Vaccine Passports - October 1st

[Matt Morriss 69]

16 minutes ago, Greavsy said:

Sympathy for you condition. 

I got annoyed when I see people not wearing masks, and I'm sure alot stretched the fact. A simple badge (or the lanyard) showing exemption status is fine. 

What really peeved me was people with a mask but under their chin. No point in that. 

This is your problem Greavsy. No research done.

Masks are and were useless and did nothing to affect the spread of Covid.

Look at Texas, Florida and Sweden.

Look at California and compare to Florida. One mandated masks, the other didnt. Near identical results.

You cannot stop Covid. It is an unstoppable virus. 

[lake district canary 4,531]

10 minutes ago, Matt Morriss said:

Masks are useless and have done nothing to affect the spread of Covid. 

Here is some evidence that shows you are wrong -

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-what-does-the-science-actually-say-about-face-masks-12349337

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by lake district canary

[Matt Morriss 69]

19 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

1. You have already said you have not been officially diagnosed with Covid. 

2. You have that choice.  Medicine keeps me healthy and working.

3. Past history and I have many issues with the pharmaceutical industry. Oxford university is not a big industry. Totally different.

4. I believe Chris Whitty, Van Tam, sage over vax deniers everyday of the year. Vaccinations have saved millions of lives.

5. You should speak to your doctor. If he says you should not take the vaccination you will be exempt.

6. Utter bxllocks! Please show me the evidence for 20'000 vaccination deaths UK report between 4 and 6! If you can't stop spreading lies.

7. This vaccination is probably one of the safest ever made.. biggest trials, most money spent on it's production, no symptoms arising in the population despite the biggest uptake ever. It's saving thousands of lives. 

It's your choice but don't whine if the choice of the vast majority is for checks to be put in place to make us feel safe and protected from those that could spread it (you don't know you have had it). 

Ps February 2020 I came back from Spain and had the worst chest infection (difficulty breathing etc).. it could have been covid... I still took the vaccinations as I am not a doctor.

Ps this is a football site..I am sure there are lots of other "sites" to allow you to expand your theories and discuss the xxxx Germany comparisons.

"6. Utter bxllocks! Please show me the evidence for 20'000 vaccination deaths UK report between 4 and 6! If you can't stop spreading lies. "

I never specified UK. I am referring to worldwide. 

[Coneys Knee 959]

3 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Here is some evidence that shows you are wrong -

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-what-does-the-science-actually-say-about-face-masks-12349337

 

I’m sorry but I could’ve written that. That’s poor.

[Matt Morriss 69]

8 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Go on then, show your evidence.

 

California, Texas, Florida, Sweden. 

[cornish sam 954]

3 minutes ago, Matt Morriss said:

"6. Utter bxllocks! Please show me the evidence for 20'000 vaccination deaths UK report between 4 and 6! If you can't stop spreading lies. "

I never specified UK. I am referring to worldwide. 

You're still avoiding my question about flying. 

Can you answer this one then, can you show evidence of this? And even if this figure is accurate and the deaths can be directly attributable to A vaccine (not necessarily the ones we are giving here) that is still a far, far, far lower risk than getting reinfected.

[Matt Morriss 69]

10 minutes ago, Herman said:

What about Sweden and Florida?

No mask mandate? Sweden's Covid rates have thru the floor for months. 

Texas and Florida no mask mandate, California mandatory masks. Identical Covid rates. 

Do you people honestly not know this?

As I suspect you get all your info from Boris, BBC and Dr Hilary.

[Herman 9,768]

6 minutes ago, Coneys Knee said:

I accept I may be wrong,  but this is my belief.
 

If I’m really honest I stopped wearing a mask when I could because, I honestly believe they could be increasing risk. Watch people who wear them. You’ll see a great many that are filthy for one thing. Those people then fidget with those masks all the time, constantly readjusting them or playing with them. All that lovely moist maskiness is then on their fingers which then goes on door handles etc etc. Far safer in my opinion to observe social distancing but be mask free. I could be completely deluded heee but that’s how I see it I’m afraid.

I agree with you that our mask hygiene is bad, I include myself in that, but I wouldn't use it as a reason to stop wearing masks in busy places. We just need to up our game and start cleaning and acting a lot more hygienically.

[Matt Morriss 69]

1 minute ago, cornish sam said:

You're still avoiding my question about flying. 

Can you answer this one then, can you show evidence of this? And even if this figure is accurate and the deaths can be directly attributable to A vaccine (not necessarily the ones we are giving here) that is still a far, far, far lower risk than getting reinfected.

im not avoiding it, just done with replying to you.

