Vaccine Passports - October 1st

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

9 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

These experts? 

Johnson said he wanted to move away from “government diktat”. But then Whitty offered a three-part rule of thumb for continuing to wear a mask: in crowded indoor spaces; when required to by an authority; or to make someone else feel comfortable.

 

He said these situations were all particularly important at a time when “the epidemic is significant and rising”.

Whitty said: “The first is in any situation is indoors and crowded, or indoors with close proximity to other people. And that is because masks help protect other people.”

He added: “The second situation is if I was required to by any competent authority … And the third reason is if someone else was uncomfortable if I did not wear a mask – as a point of common courtesy.”

The chief scientist, Sir Patrick Vallance, endorsed the approach. He added: “Masks are most effective at preventing somebody else catching the disease from you, and they have some effect to prevent you catching it.”

 

July 5th 2021. Yes those experts. As I said I will take their advice as experts.

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

8 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

You should probably read the article I’ve posted on why they wear them then

I am well read.. I wear a mask on trains etc due to the advice of medical experts. Thanks.

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

20 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

You should probably read the article I’ve posted on why they wear them then

The article you posted is by a quack... Well done.

Anti-vaccine activists are attacking pediatricians head to head on Twitter, Facebook and other social media platforms, and they’re not hesitating to make their attacks personal.

 

A few fed-up doctors are fighting back, both online and, more recently, in the courts.

One pediatrician, Dr. Eve Switzer of Enid, Oklahoma, filed a defamation suit last year against former Oklahoma ophthalmologist Jim Meehan and Oklahomans for Vaccine and Health Choice, saying they publicly and falsely accused her of failing to provide informed consent to parents about vaccinations.

“Anti-vaxxers have gotten out of control,” Switzer told NBC News.

“As a pediatrician, the way that it has affected me personally, my practice and my staff, even, I really felt like I needed to have some sort of remedy and my only remedy was a legal remedy.”

 

[Herman 9,780]

26 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

These experts? 

2 things. At the beginning there wasn't full or strong enough evidence that masks stopped the transmission but as time went on more and more studies were done and evidence was gathered that showed they did help. They're not 100% safe but they could be used in a range of measures to stop the spread.And secondly I'm sure that a serious lack of PPE stock also helped inform policy and decision making.

[crispeduk 282]

Have almost been wishing for more white pages – myself I’m not really interested in winning unwinnable medical and ideological arguments on a football forum though don’t dispute anyone’s right to give it a go and be listened to.

I respect others’ views but I have no intention, like many others, of setting foot in any stadium where intelligent precautions against possible bad outcomes are not taken. If others want to, well that's their choice.

As football is a business, clubs, with or without Government diktat, need to decide if the cautious are in the majority or not before they set their stall out - so I expect to be back at football soon enough.

Until then I’ll continue helping to protect my family, especially as they are not all fully vaccinated - crazily the partially protected are the ones who have to go out to work.

I have many doubts about what we are told on both sides of the argument, but I think I’ll play it safe thanks.

And let’s stick it up Liverpool, with or without a full house. OTBC

[Matt Juler 153]

3 hours ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Are you saying that various government bodies around the world, are being negligent and not following proper procedure before allowing the entire population to take these various vaccinations?

Governments have decided to use something that the FDA in the USA call an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA). This allows a medication to be used before fully approved. Typically this type of EUA is used for people that are gravely ill, such as cancer patients where all other known options haven't worked. I'm not aware of an EUA ever being used for a vaccine prior to Covid, however I can understand why the approach has been used to fast track for the most vulnerable. Whether an EUA should be used to vaccinate the full global population is a contentious point for many working in the pharmaceutical industry. 

[Virtual reality 712]

7 hours ago, Kenny Foggo said:

The article you posted is by a quack... Well done.

Anti-vaccine activists are attacking pediatricians head to head on Twitter, Facebook and other social media platforms, and they’re not hesitating to make their attacks personal.

 

A few fed-up doctors are fighting back, both online and, more recently, in the courts.

One pediatrician, Dr. Eve Switzer of Enid, Oklahoma, filed a defamation suit last year against former Oklahoma ophthalmologist Jim Meehan and Oklahomans for Vaccine and Health Choice, saying they publicly and falsely accused her of failing to provide informed consent to parents about vaccinations.

“Anti-vaxxers have gotten out of control,” Switzer told NBC News.

“As a pediatrician, the way that it has affected me personally, my practice and my staff, even, I really felt like I needed to have some sort of remedy and my only remedy was a legal remedy.”

