 10 games with a misguided sense of loyalty, failing to take the ruthless decision that’s need to keep us up.....we desperately need a manager who can inject a bit of desire, fight, confidence before it’s too late. There are 29 games left. 
 

Alas I think Delia and the board will leave it too late as they did with Worthington and Hughton and once their hand is forced Farke’s legacy will trashed and Norwich will be down.

[BarclayWazza 91]

8 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I mean, Garth Crooks isn't a Norwich fan and its hardly surprising he's spouting without doing some basic research but as a Norwich fan I thought you would have.

His point is invalid. Unless he's going to accuse several other clubs of the same. We spent more than the other two promoted clubs in the Summer. Just because they're not in the relegation zone its ok not to invest, apparently. That we may have bought the wrong players would be an argument, but not the one he's making. Probably because he's not bothered to even look who we've signed,  and just assumed the same as 2 years ago.

The only money we spent was generated from the sale of the best player ever likely to pull on a city shirt (not counting Gibson and Giannoulis' purchases as from previous seasons budgets). Our net spend won't have been much. You must have missed Brentford keeping hold of their best players and actually adding to their squad. Regardless, its brilliant spending 20 million of the Buendia money on players that you then bench.

 

It's obvious to nearly everyone who isn't a Delia apologist, including Jake Humphrey, who tried his hardest pre game to champion "the model", that said model leaves us sleepwalking towards relegation without as much as a whimper once again and it's the apologists that are left behind scratching around for excuses and misdirection.

[BarclayWazza 91]

3 minutes ago, Normann for Norfolk said:

I’m a Norwich fan of 45 years standing and a long term season holder - a loyal fan. Of course I don’t agree that we’re currently enjoying our time in the PL but there is a grain of truth in these comments from Garth Crooks. We won’t succeed with the current Board/owners because they lack ambition and the ruthless streak that is needed to operate in the PL. I don’t buy the argument that we can’t compete because we don’t have rich owners. I don’t expect us to win the PL or get into Europe but tactical guile, desire, will to win, ambition cost nothing - the Board have wasted numerous opportunities now to establish Norwich as a PL club with their ‘little old Norwich’ attitude. 
 

it’s completely clear now that although Farke has been a great servant of the club, he’s out of his depth at the top level. I predict the Board will stumble on for at least another 10 games with a misguided sense of loyalty, failing to take the ruthless decision that’s need to keep us up.....we desperately need a manager who can inject a bit of desire, fight, confidence before it’s too late. There are 29 games left. 
 

Alas I think Delia and the board will leave it too late as they did with Worthington and Hughton and once their hand is forced Farke’s legacy will trashed and Norwich will be down.

The last PL season was an optimum opportunity to establish ourselves. Lots of young, upcoming players to build a team around, crying out for an experienced defender to bring Godfrey, Aarons and Lewis along.  But no, a pitiful spend of a few million in loan fees on players who hardly played and perma-injured full backs.  All defended by the fans who somehow bought into the mantra that spending any sort of money was wrong because we don't want another Naismith or RVW.  Pathetic.

[Normann for Norfolk 17]

The great shame is that this time we actually spent some money......however, Sargent, Gibson, Giannoulis have all been cruelly exposed in the PL - Tzolis and Rashica haven’t really had the opportunity to show what they can do. What we needed to recruit was a CDM with some experience and guile and a striker of real quality and physicality - 2 good players. Pukki has been amazing but without Buendi he’s a pale shadow.......

[Branston Pickle 3,659]

Oh look, another “I told you so” pundit, pretty much saying that the only way to survive is with tonnes of cash, and thinking that’s just fine. Is that what the game has become?

I’ve used his own phrase, just correcting one word, to sum it up perfectly.

It really isn't good enough but what I don't understand is why do football fans seem to accept it? That's the most disappointing thing.

[BarclayWazza 91]

 

2 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Oh look, another “I told you so” pundit, pretty much saying that the only way to survive is with tonnes of cash, and thinking that’s just fine. Is that what the game has become?

I’ve used his own phrase, just correcting one word, to sum it up perfectly.

It really isn't good enough but what I don't understand is why do football fans seem to accept it? That's the most disappointing thing.

One of the conclusions that I've come to this weekend, especially following the Newcastle takeover, is that perhaps the only way to have any chance of surviving is to indeed have a tonne of cash. 

