Looking for 3 teams worse than us next year

[Crabbycanary3 994]

Whether you dissect the semantics and the inference, it's up to you, but it is a fact, that what the OP talks about is the number 1 priority. It's the way it is

Once we get into the season, those priorities will be more fluid and invite other wishes/dreams (for example, such as finishing 5th from bottom, then 6th from bottom, then 7th from bottom etc) will come into play.

There is no doubt that everyone at the Club (including all supporters) will want to win every game. There will be no obvious negativity. The manager will put a team out to try and win all those games, but if we end up losing one or two, then the goal (come next May) is to have gained more points than at least 3 other teams.

Hopefully it will be a few more teams than 3, but that'll do for a starter! 

[Capt. Pants 4,234]

I'm confident there will be three worse than us. I worry about the physicality thing though. Being good at football is only part of the requirement unfortunately.

[Nuff Said 5,141]

One thing in our favour is that we have at least a week’s lead in recruitment over whoever finishes second and about six weeks over the playoff winner.

Edited April 12, 2021 by Nuff Said

[Icecream Snow 761]

15 hours ago, king canary said:

Think a few of you are underestimating Burnley a bit- I know they lost to a crappy Newcastle side today but if Dyche stays I think they will be fine.

For me Burnley have two issues, the leveraged buyout means they need to take money out of the club on a regular basis to service the debt and they've only paid for half the club so far. Secondly, they're very dependent on the Tarkowski/Mee partnership and I believe Tarkowski's contract is up in 2022, so he may end up engineering a move this summer.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

I'm more worried about our second season syndrome. Our better players will have proved themselves at this level and will be attracting attention from higher up. Same with Webber and Farke. 

[Yellow Fever 3,785]

6 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

I'm confident there will be three worse than us. I worry about the physicality thing though. Being good at football is only part of the requirement unfortunately.

I agree with this. The Huddersfield game was informative. Huddersfield tried to a play us at our own game - playing out from the back, a bit open, passing etc. and got severely punished by a team who could do it better! Of course when we do it right (i.e. vs Man City last year) we are fabulous BUT we need to be really good and creative to do this against teams that set up to stop us - pressing, physically strong and forcing/capitalizing on mistakes. That is what really happened last season. We were 'worked' out and not quite good enough to carry it off most matches.

So are we good enough every Saturday to beat the press next season and/or do we have the plan B steel to win a war of attrition else we may be the Huddersfield.

A creative/fluent 'off' day or even a 95% day as at Derby in the EPL will almost certainly result in a loss.

[Canary Wundaboy 1,359]

I'm pretty confident that the team coming up via the PlayOffs will be favourites to go down, they've all been terribly inconsistent (Barnsley the possible exception but I don't think they'll make it).

[sgncfc 1,228]

It's impossible to forecast at this stage. If you put our current team in the EPL against what is currently there we would probably still finish bottom.

So much will change before we start again in August, at every club.

I think we're all agreed though, that without Skipp (or an adequate replacement) we are going to struggle again.

[Indy 3,300]

It’s always the case that we will have yellow and green tinted as all clubs supporters tend to do. If you look at Farke and our style it’s pretty well suited to premiership football. You never know it might just be the year to be surprised by additional signings and we might just be good enough.

As others said, perfect summer would be to keep all our key players, move on Vrancic, Steipermann and other fringe players, get Skipp back on loan and buy key players to improve our first team.

[......and Smith must score. 1,343]

21 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Cannot abide this attitude of can we find "three teams worse than us".  What is it that gives people such a negative outlook?   How about trying to see how many teams we might be better than next season?  You might find more than three then.........

Isn't that just another way of saying three teams worse than us ?  😀

Edited April 12, 2021 by ......and Smith must score.

[lake district canary 4,531]

2 hours ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

Isn't that just another way of saying three teams worse than us ?  😀

It's the language that gets me - it implies that we're going to be bad but maybe there will be three teams worse.  How bloomin' negative is that?  I would like to see a bit more up and at 'em kind of attitude from us fans - like let's see how high we can get, lets get stuck in and get amongst them and see what we can do. Drives me to distraction that people expect we will be trundling along the bottom of the table struggling to stay up....it may happen, but I certainly don't want to spend the next few months thinking about that! 

