January Transfer Business

[Thirsty Lizard 3,169]

2 hours ago, Tetteys Jig said:

not prepared to write off Hugill yet. I think he'll be an important player for us as the season goes on when we need to find another way past some stubborn defences. We have a lot of games against organised but bang average opponents that will be looking to nick a draw or a 1 nil win and as good as Emi, Todd, Dowell and Pukki could be, its a fairly predictable and congested plan. Having hugill there to dig in and win some of the uglier 50 50s will help.

I'd be looking to give Soto the FA cup game to see where he is and potentially loan out Idah to give him some game time and confidence. It's make or break for him now in a way.

As for the rest of the side, I don't think we need to do anything bar keep our current players fit and firing. Plenty of players due back soon to help us out though I'd be tempted to recall famewo as I really don't want us having to resort to Tettey at centre back. We need him as backup to Skipp in the middle

What on earth are you talking about? He's 19!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Fuzzar 1,702]

20 minutes ago, Indy said:

Sorry Hogsesar totally disagree from wha5 I’ve seen of Hugill he’s just not likely to get us double figure, really need Idah and Soto.

See earlier in the thread, Soto won't get a work permit unless there's a major post Brexit rule change. 

Edited December 27, 2020 by Fuzzar

[Indy 3,307]

35 minutes ago, Fuzzar said:

See earlier in the thread, Soto won't get a work permit unless there's a major post Brexit rule change. 

Yes, we’ll see, I’m hopeful, nor sue where he’ll be come January!

[Tetteys Jig 830]

2 hours ago, Fuzzar said:

Thanks. So given he was only called up in November, we ain't seeing him this season.

Michael Bailey seemed to be delighted when he came on as sub last game for USMNT and I believe there's been whispers he is now eligible for a permit so we're looking to bring him back, give him the FA cup game and then either he'll be challenging Pukki or sent out on loan domestically.

How many games have the USMNT even played this year?

[hogesar 9,709]

1 hour ago, Indy said:

Sorry Hogsesar totally disagree from wha5 I’ve seen of Hugill he’s just not likely to get us double figure, really need Idah and Soto.

Idah looks a decent prospect.

We've not seen much of Hugill but we do know he scores goals at this level. He done it as recently as last year in a bang average QPR side.

[pete 320]

All very good suggestions regarding a new striker, however little advice on where the money is to come from for the transfer fee and wages.  Our brief visit to the PL didn't provide the riches we expected, a Pukki replacement of equal calibre would cost around £10m and not be prepared to be understudy.  Don't expect many signings if any, plenty to come back to bolster the squad, covered in all positions.  

[Midlands Yellow 4,018]

32 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Idah looks a decent prospect.

We've not seen much of Hugill but we do know he scores goals at this level. He done it as recently as last year in a bang average QPR side.

Idah needs to kick on sooner rather than later.He hasn’t moved forward in played game time since the treble against PNE reserves. 

[hogesar 9,709]

9 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Idah needs to kick on sooner rather than later.He hasn’t moved forward in played game time since the treble against PNE reserves. 

In his defence he's had limited minutes and an injury. Not had much of a chance as the main striker either.

[unique 435]

We need a back-up striker. God forbid if Pukki gets injured. Pukki and Buendia are our only reliable source of goals, it would seem.

If anyone thinks Hugil is sufficient back-up, then his stats say otherwise. 

A goal every four games is probably not even a bare minimum requirement from a number nine, 11 assists in 260 matches doesn’t exactly cover his lack of goals.

If he was any good he would have played many more minutes for City than he has so far. I suspect he was bought more for his ‘character’ than his footballing ability. Whether that can be valued in millions is debatable.

 

 

[Jersey Canary 143]

4 hours ago, Newtopia said:

Soto needs to play in 60% (or more) of the USA’s game in a year to qualify.

Do the rules change in January? 

[smooth 114]

I think Hugill needs to show his hand a bit once on the field. I feel we try and play the same way which means the confidence of others may not be with his style. But having seen his goals last season they aren't all headers so he should be able to be a threat.