I mean, I like the idea of elements of the model - developing youth players should be applauded.  But when your model relies on then selling those players when they want out and trying to fill those gaps, you can't build a team that's going to go anywhere.  I thought we'd underestimate the impact of losing Buendia this season but I didn't think it would be this bad.

In a top division that's increasingly dependent on billionaire owners, we just aren't going to ever establish ourselves with a self funding model.  

[alex_ncfc 662]

Absolutely amazed that there are Norwich supporters taking issue with what he has said when he is absolutely spot on. We do have far too many fans who "just accept it". 

But then I suppose the truth hurts doesn't it! 

[BroadstairsR 2,168]

You are correct Branston and the decision for us City fans is whether we accept the self-funding model for what it is or attempt to hound the incumbents out, one way or another.

The former seems to imply constant criticism from the likes of Crooks and humiliation at the hands of the likes of Chelsea. The latter means yo-yoing.

As for not actually "trying to stay" there Crooks is incorrect. We have most certainly tried, but within our means.

Are our critics advocating we spend into debt for the privilege of being amongst the elite? Surely they would frown upon that in the same way as we all view the Derby Countys of the league?

OR, are they advocating that we seek yet another Russian billionaire, moneyed sheik, Chinese consortium or even an American based profiteering outfit to run our club?

The inconsistency of Crooks and all the others is whilst seemingly disapproving of the influence of foreign money in the English game, they cannot wait to wade in against a club refuting this.

There is some confusion there, and it is not really about NCFC is it? This is a more fundamental issue regarding the English game as a whole.

Crooks' superficial and ill-informed views make little sense. 

Perhaps the middle ground is more acceptable. Self-funding, yes. Maybe though it would suit all better if we had less timid, and yes more wealthy owners. Self funding alone and  Premier League survival seem incompatible.

Edited October 25, 2021 by BroadstairsR

[Mullet 293]

30 minutes ago, Normann for Norfolk said:

I’m a Norwich fan of 45 years standing and a long term season holder - a loyal fan. Of course I don’t agree that we’re currently enjoying our time in the PL but there is a grain of truth in these comments from Garth Crooks. We won’t succeed with the current Board/owners because they lack ambition and the ruthless streak that is needed to operate in the PL. I don’t buy the argument that we can’t compete because we don’t have rich owners. I don’t expect us to win the PL or get into Europe but tactical guile, desire, will to win, ambition cost nothing - the Board have wasted numerous opportunities now to establish Norwich as a PL club with their ‘little old Norwich’ attitude. 
 

it’s completely clear now that although Farke has been a great servant of the club, he’s out of his depth at the top level. I predict the Board will stumble on for at least another 10 games with a misguided sense of loyalty, failing to take the ruthless decision that’s need to keep us up.....we desperately need a manager who can inject a bit of desire, fight, confidence before it’s too late. There are 29 games left. 
 

Alas I think Delia and the board will leave it too late as they did with Worthington and Hughton and once their hand is forced Farke’s legacy will trashed and Norwich will be down.

You talk a lot of sense Normann. The club don't take the Premier league seriously, they are too soft when they need to be ruthless, reactive instead of proactive. I have been watching the aftermath of the Man U slaughter by Liverpool and they are suffering a similar plight to us. The players aren't being coached  properly, they don't understand their roles. But the club dither will Ole the same as we dither with DF. Chelsea and Watford should take credit how they do things. The club have expectations and if they are not being met they make changes, simple and effective

[K Lo 224]

Garth Crooks should stick to his Country & Western singing.

[BroadstairsR 2,168]

3 minutes ago, K Lo said:

Garth Crooks should stick to his Country & Western singing.

You'd prefer a Johny Cash then?

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

I mean, Garth Crooks isn't a Norwich fan and its hardly surprising he's spouting without doing some basic research but as a Norwich fan I thought you would have.

His point is invalid. Unless he's going to accuse several other clubs of the same. We spent more than the other two promoted clubs in the Summer. 

Surely it would make more sense to look at net spend over a rolling 3 or 5 year period, rather than one window in isolation.

 

[OnDaBall 137]

Pretty much every time I see Garth on TV, no matter which team he's talking, I always have to remind myself that, yes he was a professional footballer. He's very opinionated, often seems I'll informed and delivers his mantra in a very patronising way.