 

[DraytonBoy 151]

6 hours ago, lake district canary said:

It's the language that gets me - it implies that we're going to be bad but maybe there will be three teams worse.  How bloomin' negative is that?  I would like to see a bit more up and at 'em kind of attitude from us fans - like let's see how high we can get, lets get stuck in and get amongst them and see what we can do. Drives me to distraction that people expect we will be trundling along the bottom of the table struggling to stay up....it may happen, but I certainly don't want to spend the next few months thinking about that! 

 

The gulf between the PL and the Championship is huge so it's understandable that newly promoted teams often struggle when they go up. I actually think that with certain caveats Norwich have a better chance of staying up next season than last time, player retention and recruitment will determine how easy or hard it will be.  

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

1 hour ago, DraytonBoy said:

The gulf between the PL and the Championship is huge so it's understandable that newly promoted teams often struggle when they go up. I actually think that with certain caveats Norwich have a better chance of staying up next season than last time, player retention and recruitment will determine how easy or hard it will be.  

You've got this sussed haven't you? Hows the root and branch rebuilding of your club going?  Or are all your eggs going in the Bielsa Basket? The Cult of personality is a demanding mistress, I assume( silly, I know) that behind the scenes you are making sure that when, not if, Magic Marcello departs, everything is in place to carry on his good work.

[Crabbycanary3 994]

8 hours ago, lake district canary said:

It's the language that gets me - it implies that we're going to be bad but maybe there will be three teams worse.  How bloomin' negative is that?  I would like to see a bit more up and at 'em kind of attitude from us fans - like let's see how high we can get, lets get stuck in and get amongst them and see what we can do. Drives me to distraction that people expect we will be trundling along the bottom of the table struggling to stay up....it may happen, but I certainly don't want to spend the next few months thinking about that! 

 

See my answer above Lakey! We all start at game one and try to look up from there.

You are a strange one at times . (Paraphrasing) you don't get wrapped up in the excitement of the 'now' and play that down, yet you get more excited/positive about the future. Live for now and enjoy the moment

[king canary 7,607]

In an unexpected twist I slightly agree with LDC- the language in the thread title did raise my eyebrow as it seemed to suggest we'd be crap but we needed others to be worse. Semantics maybe but still...

However where me and Lakey differ is I realise that going into the season aiming to be better than 3 other teams isn't negative, its sensible. 

[lake district canary 4,531]

1 hour ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

See my answer above Lakey! We all start at game one and try to look up from there.

You are a strange one at times . (Paraphrasing) you don't get wrapped up in the excitement of the 'now' and play that down, yet you get more excited/positive about the future. Live for now and enjoy the moment

My musings about the future are usually in opposition to those that err towards the negative side. It's not that I'm overly positive about the football, it's more that I don't agree with people assuming negative stuff before it's happened. The future is not written, it's for the team to write the future and that could be anything from bottom of the league to the top of the league. I know we could have an awful season and finish bottom, but because it is football and it is us under Farke, I know our football at it's best can compete with anyone. 

So top? Why not?  Stranger things have happened and it's about time a lesser club did something spectacular in the PL.  That's not to say we will do it, but the expectation of trundling along  near the bottom of the table for me is not something I will entertain either. We will see what will happen, but negativity about next season is a tad premature. For me, if there is any excitement in thinking about the future it is that we don't really know what will happen either way. One thing for me though is certain - we have a stronger set up now than we did last time.

[BroadstairsR 2,168]

It's impossible to be either negative or positive with any conviction until we see what evolves during the Summer window.

The set-up is there, experience has been gained, but the wheeling-dealing will be vital.

If we lose nobody (unlikely) and if we do some selective strengthening then I would fancy our chances of a decent season, but there are too many "ifs" at the moment. 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,821]

1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

I know we could have an awful season and finish bottom, but because it is football and it is us under Farke, I know our football at it's best can compete with anyone. 

So top? Why not?  Stranger things have happened 

I don't think they have, to be fair.