But so far he has not looked like a player who is pushing pukki, let's not forget Idah has come on ahead of him and I will say Idah is a striker with many more attributes but still learning.

I agree with many comments that a poacher is needed, someone who is greedy takes the right shot.

I am glad other said that Hugill should have squared the ball yesterday for Skipp to take a shot rather than him after retrieving a corner.

Goals win games and I think another striker will make ths league be aware that we are wanting a player we believe will score to take us up and then be up there for ths premier league challenge.

Not sure Hugill looks like he is showing that he is ready to step up

[Newtopia 518]

1 hour ago, Jersey Canary said:

Do the rules change in January? 

Not significantly, although if the USA rise 2 places in the ranking it drops to 40% of the games.  Although I am not an expert.   https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/premier-league-player-signings-brexit-rules-age-b1764690.html

Edited December 27, 2020 by Newtopia

[Dr Greenthumb 750]

2 hours ago, hogesar said:

In his defence he's had limited minutes and an injury. Not had much of a chance as the main striker either.

Also been asked to play out on the left 

[birchfest 397]

Its such a hard one to judge with Hugill, as with any player, if they don't start you're never going to get a proper look at them. It was awful timing for him to get injured at the same time as Pukki as it would have given him 2 games to get a full match under his belt and show us what he is about. I watched the compilation of his goals on the thread thats about at the moment and I noticed a lot of his goals seem to be from balls over the top or from attacking the second ball from a semi clearance. We play in such a way that we don't create as many chances that way, with it being more those defence splitting passes that feed pukki on the floor. I hope it works out for him for everyones sake but if not its a position we might have to look at again in the this window or the summer.

[king canary 7,643]

We're highly unlikely to sign a striker- I've not bee impressed with Hugill but with Idah back soon and a decent chunk of cash invested into Hugill we're not likely to shell out for someone who would likely be a backup most of the time. That only changes if we decide to cut our losses on Hugill and try and move him on already which doesn't feel likely to me.

We need a left back- Sorenson filled in fine but he shouldn't have to and it isn't a sustainable long term strategy. Michael Bailey seemed to suggest that we weren't considered recalling McCallum though so I don't know how you best do that.

Edited December 27, 2020 by king canary

[Six Pack 94]

12 hours ago, Tetteys Jig said:

not prepared to write off Hugill yet. I think he'll be an important player for us as the season goes on when we need to find another way past some stubborn defences. We have a lot of games against organised but bang average opponents that will be looking to nick a draw or a 1 nil win and as good as Emi, Todd, Dowell and Pukki could be, its a fairly predictable and congested plan. Having hugill there to dig in and win some of the uglier 50 50s will help.

I'd be looking to give Soto the FA cup game to see where he is and potentially loan out Idah to give him some game time and confidence. It's make or break for him now in a way.

As for the rest of the side, I don't think we need to do anything bar keep our current players fit and firing. Plenty of players due back soon to help us out though I'd be tempted to recall famewo as I really don't want us having to resort to Tettey at centre back. We need him as backup to Skipp in the middle

Can you explain to me how you have Dowell in this exclusive group ? Is he good ? What has Dowell done to be elevated to share the same status of Pukki and Buendia  ? and why has Hugill not ? He is in the same boat as Hugill as far as I'm concern - unproven !

[Rich T The Biscuit 562]

6 hours ago, Six Pack said:

Can you explain to me how you have Dowell in this exclusive group ? Is he good ? What has Dowell done to be elevated to share the same status of Pukki and Buendia  ? and why has Hugill not ? He is in the same boat as Hugill as far as I'm concern - unproven !

I see that Skipp has included Dowell in with Emi and Cantwell and Pukki so he must have some talent about him.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,791]

10 hours ago, king canary said:

We're highly unlikely to sign a striker- I've not bee impressed with Hugill but with Idah back soon and a decent chunk of cash invested into Hugill we're not likely to shell out for someone who would likely be a backup most of the time. That only changes if we decide to cut our losses on Hugill and try and move him on already which doesn't feel likely to me.