Our issue this season is not the amount we've spent, but more the business we've done. Sold our most creative player and failed to either replace him, or improve the areas which needed improvement.

[KernowCanary 214]

Just accept it!?, he hasn’t been on here then!.

[Gordon Bennett 783]

He's an awful pundit and always has been.

[City 2nd 191]

6 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

Oh look, another “I told you so” pundit, pretty much saying that the only way to survive is with tonnes of cash, and thinking that’s just fine. Is that what the game has become?

I’ve used his own phrase, just correcting one word, to sum it up perfectly.

It really isn't good enough but what I don't understand is why do football fans seem to accept it? That's the most disappointing thing.

Where have you been? Sky TV have lauded it over every club in the premiership. The money generated makes it the richest league in the world! NCFC do not have the capacity to be affluent members of this regime. So they ‘revert’ to the model! What’s new? NCFC have always been a selling club (ask Chris Sutton) and it will always be so. 

[Jim Smith 2,317]

7 hours ago, hogesar said:

I mean, Garth Crooks isn't a Norwich fan and its hardly surprising he's spouting without doing some basic research but as a Norwich fan I thought you would have.

His point is invalid. Unless he's going to accuse several other clubs of the same. We spent more than the other two promoted clubs in the Summer. Just because they're not in the relegation zone its ok not to invest, apparently. That we may have bought the wrong players would be an argument, but not the one he's making. Probably because he's not bothered to even look who we've signed,  and just assumed the same as 2 years ago.

To be fair in net terms we didn’t spend more. We only spent around £12m net and that’s including Gibson and Dimi. 

[Ken Hairy 3,772]

7 hours ago, sgncfc said:

He seriously thinks we are enjoying this? And he's "disappointed" that we accept it?

I can see why some outsiders hold the views they hold, but Crooks is so out of touch with modern football it is embarrassing. What level of investment would he like us to make in order to "at least try"?

But we do accept it, we always have been too placid as a fan base. There might be plenty of moaning on here but a poor performance on Sunday should see Carrow Rd turn white hot with fans making it known to all and sundry this is not acceptable, but will it? 

Edited October 25, 2021 by Ken Hairy

[A Load of Squit 5,164]

Garth never really got over us sacking his BFF Chris Hughton.

[hogesar 9,673]

4 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

But we do accept it, we always have been too placid as a fan base. There might be plenty of moaning on here but a poor performance on Sunday should see Carrow Rd turn white hot with fans making it known to all and sundry this is not acceptable, but will it? 

I don't buy this placid nonsense. We're not the worst, we're not a self-important Newcastle or West Ham, but we're not the most placid - see the likes of Ipswich who've spent a couple seasons in League One with very little complaint.

The biggest problem people have on here that complain is typically the ownership. On that I agree; they moan on here but never do anything vaguely constructive about it.

[Canaries north 151]

If you Chuck enough stones you will hit the target in the end. This sums up his punditry as well as how I would rather see us play. For the last 3 games our starting line up has been weaker than the team that ended last season. Yes Skipp was not our player and had to go home but everyone was saying we need an out and out defensive midfielder. We got Norman who has been fantastic but is not an out and out defensive midfielder. That leaves us playing 5 at the back in the desperate hope of keeping the score down. Buendia was going no matter what so we signed winger's to replace him who now can't get a game because we have 5 at the back. We have our 2 best players from last season playing for other teams in the premier League and have only £10 milion of our actual signings in seargent getting a start? If you look at the 11 from last year to the last 3 games I would say the team is approximately £40 million weaker in player quality. 

[hogesar 9,673]

31 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

To be fair in net terms we didn’t spend more. We only spent around £12m net and that’s including Gibson and Dimi. 

Not really. If we use TransferMarkt as a source for all clubs, our net spend is closer to £25 million. They have loan fee figures for all clubs, but i'm not including the option to buys.

If we're going for net spent, Watfords was about £6 million.

Brentford were about £33 million.

Burnleys' was less than £20 million net. The season before there net spent was negative. The season before that it was less than £10 million. Why aren't Burnley, currently bottom, being thrown criticism by Garth for not spending?

There's really not much in it, which reinforces my point that Garth Crooks doesn't have a clue what he's talking about, or he'd certainly be labelling Watford and Burnley with even more of the same criticism.

