The 'I was wrong about Ruup' thread

[cambridgeshire canary 7,797]

Alright, alright. I'll be the first to admit it. I have been critical of him. I have often thought he added nothing.

 

Admittedly whenever he played on the wing he did look pretty gash .Quite awful really. 

 

However since playing in the central midfield role hes honestly look pretty solid. Is be a great fantastic footballer? No. But is he as bad as I have been giving him stick for? No. If anything hes pretty ok. Just ok.

 

He's a sold 6/10, and I will put my hands in the air and confess to being a little too harsh on him.. and at the end of the day I will happily take him in midfield over Mclean.

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

 "........ and at the end of the day I will happily take him in midfield over Mclean."

Not much in it, imo, but McClean is more likely to score a goal.

Both solid Chumps players, nothing more. Miles from being established PL players.

 

[seanthecanary 168]

Call me old fashioned but unless you are talking about a few exceptional talents, playing people in their most natural position generally sees better results than when you play them elsewhere.  When Jordan Henderson first went to Liverpool, he often played wide at first and Liverpool fans thought they had signed a dud.  Funnily enough, playing him where he should be has yielded much better results.  It's not really rocket science. In Rupp's case, he is centre midfield player so play him there.  There is no point trying to be clever all the time and attempting to "convert" players into something they are not.  Square pegs in square holes please, we are not that good to do otherwise.

Edited October 4, 2020 by seanthecanary

[The Real Buh 3,765]

Yesterday was the first time I’d watched him and not thought “why are you here? What is your position? What do you add to the team?”

[cambridgeshire canary 7,797]

16 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

Yesterday was the first time I’d watched him and not thought “why are you here? What is your position? What do you add to the team?”

The fact Farke stuck with him as a winger despite it being so obvious he was lost and confused when up top still baffles me.

 

Still a flaw Ruup has mind, always looks too scared to go forward and attack or shoot. Even Mclean likes to try and to forward, and Tetty when it comes to getting forward and trying to shoot.. do i need to say more?

[seanthecanary 168]

8 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

The fact Farke stuck with him as a winger despite it being so obvious he was lost and confused when up top still baffles me.

 

Still a flaw Ruup has mind, always looks too scared to go forward and attack or shoot. Even Mclean likes to try and to forward, and Tetty when it comes to getting forward and trying to shoot.. do i need to say more?

Based on his career stats Rupp scores a goal for roughly every ten games he plays.  I think that shows he's not an attack minded midfielder and certainly not a winger come forward.  City should have known what they were buying in January so to try and play him in a more advanced role seems bizarre to me and goes back to what I said earlier about square pegs and square holes. 

Edited October 4, 2020 by seanthecanary

[Jerrykerry 223]

1 hour ago, BroadstairsR said:

 "........ and at the end of the day I will happily take him in midfield over Mclean."

Not much in it, imo, but McClean is more likely to score a goal.

Both solid Chumps players, nothing more. Miles from being established PL players.

 

Which is fine as we are in the championship not the premier league. 

So what was your point? 

[Jerrykerry 223]

21 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

The fact Farke stuck with him as a winger despite it being so obvious he was lost and confused when up top still baffles me.

 

Still a flaw Ruup has mind, always looks too scared to go forward and attack or shoot. Even Mclean likes to try and to forward, and Tetty when it comes to getting forward and trying to shoot.. do i need to say more?

Why baffled? 

We had nobody else. 

[The Bristol Nest 597]

I have never been negative about Rupp or McClean. I actually think that Kenny one of our best midfielders. However, it was Rupp that gave away the free kick that resulted in the goal that decided the game.

[Michael Wynless Jones 161]

Nope, still don't think I'm wrong bang average at best. Even yesterday when many thought he was our best player, he was slow in possession and missed 3 or 4 good runs from Hernandez in the first half alone by not looking up. 

I don't see what he offers, modern day Andy Hughes. 