 

I posted an article by a surgeon that explains why they wear masks. Everything you’ve put hear about “anti vaxers” has no relevance to that

Edited July 28, 2021 by Virtual reality

[Terminally Yellow 2,461]

19 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

I posted an article by a surgeon that explains why they wear masks. Everything you’ve put hear about “anti vaxers” has no relevance to that

Is he a tree surgeon? I mean you don't have a great grasp on English ("put hear") let alone medical evidence about masks, so wouldn't surprise me if you've actually not read anything what's been posted and taken it straight from Facebook. 

I mean here's an idea. Why don't all you anti Vax, anti mask, coronavirus deniers (or any part therein) **** off back to Facebook, and the rest of us get back to talking about football? 

[Nuff Said 5,146]

10 hours ago, Coneys Knee said:

I accept I may be wrong,  but this is my belief.
 

If I’m really honest I stopped wearing a mask when I could because, I honestly believe they could be increasing risk. Watch people who wear them. You’ll see a great many that are filthy for one thing. Those people then fidget with those masks all the time, constantly readjusting them or playing with them. All that lovely moist maskiness is then on their fingers which then goes on door handles etc etc. Far safer in my opinion to observe social distancing but be mask free. I could be completely deluded heee but that’s how I see it I’m afraid.

 

[Virtual reality 712]

39 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

Is he a tree surgeon? I mean you don't have a great grasp on English ("put hear") let alone medical evidence about masks, so wouldn't surprise me if you've actually not read anything what's been posted and taken it straight from Facebook. 

I mean here's an idea. Why don't all you anti Vax, anti mask, coronavirus deniers (or any part therein) **** off back to Facebook, and the rest of us get back to talking about football? 

Are you an idiot? Maybe read through my posts and then come back and apologise. I’ll wait. It’s also not law that you have to wear them now. If you continue to then that’s your choice. Others are free to choose not to 

Edited July 28, 2021 by Virtual reality

[BroadstairsR 2,179]

48 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

Are you an idiot? Maybe read through my posts and then come back and apologise. I’ll wait. It’s also not law that you have to wear them now. If you continue to then that’s your choice. Others are free to choose not to 

I read it (the surgeon reference,) and thought it raised some interesting points, especially about the public's misuse of surgical masks by overuse and bad practise.

I shall continue to wear my (clean) mask in a public place as I believe they are of some value.

Situations vary and nobody has ever claimed that mask-wearing is anything more than at least some precaution against the spread of a virus.

I have stated before that, in parts of the Far East, it is considered polite and necessary to don a mask in public at the slightest sign of any cold/flu-like illness, to say nothing of them being some defence against traffic pollution in busy cities.  

Vaccine passports is a difficult one and seem a clumsy precaution, not least because vaccines are not considered totally effective, either as a precaution against catching the disease and/or just spreading it. Also, it would be unfair on those unable to be vaccinated for medical reasons. Whether it is an infringement upon "liberty" is another matter .... Macron seems to think not, and it seems our lot are moving that way too.

Perhaps more efficient testing will evolve. There have been many solutions put forward. Was it the Norwegians or Swedes who extolled the virtue of sniffer dogs? What happened to that idea?

Temperature checks are of some use and were, after all, the first precaution against SARS 1 at airports.

 

Edited July 28, 2021 by BroadstairsR

[Virtual reality 712]

8 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

I read it (the surgeon reference,) and thought it raised some interesting points, especially about the public's misuse of surgical masks by overuse and bad practise.

I shall continue to wear my (clean) mask in a public place as I believe they are of some value.

Situations vary and nobody has ever claimed that mask-wearing is anything less than at least some precaution against the spread of a virus.

I have stated before that, in parts of the Far East, it is considered polite and necessary to don a mask in public at the slightest sign of any cold/flu-like illness, to say nothing of them being some defence against traffic pollution in busy cities.  

Exactly. 

[Mello Yello 2,296]

The legal profession and its lovely lawyers within, are no doubt at this moment in time warming up for a pay day beyond their wildest dreams.....

[BroadstairsR 2,179]

3 minutes ago, Mello Yello said:

The legal profession and its lovely lawyers within, are no doubt at this moment in time warming up for a pay day beyond their wildest dreams.....

Every day is a pay day for that bunch. There's always something for them to boost their bank accounts with.

Edited July 28, 2021 by BroadstairsR

[Mello Yello 2,296]

Just now, BroadstairsR said:

Every day is a pay day for them. There's always something for them to boost their bank accounts with.

Oh yeah......Licence to print.....

[Terminally Yellow 2,461]

41 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

Are you an idiot? Blah blah blah I'm an absolute moron and a ****ing idiot blah blah blah no one actually reads my posts because they're so stupid.