Yes, i have done one long haul flight since and I took plenty of precautions. 

[Matt Morriss 69]

Signing off from this thread as wasted far too much time today on it and done no work.

Wont be replying to anymore.

Enjoyable debate. Good night all. 

[Coneys Knee 959]

2 minutes ago, Matt Morriss said:

Signing off from this thread as wasted far too much time today on it and done no work.

Wont be replying to anymore.

Enjoyable debate. Good night all. 

Mr Morris has a vaccine appointment to catch clearly! Lolz

[cornish sam 954]

 

1 minute ago, Matt Morriss said:

im not avoiding it, just done with replying to you.

Yes, i have done one long haul flight since and I took plenty of precautions. 

Thank you. So you've exposed yourself to twice the risk of getting the vaccine for purely your own (or maybe your families) benefit then as I would assume you flew back as well. 

 

I know that I'm not going to change your mind, you have made your decision and you will not be swayed from it. The danger is that other people who are yet to make their decision are exposed to misinformation or hypocrisy surrounding so called "facts" and then provide more environments for the virus to spread and mutate.

[lake district canary 4,531]

11 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

http://inlandnwreport.com/2020/11/18/if-masks-dont-work-then-why-do-surgeons-wear-them/

A response to people who use the classic fallacious argument, “Well, if masks don’t work, then why do surgeons wear them?”

I’m a surgeon that has performed over 10,000 surgical procedures wearing a surgical mask. However, that fact alone doesn’t really qualify me as an expert on the matter. More importantly, I am a former editor of a medical journal. I know how to read the medical literature, distinguish good science from bad, and fact from fiction. Believe me, the medical literature is filled with bad fiction masquerading as medical science. It is very easy to be deceived by bad science.

Since the beginning of the pandemic I’ve read hundreds of studies on the science of medical masks. Based on extensive review and analysis, there is no question in my mind that healthy people should not be wearing surgical or cloth masks. Nor should we be recommending universal masking of all members of the population. That recommendation is not supported by the highest level of scientific evidence.

First, let’s be clear. The premise that surgeons wearing masks serves as evidence that “masks must work to prevent viral transmission” is a logical fallacy that I would classify as an argument of false equivalence, or comparing “apples to oranges.”

Although surgeons do wear masks to prevent their respiratory droplets from contaminating the surgical field and the exposed internal tissues of our surgical patients, that is about as far as the analogy extends. Obviously, surgeons cannot “socially distance” from their surgical patients (unless we use robotic surgical devices, in which case, I would definitely not wear a mask).

The CoVID-19 pandemic is about viral transmission. Surgical and cloth masks do nothing to prevent viral transmission. We should all realize by now that face masks have never been shown to prevent or protect against viral transmission. Which is exactly why they have never been recommended for use during the seasonal flu outbreak, epidemics, or previous pandemics.

The failure of the scientific literature to support medical masks for influenza and all other viruses, is also why Fauci, the US Surgeon General, the CDC, WHO, and pretty much every infectious disease expert stated that wearing masks won’t prevent transmission of SARS CoV-2. Although the public health “authorities” flipped, flopped, and later changed their recommendations, the science did not change, nor did new science appear that supported the wearing of masks in public. In fact, the most recent systemic analysis once again confirms that masks are ineffective in preventing the transmission of viruses like CoVID-19. See:   Nonpharmaceutical Measures for Pandemic Influenza in Nonhealthcare Settings—Personal Protective and Environmental Measures

If a surgeon were sick, especially with a viral infection, they would not perform surgery as they know the virus would NOT be stopped by their surgical mask.

Another area of “false equivalence” has to do with the environment in which the masks are worn. The environments in which surgeons wear masks minimize the adverse effects surgical masks have on their wearers.

Unlike the public wearing masks in the community, surgeons work in sterile surgical suites equipped with heavy duty air exchange systems that maintain positive pressures, exchange and filter the room air at a very high level, and increase the oxygen content of the room air. These conditions limit the negative effects of masks on the surgeon and operating room staff. And yet despite these extreme climate control conditions, clinical studies demonstrate the negative effects (lowering arterial oxygen and carbon dioxide re-breathing) of surgical masks on surgeon physiology and performance.

Surgeons and operating room personnel are well trained, experienced, and meticulous about maintaining sterility. We only wear fresh sterile masks. We don the mask in a sterile fashion. We wear the mask for short periods of time and change it out at the first signs of the excessive moisture build up that we know degrades mask effectiveness and increases their negative effects. Surgeons NEVER re-use surgical masks, nor do we ever wear cloth masks.