We need a left back- Sorenson filled in fine but he shouldn't have to and it isn't a sustainable long term strategy. Michael Bailey seemed to suggest that we weren't considered recalling McCallum though so I don't know how you best do that.

We have ..Mumba Byram McCallum Quintilla Heise all associated with the club, yes a couple of them are injured but it would be fairly inexcusable to go throughout January still exposed in that position, particularly if we have the option to recall players on loan

[canarycop 206]

I see Glenn Middleton is to leave Rangers on loan. He is one who could really have flourished under the current regime. I wonder if he regrets the decision he made and the way he went about it. Not saying we should take home back but had that something about him when younger. 

[smooth 114]

11 hours ago, king canary said:

We're highly unlikely to sign a striker- I've not bee impressed with Hugill but with Idah back soon and a decent chunk of cash invested into Hugill we're not likely to shell out for someone who would likely be a backup most of the time. That only changes if we decide to cut our losses on Hugill and try and move him on already which doesn't feel likely to me.

We need a left back- Sorenson filled in fine but he shouldn't have to and it isn't a sustainable long term strategy. Michael Bailey seemed to suggest that we weren't considered recalling McCallum though so I don't know how you best do that.

King I understand the thoughts on a striker, but I do think we entered the season light here and should have had 4.

Idah is not just promising, he is becoming a threat to many in this division and a long run out will get him on ths scoring charts.

Hugill, needs to show his style and make an impact for defences to worry about him and for our group to play to his strengths.

I understand the point on spending cash on strikers but I also know that if we do go up we will need another striker who is more potent than Hugill and we will need to purchase or loan one who will truly challenge Pukki.

Yes it is an investment in a striker but they score the goals to get you promoted or stay up.

We have invested in Hugill but in the football world we are in it is not an extravagant figure and it is a position where you need to start getting goals quick. Otherwise you can become like Becchio.

In other promotion seasons we have bought in a player or players who have added to the group or have shown a little intent to gain promotion. We have exceptional players in our squad and first team but if one is available and we believe a deal can be done then go for it.

[ged in the onion bag 856]

Being critical, we are too nice, far too easily bullied for a team with EPL ambitions.   Will we use January to prepare for the Premier League.   If we fail to go up now, this project takes serious steps backwards as we will definitely lose Aaron’s, Buendia and possibly Pukki.   That happens, we aren’t the same team, confidence will likely drain.   

We don’t have a left back or central midfielder capable of playing regularly in the EPL...not sure we have an adequate central defender either and only Pukki up front.   We don’t have a proven method of play and still no plan B.  At the least our plan A needs more intensity.   Plenty to work on, January is vital this time otherwise the summer may leave us too light again.   Hoping we’ve been able to identify some improvements in what we have.    Soto isn’t anywhere near ready,  Hugill isn’t good enough, v Watford, his decision to shoot from no angle demonstrated that, when a glaring pull back was obvious.    Skipp isn’t ours, Rupp doesn’t have the pace, power and ability to control EPL matches, Sorensen is unproven and inexperienced still (most likely not going to be ready).   Get McCallum back and give Sorensen time in the middle....We have no other central midfield options to step up.   Quintilla is clearly too lightweight and defensively naive for EPL level.   Byram (who isn’t a natural left back) is unreliable and whilst he did well last year it’s undeniable the left sided balance was missing (as it is now) and we are too predictable. 

 

Martin and Idah need games so loans make sense but Idah is currently our best back up forward... dilemmas, dilemmas. Dowell needs time.   

if we go up, we need to be better prepared and players need to be familiar with our play, hence January reinforcements are necessary.      Since we are already overloaded, we need to start selling or releasing some too. 
 

 

Edited December 28, 2020 by ged in the onion bag

[BroadstairsR 2,186]

A lot of complicated thinking on here ... inevitable I suppose as the dilemna is that it is split between consideration of prospective divisional needs.

I think that the club would be mad not to throw the bank at a proven striker at this moment in time and in order to maximise the chances of grabbing the greater prize that promotion brings.