Go back to virtual reality, virtual reality and leave actual reality to those of us who don't get their information exclusively from Katie Hopkins and your dodgy mate you barely know off Facebook.

[ncfcstar 292]

11 hours ago, Matt Juler said:

Phase 1 - Initial safety with very small cohorts (often around 16 people per study) 

Phase 2 - Larger cohorts (about 40 per study), looking at efficacy whilst continuing to check the safety. 

Phase 3 - large scale (300ish per study) that in a vaccine trial looks at efficacy over time (antibody levels) and long term safety profile. Typically 2 to 3 years, hence the 2023 date that is often quoted. 

Each product would typically have 10 to 15 studies across the phases, looking at different populations (ethnicities, underlying conditions, etc.). 

This is the sort of rubbish that encourages vaccine hesitancy as well, all of the vaccines have been through each trial phase, and they weren't rushed, they received all of the data they needed to ensure the vaccine is completely safe (aside from known side affects before anyone starts bringing that up; and if you are worried about them then you'd never take another paracetamol again).

Funnily enough the scientists who have developed the vaccines have been prepared for an event like COVID for years.  The two women who created the AZ vaccine were testing a vaccine for COVID by the end of March last year because they were so prepared.

[Virtual reality 712]

14 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

Go back to virtual reality, virtual reality and leave actual reality to those of us who don't get their information exclusively from Katie Hopkins and your dodgy mate you barely know off Facebook.

So yes you are an idiot…

[Terminally Yellow 2,461]

2 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

So yes you are an idiot…

No mate I'm not. I'm not going around hawking an article from a random American website rather than a respected medical journal by a doctor being sued by other doctors and who was laughed out of an Oklahoma state committee meeting for pedaling conspiracy theories with no basis. 

What you're pedaling is absolute ****. Which makes you a ****ing fool.

[Virtual reality 712]

33 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

No mate I'm not. I'm not going around hawking an article from a random American website rather than a respected medical journal by a doctor being sued by other doctors and who was laughed out of an Oklahoma state committee meeting for pedaling conspiracy theories with no basis. 

What you're pedaling is absolute ****. Which makes you a ****ing fool.

So you disagree with the reasons given in the article about why those in hospitals wear masks? Which is what this conversation was about before you jumped in giving it your billy big **** from behind a keyboard. Which you would have known if you read back through the thread

Edited July 28, 2021 by Virtual reality

[Terminally Yellow 2,461]

13 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

So you disagree with the reasons given in the article about why those in hospitals wear masks? Which is what this conversation was about before you jumped in giving it your billy big **** from behind a keyboard. Which you would have known if you read back through the thread

I fundamentally disagree with the pedalling as fact of an opinion piece by a supremely discredited source who has a clear agenda. 

You are nothing but a gullible lunatic who is a danger to people by passing this stuff around. 

Now do **** off and stop wasting my time.

[Virtual reality 712]

3 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

I fundamentally disagree with the pedalling as fact of an opinion piece by a supremely discredited source who has a clear agenda. 

You are nothing but a gullible lunatic who is a danger to people by passing this stuff around. 

Now do **** off and stop wasting my time.

You really are a piece of work. Discredited or not, that doesn’t change the reasons given as to why they wear masks and why bad mask hygiene can be detrimental, which is what the conversation was about before you played keyboard warrior. If you haven’t noticed, masks are now optional. You can choose to carry on wearing them. Don’t expect others to make that same choice

Edited July 28, 2021 by Virtual reality

[cornish sam 954]

57 minutes ago, ncfcstar said:

This is the sort of rubbish that encourages vaccine hesitancy as well, all of the vaccines have been through each trial phase, and they weren't rushed, they received all of the data they needed to ensure the vaccine is completely safe (aside from known side affects before anyone starts bringing that up; and if you are worried about them then you'd never take another paracetamol again).

Funnily enough the scientists who have developed the vaccines have been prepared for an event like COVID for years.  The two women who created the AZ vaccine were testing a vaccine for COVID by the end of March last year because they were so prepared.

That is exactly the sort of rubbish that outlines what happens whneever a new drug is brought to market. Just because a drug is for Maleria doesn't mean it shouldn't go through the same rigor as if it is for Erectile Disfunction. We have allowed the pharma companies to short circuit the process to a large extent for Covid due to parellel trials around the world and the need to get something out ASAP, that doesn't mean that the proper trials should not also continue in the background just to prove that it is doing what we are fairly certain it is whilst not doing anything that we haven't spotted due to a lack of controled studies.