The problem isn't our net spend, overall spend or whatever rubbish being spouted this season. The problem could be the head coach, the problem could be the players signed aren't the right players, it could be a combination of both. 

 

 

[Wardogz 72]

8 hours ago, BarclayWazza said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59031790

Mason Mount: It was good to see Mount back in a Chelsea shirt and among the goals again. However, this wasn't about Mount but Norwich. Six league defeats and two draws out of eight games and Daniel Farke is still there? I said as early as the first game of the season that Norwich were down and it is as much the owners' fault as the manager.

Norwich have made no attempt to avoid what is painfully obvious to me. They are happy to enjoy their time with the Premier League but not prepared to make the investment to at least try to stay there. It's shameful.

It really isn't good enough but what I don't understand is why do Norwich fans seem to accept it? That's the most disappointing thing.

Baffles me as well fella.

 

Mainstream media pundits have zero knowledge of teams outside the top 6, it's painfully obvious. Fan media long ago replaced them.

[Indy 3,300]

12 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Not really. If we use TransferMarkt as a source for all clubs, our net spend is closer to £25 million. They have loan fee figures for all clubs, but i'm not including the option to buys.

If we're going for net spent, Watfords was about £6 million.

Brentford were about £33 million.

Burnleys' was less than £20 million net. The season before there net spent was negative. The season before that it was less than £10 million. Why aren't Burnley, currently bottom, being thrown criticism by Garth for not spending?

There's really not much in it, which reinforces my point that Garth Crooks doesn't have a clue what he's talking about, or he'd certainly be labelling Watford and Burnley with even more of the same criticism.

The problem isn't our net spend, overall spend or whatever rubbish being spouted this season. The problem could be the head coach, the problem could be the players signed aren't the right players, it could be a combination of both. 

 

 

I do agree with the sentiment, we certainly have spent to our maximum and structured our spending to include two very decent players on loan with a view to making them permanent. One thing we can’t criticise the club for is not spending this time round.

I do think we have gone very stale as a club and Farke trying to change our identity, his style after buying players to fit the preferred 4-2-3-1 we’ve always played under him has really not worked and lead to this fair criticism.

I’ve asked on another thread that you can’t lay the blame at Farke, the reality is most of our squad isn’t premiership quality,they weren’t last time up and we have built on the squad each year while selling off the assets to do so. It’s not easy losing your best players and trying to move forwards. So there is a deal of sympathy from me to Farke.

Moving on to the board or owners, I used to be very vocal in my criticism of Delia, I know a few on here have close ties to what happened with Cullum but at the time a couple people I knew let info out and he was heavily criticised for asking for some form of return for offering the £20 million over the four years, yet the current owners in the 24 years haven’t put anywhere near that amount in and yet manoeuvred themselves into a position of total ownership which Watling said shouldn’t ever happen again. But here we are.

So yes of course I can see why some fans are getting fed up with the situation, rightly some might say after 24 years it’s time for new exciting prospects for new ownership, others are happy to be where we are, nothing wrong it’s either view. But if you’re not happy and it starts to effect your mood outside the 90 minutes, I’d suggest that you might need to think, it’s only a football match, it’s just how our club are and accept there’s nothing as supporters we can do but vote with our feet or voices. That’s why I always will never criticise anyone who wishes to boo.

[Badger 2,405]

7 hours ago, alex_ncfc said:

Absolutely amazed that there are Norwich supporters taking issue with what he has said when he is absolutely spot on. We do have far too many fans who "just accept it". 

But then I suppose the truth hurts doesn't it! 

So what have you done to help then?

[hogesar 9,673]

1 minute ago, Indy said:

I do agree with the sentiment, we certainly have spent to our maximum and structured our spending to include two very decent players on loan with a view to making them permanent. One thing we can’t criticise the club for is not spending this time round.

Yep, that's my issue with Garth Crooks misinformed nonsense which then gets treated as gospel by the wider footballing world because no-one can be bothered to do their own research.

If he'd said "well, this time they actually spent money but they're still terrible" then it'd be hard to argue with that, irritatingly. Or if he'd criticised Burnley or Watford for the same, then I could maybe accept it.

This time round we've spent as much as anyone I think could have expected us to.