As somebody has stated, should Pukki succumb to a longish term injury our chances could well be flucked, and whilst I have faith in Idah's promise and hope that Hugill will justify breathing the Norfolk air, I remain unconvinced that either could seal the deal this season. We are in a promising position, let not temerity or frugality waste this.

Proven strikers are expensive and we would not wish to be lumbered with his high wage demands should we fail this season. 

A decent loan is, or should be, on the cards. A poster has mentioned Dwight  Gayle in this respect. I am unaware of the situation with him at Newcastle, but guess from that reference that he is available. At thirty one it would tick the necessary boxes. Jordan Rhodes with knobs on.

That sort of signing is my cup of tea. You have to take a risk occasionally. 

[Tetteys Jig 830]

8 hours ago, Six Pack said:

Can you explain to me how you have Dowell in this exclusive group ? Is he good ? What has Dowell done to be elevated to share the same status of Pukki and Buendia  ? and why has Hugill not ? He is in the same boat as Hugill as far as I'm concern - unproven !

it's more about setup and reputation to be honest. Our first choice side appears to include him though as I've alluded to, for all his supposed strengths, he's another central attacking mid that isn't the quickest or most dynamic.

If we come up against sides that just stick 2 banks of 4 behind the ball then those 3 behind Pukki may not be the answer.

Hugill will benefit from Xavi being back in the side and us attacking both flanks more prominently. As great as Pukki is, you can plop 30 speculative crosses into the box and he probably won't score, hugill would have a better chance.

[Thirsty Lizard 3,169]

1 hour ago, BroadstairsR said:

A lot of complicated thinking on here ... inevitable I suppose as the dilemna is that it is split between consideration of prospective divisional needs.

I think that the club would be mad not to throw the bank at a proven striker at this moment in time and in order to maximise the chances of grabbing the greater prize that promotion brings.

As somebody has stated, should Pukki succumb to a longish term injury our chances could well be flucked, and whilst I have faith in Idah's promise and hope that Hugill will justify breathing the Norfolk air, I remain unconvinced that either could seal the deal this season. We are in a promising position, let not temerity or frugality waste this.

Proven strikers are expensive and we would not wish to be lumbered with his high wage demands should we fail this season. 

A decent loan is, or should be, on the cards. A poster has mentioned Dwight  Gayle in this respect. I am unaware of the situation with him at Newcastle, but guess from that reference that he is available. At thirty one it would tick the necessary boxes. Jordan Rhodes with knobs on.

That sort of signing is my cup of tea. You have to take a risk occasionally. 

The idea of Dwight Gayle coming here to be second in line to Pukki is fanciful. If (god forbid) Teemu were to pick up a long term injury then maybe. 

[BroadstairsR 2,186]

9 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

The idea of Dwight Gayle coming here to be second in line to Pukki is fanciful. If (god forbid) Teemu were to pick up a long term injury then maybe. 

WBA didn't seem to think that way when, newly relegated, they loaned him from Newcastle in 2018. He wasn't first in line there in any case even though he was a younger man.

It would depend a lot upon the player's current situation at Newcastle and, of course, the financial demands, but it's far from 'fanciful,' imo.

If not him though, something  similar.

Edited December 28, 2020 by BroadstairsR

[sgncfc 1,233]

1 hour ago, BroadstairsR said:

A lot of complicated thinking on here ... inevitable I suppose as the dilemna is that it is split between consideration of prospective divisional needs.

I think that the club would be mad not to throw the bank at a proven striker at this moment in time and in order to maximise the chances of grabbing the greater prize that promotion brings.

As somebody has stated, should Pukki succumb to a longish term injury our chances could well be flucked, and whilst I have faith in Idah's promise and hope that Hugill will justify breathing the Norfolk air, I remain unconvinced that either could seal the deal this season. We are in a promising position, let not temerity or frugality waste this.

Proven strikers are expensive and we would not wish to be lumbered with his high wage demands should we fail this season. 

A decent loan is, or should be, on the cards. A poster has mentioned Dwight  Gayle in this respect. I am unaware of the situation with him at Newcastle, but guess from that reference that he is available. At thirty one it would tick the necessary boxes. Jordan Rhodes with knobs on.