As you may have noticed I am firmly against anti-vaxers and vaccine hesitency, but that doesn't mean we should totally ignore the scientific method.  From memory Matt Juler actually works in this field so we shold respect what he says on 'this sort of rubbish'.

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

Matt (who I known and is a very nice chap) may work in the field but as stated, I will follow the advice of world renowned scientists and take the booster jab, my flu jab and any other jab the scientific and medical profession say I should, that will improve my quality of life. I will not listen to quacks, anti Vaxer's, Covid deniers or Facebook warriors. Just the the people who have spent all their lives doing this... I will wear masks in crowded areas because I like to be considerate to my fellow human beings and it is proven to help reduce the spread. Those that choose not to follow advice or refuse to wear a mask when asked to by the establishment they are entering, don't whine and moan when you are rightly barred.

Boring....

[Virtual reality 712]

10 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Matt (who I known and is a very nice chap) may work in the field but as stated, I will follow the advice of world renowned scientists and take the booster jab, my flu jab and any other jab the scientific and medical profession say I should, that will improve my quality of life. I will not listen to quacks, anti Vaxer's, Covid deniers or Facebook warriors. Just the the people who have spent all their lives doing this... I will wear masks in crowded areas because I like to be considerate to my fellow human beings and it is proven to help reduce the spread. Those that choose not to follow advice or refuse to wear a mask when asked to by the establishment they are entering, don't whine and moan when you are rightly barred.

Boring....

No one is getting barred from anywhere for not wearing a mask. It’s personal choice not a legal requirement 

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

1 minute ago, Virtual reality said:

No one is getting barred from anywhere for not wearing a mask. It’s personal choice not a legal requirement 

If shops etc decide customers have to wear a mask then they can bar those who don't, on health and safety grounds, a maskless person being a potential danger to the staff and other customers. It doesn't have to be a national legal requirement.

[Greavsy 2,415]

41 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

If shops etc decide customers have to wear a mask then they can bar those who don't, on health and safety grounds, a maskless person being a potential danger to the staff and other customers. It doesn't have to be a national legal requirement.

I got an email fromm tescos ceo saying their staff are to continue to wear masks and customers should too. 

It's not law, but it's their sensible rules. Happy to abide to keep others and my self safe. 😷 

[sgncfc 1,228]

18 hours ago, Matt Morriss said:

Sgncfc look it up. I just have again and found this:

"A total of 17 cases of genetically confirmed COVID-19 reinfection were found."

I suggest that the people you know either had the flu, back then, recently, or whats more likely is that the positive tests are garbage, given that we know the PCR tests are done at 45 cycles, theres a report on a testing centre where there just checking the tests in the bin and sending out 'negative' sms's, and the CDC has just announced the PCR test is rubbish and to be stopped end of this year.

Do you honestly believe that the PCR tests are 100% accurate? Even the inventor Kary Mullis said there werent to be used to detect coronaviruses!

 

This is what conspiracy theorists do. They take a given fact and don't read the whole piece, just assume that they can conclude what it means in order to put out garbage and look smart. Because clearly you're smarter than the thousands of scientists around the world who have dedicated their lives to helping a government or the lizards or Bill Gates or China or whoever else you think wants us all dead or incapable of independent thought or whatever. The alternative of course being that people die from a virus we can do something about.

The CDC have given notice that from December 31st the existing PCR testing regime will be enhanced by in vitro testing but at the moment that is not available and is itself still undergoing testing for accuracy. The new tests will be between 98-100% accurate on both symptomatic and asymptomatic cases. This compares with 92 - 98% accuracy for the current PCR test.

Do YOUR research. I'll help. Read this EUA withdrawal for CDC COVID-19 PCR test is due to the development of newer tests that help save time and resources, not because the test is faulty - Health Feedback

I'm glad though that people who hold views like yours are given a platform to evidence just how ridiculous your views are.

 

[FenwayFrank 2,459]

1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

If shops etc decide customers have to wear a mask then they can bar those who don't, on health and safety grounds, a maskless person being a potential danger to the staff and other customers. It doesn't have to be a national legal requirement.

Sorry purple bit it’s not that easy to implement, people that work in supermarkets already get enough grief ! 😁.  Would you want to stand in a doorway and tell someone they can’t come in even though they’re not breaking any laws ? 

[Midlands Yellow 3,995]

4 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

I fundamentally disagree with the pedalling as fact of an opinion piece by a supremely discredited source who has a clear agenda. 

You are nothing but a gullible lunatic who is a danger to people by passing this stuff around. 

Now do **** off and stop wasting my time.

Have you tried anger management courses?