I agree with your points about negativity as the title is worded in a very pessimistic manner, but as @king canary says, aiming for 17th is the pragmatic approach. The aim should be to achieve as many points as possible, but in the grand scheme of things, 17th would be a successful season.

[hertfordyellow 460]

I'm surprised Crystal Palace haven't been mentioned more. They have a huge turnover of players coming this summer and I'm not sure Hodgson would want to be around for that. They are losing 10 first team players on frees as it stands.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/crystal-palace/vertragsende/verein/873

[DraytonBoy 151]

3 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

You've got this sussed haven't you? Hows the root and branch rebuilding of your club going?  Or are all your eggs going in the Bielsa Basket? The Cult of personality is a demanding mistress, I assume( silly, I know) that behind the scenes you are making sure that when, not if, Magic Marcello departs, everything is in place to carry on his good work.

There has been a complete transformation at Leeds since 2017 both on and off the pitch but that a lot of that has gone unnoticed with most of the focus being on the appointment of Bielsa, the club is now structurally and financially sound and no longer needs to sell players to make ends meet. The owners are also fully aware that Bielsa will be gone soon so have a plan in place for the future but thanks for your concern. 😉

[BroadstairsR 2,168]

"Concern for" and "Leeds United" is a contradiction of terms Drayton. They are not liked.

Perhaps memories of past hooliganism linger (my harmless old man was 'attacked' by a yob one time. He was very shaken.)

Perhaps it's Don Revie's excellent but cynical team(s) that are recalled.

However with their size, support and history the Premier League is the rightful place for Leeds.

[Haus 259]

On 12/04/2021 at 08:13, Capt. Pants said:

I'm confident there will be three worse than us. I worry about the physicality thing though. Being good at football is only part of the requirement unfortunately.

Yeah, sometimes it seemed that we played better against the top teams in the Premier League than the teams in a relegation struggle last time around, I think thats a big part of why we went down.  

Im hopeful after this season that we are now better at grinding out results, dealing with teams that are more physical etc. 

[Haus 259]

9 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

"Concern for" and "Leeds United" is a contradiction of terms Drayton. They are not liked.

Perhaps memories of past hooliganism linger (my harmless old man was 'attacked' by a yob one time. He was very shaken.)

Perhaps it's Don Revie's excellent but cynical team(s) that are recalled.

However with their size, support and history the Premier League is the rightful place for Leeds.

Same, I have bad experiences of Leeds fans, a mates missus got separated from us after a game years ago at a train station and got attacked by a group of lads and bottled.

No sympathy for them, Plus they are always the most entitled fans who think their club is a bigger deal than it is. 

[lake district canary 4,531]

15 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

"Concern for" and "Leeds United" is a contradiction of terms Drayton. They are not liked.

Perhaps memories of past hooliganism linger (my harmless old man was 'attacked' by a yob one time. He was very shaken.)

Perhaps it's Don Revie's excellent but cynical team(s) that are recalled.

However with their size, support and history the Premier League is the rightful place for Leeds.

I can't agree that Leeds have any right to think they should be in the PL. No team does. 

On Revie, I remember quite well the arrogance and cynicism of the Leeds team under Revie.  Brian Clough was right, there was a better way of winning leagues than the way Leeds played/approached the game. That Revie era coloured so many fans' opinions of Leeds - yes they won a few trophies (eventually) and had success, but to a lot of neutrals, what good things they could do on the pitch were soiled by the cynicism and gamesmanship.

[ged in the onion bag 855]

On 11/04/2021 at 22:53, Felixfan said:

I fear we will be favourites to go down again.

Well good odds to lump on then!    

[ged in the onion bag 855]

Someone mentioned Brighton earlier as a team likely worse than us!     Think there may be a few but not Brighton......

They have literally been us this season but in the EPL.... great football, well organised just missed far too many chances.   

They are a decent finisher away from being top-half!   

[BroadstairsR 2,168]

16 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I can't agree that Leeds have any right to think they should be in the PL. No team does. 

On Revie, I remember quite well the arrogance and cynicism of the Leeds team under Revie.  Brian Clough was right, there was a better way of winning leagues than the way Leeds played/approached the game. That Revie era coloured so many fans' opinions of Leeds - yes they won a few trophies (eventually) and had success, but to a lot of neutrals, what good things they could do on the pitch were soiled by the cynicism and gamesmanship.