That sort of signing is my cup of tea. You have to take a risk occasionally. 

Dwight Gayle is reputedly on over £100k a week. He ain't coming to Norwich, though I agree he'd be a great fit.

[Thirsty Lizard 3,169]

19 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

WBA didn't seem to think that way when, newly relegated, they loaned him from Newcastle in 2018. He wasn't first in line there in any case even though he was a younger man.

It would depend a lot upon the player's current situation at Newcastle and, of course, the financial demands, but it's far from 'fanciful,' imo.

If not him though, something  similar.

I'm afraid you're only telling half the story here Broadstairs.

What you haven't mentioned (or don't know) is that at the same time that Gayle joined West Brom from Newcastle Solomon Rondon went the other way from West Brom to Newcastle.  West Brom let their main striker go to Newcastle for the season in exchange for getting Gayle for the season.

The analogy for us obviously is that we send Pukki to Newcastle in exchange for Gayle. Do you want to do that? 

[king canary 7,643]

2 hours ago, smooth said:

King I understand the thoughts on a striker, but I do think we entered the season light here and should have had 4.

Idah is not just promising, he is becoming a threat to many in this division and a long run out will get him on ths scoring charts.

Hugill, needs to show his style and make an impact for defences to worry about him and for our group to play to his strengths.

I understand the point on spending cash on strikers but I also know that if we do go up we will need another striker who is more potent than Hugill and we will need to purchase or loan one who will truly challenge Pukki.

Yes it is an investment in a striker but they score the goals to get you promoted or stay up.

We have invested in Hugill but in the football world we are in it is not an extravagant figure and it is a position where you need to start getting goals quick. Otherwise you can become like Becchio.

In other promotion seasons we have bought in a player or players who have added to the group or have shown a little intent to gain promotion. We have exceptional players in our squad and first team but if one is available and we believe a deal can be done then go for it.

You're not going to get many teams going into acseason with 4 first team level strikers when they only play one up top.

If we sign another striker the best they are going to be in 2nd choice to Pukki as of now.

Most clubs don't want to loan out a youngster to be second choice and we're not going to spend £4-5m on someone to be backup.

[BroadstairsR 2,186]

18 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

I'm afraid you're only telling half the story here Broadstairs.

What you haven't mentioned (or don't know) is that at the same time that Gayle joined West Brom from Newcastle Solomon Rondon went the other way from West Brom to Newcastle.  West Brom let their main striker go to Newcastle for the season in exchange for getting Gayle for the season.

The analogy for us obviously is that we send Pukki to Newcastle in exchange for Gayle. Do you want to do that? 

I was aware of the Rondon situation (wiki, wik, wiki,) but considered it irrelevant.

 

The pertinent thing is that Gayle (even when younger) was agreeable to dropping into a lower tier. Also, Rondon wanted out (ala Maddison etc.,) was far more of an asset financially than Pukki would ever be (even in a loan swap) and it was a time when newly relegated clubs need adapt their finances to their new surroundings. 

Whatever wages Gayle is reportedly on it would seem that the situation at Newcastle seems to be that he is no longer a fit and that they therefore have a need to mitigate against this expense. Clearly City couldn't consider anything near £1000 pw, but, like I said, it would depend upon finances.

 

Edited December 28, 2020 by BroadstairsR

[BroadstairsR 2,186]

Talking of Gayle made me ponder the time when we specialised in signing these "towards the end of their career" strikers. Classy ones (internationals) as well:-

Peter Osgood  3 apps. (76-77)

Martin Chivers  11 apps (78-79)

Joe Royle  42 apps (80-82)

And, of course, a 34 years old Mick Channon who went on to play 88 games between 82-85.

How times change that signing on loan a lesser player than these legends might nowadays be considered fanciful. We might have been L.1. in those days but we were still 'lil old Norwich after all, never the richest and usually liable to relegation.

It's the money what does it.

Edited December 28, 2020 by BroadstairsR