The public is being told to wear masks for which they have not been trained in the proper techniques. As a result, they are mishandling, frequently touching, and constantly reusing masks in a way that increase contamination and are more likely than not to increase transmission of disease.

Just go watch people at the grocery story or Walmart and tell me what you think about the effectiveness of masks in the community.

If you can’t help but believe and trust the weak retrospective observational studies and confused public health “authorities” lying to you about the benefits and completely ignoring the risks of medical masks, then you should at least reject the illogical anti-science recommendation to block only 2 of the 3 ports of entry for viral diseases. Masks only cover the mouth and nose. They do not protect the eyes.

 

A load of stuff about how doctors and nurses use masks and all good and scientific. However, the rest - about what the public do - is just guesswork and anecdotal......oh and I see the article is taken from a conspiracy theory biased site too.

[Virtual reality 709]

Just now, lake district canary said:

 

A load of stuff about how doctors and nurses use masks and all good and scientific. However, the rest - about what the public do - is just guesswork and anecdotal......oh and I see the article is taken from a conspiracy theory biased site too.

Found it interesting myself but each to their own…

[lake district canary 4,531]

10 minutes ago, Matt Morriss said:

No mask mandate? Sweden's Covid rates have thru the floor for months. 

Texas and Florida no mask mandate, California mandatory masks. Identical Covid rates. 

Do you people honestly not know this?

As I suspect you get all your info from Boris, BBC and Dr Hilary.

It's too simplistic and too many variables to compare - and unscientific.

[Greavsy 2,415]

8 minutes ago, Matt Morriss said:

Signing off from this thread as wasted far too much time today on it and done no work.

Wont be replying to anymore.

Enjoyable debate. Good night all. 

Wont be missed! 

[TIL 1010 4,748]

2 minutes ago, Greavsy said:

Wont be missed! 

You should have read his Podcasts back in the day,

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

10 minutes ago, Matt Morriss said:

Signing off from this thread as wasted far too much time today on it and done no work.

Wont be replying to anymore.

Enjoyable debate. Good night all. 

Ah well, at least you've realised your time has been wasted. That's something, I guess.

[Greavsy 2,415]

1 minute ago, TIL 1010 said:

You should have read his Podcasts back in the day,

Showing your age there Tilly! 

[lake district canary 4,531]

2 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

3 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

 

A load of stuff about how doctors and nurses use masks and all good and scientific. However, the rest - about what the public do - is just guesswork and anecdotal......oh and I see the article is taken from a conspiracy theory biased site too.

Found it interesting myself but each to their own…

It's interesting, but as someone who is sceptical about anything I see written down either in a newspaper or on the internet, I try to see through the bias that inevitably goes with it. That makes it difficult to decide what the truth is in many different situations, but in this case, on the surface it all looks well and good, but delve a little deeper, apart from what the doctor says he does in his work, the rest is just anectdotal.

[Ken Hairy 3,773]

1 hour ago, Matt Morriss said:

Why do you presume that I am scared Ken?

These are my reasons for not taking the vaccine, and being scared isnt one of them.

1. I've already had Covid so I dont need a vaccine

2. I do not partake in pharmaceutical intervention for illnesses, nor will I ever become dependant on prescription medication like most

3. I do not trust an industry invented by the Rockefellers to erase natural medicine and enslave mankind with pharmaceutical drugs as the only cure of disease, which has also had been fined billions and billions of dollars for malpractice 

4. I also do not trust a single word any Govt or Govt appointed person has to say with regards to my health. I do not believe the Govt and Big Pharma give a single sh&t whether I live or die or not

5. Due to my medical history of previously having a Pulmonary Embolism on my lung (blood clot) and given the numerous reports of blood clots following the vaccine, to the point that some countries banned the AZ jab due to blood clot fears, along with prior Covid infection, I see no point in taking the risk on a vaccine I do not need, but that could potentially cause me harm, for something 99.7% wont die from

6. The 20,000 vaccine deaths and 2million adverse reactions, that are all put down as purely coincidental and not vaccine related, is enough for me to question whether Boris, Hancock and Big Pharma really have my best interests at heart.

7. I do not believe that for a virus that 99.7% of people WILL NOT DIE FROM, that a vaccine with no long term side effects studies done, is necessary. Especially for someone like myself who has already had Covid.

I think thats enough reasons.

 

Of course you're scared, fair enough if you are, but you're definitely scared. Anyone that refuses it on made up reasons that aren't medical reasons are scared of it. That's fine but you're only lieing to yourself. 