Well fair enough, but 'rightful place' doesn't quite mean that they 'have a right.'

(This is the thread for semantic nit-pickery after all 😉)

Perhaps I'm old fashioned.

Big City club and all that.

I remember being surprised when I found out that Leeds came after Birmingham in size of population. In effect our third city.

You name a country in Europe or further afield where the big city clubs do not dominate ... by and large.

Edited April 13, 2021 by BroadstairsR

[nutty nigel 7,536]

Somebody might check this and prove me wrong...

Since we were first promoted in 1972 I think we have spent more seasons in the top flight than Massive Leeds😯

Edited April 13, 2021 by nutty nigel

[Crabbycanary3 994]

23 hours ago, lake district canary said:

My musings about the future are usually in opposition to those that err towards the negative side. It's not that I'm overly positive about the football, it's more that I don't agree with people assuming negative stuff before it's happened. The future is not written, it's for the team to write the future and that could be anything from bottom of the league to the top of the league. I know we could have an awful season and finish bottom, but because it is football and it is us under Farke, I know our football at it's best can compete with anyone. 

So top? Why not?  Stranger things have happened and it's about time a lesser club did something spectacular in the PL.  That's not to say we will do it, but the expectation of trundling along  near the bottom of the table for me is not something I will entertain either. We will see what will happen, but negativity about next season is a tad premature. For me, if there is any excitement in thinking about the future it is that we don't really know what will happen either way. One thing for me though is certain - we have a stronger set up now than we did last time.

Again, it's all about semantics. Dylan has taking a bash at his wording. I took his title AND the text to mean something different to you, that's all.

@dylanisabaddog actually mentions 4 teams in his opening post , so it is perhaps better to take what that he said in context and not just read the headline 🙃 I knew what he was getting at and I expanded my take on it, with my ramblings.

It's not black and white. You can be realistic (some people see that as negative) BUT you can guarantee, that all Norwich fans WANT us to win every game, but accept that isn't always (ever?) possible, as it's never been done before. DF is very good with his words and man management, I think we can all agree, and the team will believe they can win every game they go into. The fans? Well, we are not privy to everything that happens around those that walk the corridors of Colney and Carrow Road, but we all know we can beat anyone on our day (Man City 18 months ago), but we START every season with a priority list. 1st one is to stay up (as per OP). If someone offered you the one 'minimum' dream next season, wouldn't the majority of Norwich fans want survival? Some may take another Man City type of day coupled with relegation, or variations on that, but I am confident the majority would take survival first.

Dylan is not stupid, and could have then produced half a dozen more threads (e.g finishing position/beating Man City again/how to beat the lower end Clubs etc) but this thread is just wanting to discuss the first priority. I don't really get the poking at his words tbh. He is not sat in a dark corner, dribbling away, he's just producing a talking point, that, imo, some people have taken to the wrong end of the scale.

I am agreeing with you by btw, in terms of 'Why not top'? Let's aim to win all the games. Once that dream fades (which it might do 😉 ) then the clock keeps resetting, but come next May, if the only box left to tick is survival, and we achieve that (by virtue of 3 teams worse than us) then it'll have been a 'good' season by that definition.

It's not an expectation, it's just hitting the minimum, but it doesn't mean that is your only thought and anything progression/success is out of the thinking.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Crabbycanary3

[BroadstairsR 2,168]

35 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Somebody might check this and prove me wrong...

Since we were first promoted in 1972 I think we have spent more seasons in the top flight than Massive Leeds😯

I looked it up. I think that this is their twelfth season in the Premier League (Premiership.) They have had some previous L.1. since your date.

Their stadium nolding 37, 000 is rather small for that big city, certainly not massive.

Wasn't it Risdale who did the damage there?

I didn't know they were called the Peacocks (rather suitable?) So  yet another team named after a bird. Robins, Swans, Throstles, Magpies, CANARIES etc. Much better than being named after a farmyard vehicle, although Peacocks is stretching it..

Edited April 13, 2021 by BroadstairsR