I actually don't care if people like you take it or not, I've taken it, my family have (barring the idiot brother of course) that's all I'm bothered about, similarly I don't give a tuppeny toss if people like you are barred from doing things moving forward, and having to scan a QR code to get into events bothers me not one jot.

[Virtual reality 709]

10 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

It's interesting, but as someone who is sceptical about anything I see written down either in a newspaper or on the internet, I try to see through the bias that inevitably goes with it. That makes it difficult to decide what the truth is in many different situations, but in this case, on the surface it all looks well and good, but delve a little deeper, apart from what the doctor says he does in his work, the rest is just anectdotal.

I agree. But I posted the article in response to a person who was using the why do doctors and nurses wear masks if they don’t work line. This article explains that very well in my opinion and also backs up what our experts were telling us at the beginning on masks, that the public are not capable of using them properly and being hygienic 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Virtual reality

[Norfolk Dan 308]

For me this is really simple. What is the law? Vaccination is free choice in the law of this country. 

So all the arguments are simply a.moral one. If your morals or values are not one of acceptance and tolerance, and you demand to deny people anything at all that is not backed by law in a democratic country, then those freedoms and free choice that the law allows come first over your desire to deny anyone of anything. 

The clever bit about this is your government knows this and does.not mandate vaccination and chooses to allow you to divide yourselves, thus easier for them to keep the power. This is really what is going on....  

Edited July 27, 2021 by Norfolk Dan
Typo

[lake district canary 4,531]

17 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

I agree. But I posted the article in response to a person who was using the why do doctors and nurses wear masks if they don’t work line. This article explains that very well in my opinion and also backs up what our experts were telling us at the beginning on masks, that the public are not capable of using them properly and being hygienic 

Yes, I understand, but it is a generalisation to say that all members of the public are incapable of using masks properly. Some plainly do not use them well, you only have to watch people and how some of them touch them and fiddle with them....or know there are those that use the same mask over and over. But  equally there will be many who do understand that they have to be hygenic with their mask use.  It's all pretty much unmeasurable, which is why I take some of these expert views with a pinch of salt - they are often biased and full of generalisation - in this case a doctor pontificating about how clinical use of masks is in a hospital situation then rather stating the obvious that the public can't do the same......but the truth is that many people try to do the best they can to be hygenic. Others not so, but that is bound to be the case.

Masks help keep the virus down, they don't stop it, they may only slow it down a little, but by wearing a mask, that little may save someone else's life.

Edited July 27, 2021 by lake district canary

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

54 minutes ago, Matt Morriss said:

"6. Utter bxllocks! Please show me the evidence for 20'000 vaccination deaths UK report between 4 and 6! If you can't stop spreading lies. "

I never specified UK. I am referring to worldwide. 

Still utter tripe.. no factual evidence of that at all. Provide it or apologize for lying.

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

25 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

I agree. But I posted the article in response to a person who was using the why do doctors and nurses wear masks if they don’t work line. This article explains that very well in my opinion and also backs up what our experts were telling us at the beginning on masks, that the public are not capable of using them properly and being hygienic 

I'll take advice of the medical experts and sage thanks... Plenty of evidence that masks help. You just chose to ignore it 

The vast majority of people I see wear masks very effectively.

Ps you can buy very effective masks online. I wear them all the time on trains etc. I wear them because nurses and doctors do... 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Kenny Foggo

[Virtual reality 709]

2 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

I'll take advice of the medical experts and sage thanks... Plenty of evidence that masks help. You just chose to ignore it 

The vast majority of people I see wear masks very effectively.

These experts? 

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

5 hours ago, Naturalcynic said:

It makes me think that it was and still is an excellent idea.  

I agree, provided they don't go as far as fingerprinting. A pocket-sized identity card that fits in a wallet would be a very useful thing to keep on your person. IIRC much of the debate was about how much data they wanted to fit on it.

Works well in Germany. Otherwise we're taking passports around. Bit clunky.

As for vaccine passports, I don't see a difference between that and needing certain shots before being allowed into certain countries.

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

57 minutes ago, Matt Morriss said:

Signing off from this thread as wasted far too much time today on it and done no work.

Wont be replying to anymore.

Enjoyable debate. Good night all. 

Best news all night.. don't hurry back

[Virtual reality 709]

13 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

I'll take advice of the medical experts and sage thanks... Plenty of evidence that masks help. You just chose to ignore it 

The vast majority of people I see wear masks very effectively.

Ps you can buy very effective masks online. I wear them all the time on trains etc. I wear them because nurses and doctors do... 

You should probably read the article I’ve posted on why they wear them then