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,035]

Is a solid 6/10 good enough and worthy of praise of the sort of a dedicated thread?

I'd personally want a little more than that?

The fact that we've got Rupp and McLean but are showing Trybull and Leitner out of the door troubles me

[Flying Dutchman 766]

The lesson of 'don't judge a player before we've had plenty of chance to look at him' will not be learned by many fans unfortunately.

Edited October 4, 2020 by Flying Dutchman

[Crabbycanary3 994]

You missed the word 'spelling' from the thread title .

[Capt. Pants 5,008]

Rupp was pretty good yesterday and seem to relish not having McLean getting in the way.

Hopefully Rupp will continue this form. Early days yet before I'm convinced.

 

[All the Germans 1,239]

20 minutes ago, Flying Dutchman said:

The lesson of 'don't judge a player before we've had plenty of chance to look at him' will not be learned by many fans unfortunately.

and it never will. The same people who wants to drop a striker as soon as he doesn't score, hails a new striker as the best thing in the world as soon as he does score (and then wants him dropped when he subsequently doesn't score), wants a manager sacked after a loss etc etc. I don't know why football make - usually reasonable - people swing from one extreme to another from game to game (and within games too!).

[Capt. Pants 5,008]

Shock horror, a forum where fans discuss things.

[Michael Wynless Jones 161]

3 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Shock horror, a forum where fans discuss things.

Sadly in the modern game, there are a number of fans who if you don't agree with them you're instantly wrong, forum snobbery is massive on here in particular, especially if, God forbid, you want something good or different to happen to the club. It's quite prominent a few posts up from yours. 

[Six Pack 105]

23 minutes ago, The Bristol Nest said:

I have never been negative about Rupp or McClean. I actually think that Kenny one of our best midfielders. However, it was Rupp that gave away the free kick that resulted in the goal that decided the game.

I thought it was necessary to bring Whittaker down, so was good play by Rupp. Whittaker was brearing down on goal at a rate of knots - had wrong footed Zimmermann and was clean through. It was actually a good last ditch foul to give away.

[hogesar 10,762]

30 minutes ago, Flying Dutchman said:

The lesson of 'don't judge a player before we've had plenty of chance to look at him' will not be learned by many fans unfortunately.

On the flip side I've defended Rupp since he joined yet for those who have thought he offered absolutely nothing, its equally a bit soon for them to be suddenly flip flopping in the other direction!

I said from his first game for us that he obviously has a good engine, a good understanding positionally, tackles well and could pass. Certainly at this level I think he is an asset.

[seanthecanary 168]

2 minutes ago, Six Pack said:

I thought it was necessary to bring Whittaker down, so was good play by Rupp. Whittaker was brearing down on goal at a rate of knots - had wrong footed Zimmermann and was clean through. It was actually a good last ditch foul to give away.

Same, I felt most players would have done the same thing 

[king canary 8,751]

13 minutes ago, All the Germans said:

and it never will. The same people who wants to drop a striker as soon as he doesn't score, hails a new striker as the best thing in the world as soon as he does score (and then wants him dropped when he subsequently doesn't score), wants a manager sacked after a loss etc etc. I don't know why football make - usually reasonable - people swing from one extreme to another from game to game (and within games too!).

People can only judge on what they see, last season we saw a player who looked fairly hopeless in the position he was being played in. 

[NFN FC 1,142]

He's gotta do a lot more than one alright game to convince me. I thought his tackling was alright but his passing not great. 

[PurpleCanary 6,381]

44 minutes ago, The Bristol Nest said:

I have never been negative about Rupp or McClean. I actually think that Kenny one of our best midfielders. However, it was Rupp that gave away the free kick that resulted in the goal that decided the game.

Yes but the real fault was with whoever it was got a simple short pass wrong on the edge of the Derby penalty area.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 4,615]

My opinion of Rupp hasn't changed.

I thought he was terribly out of his depth in the Premier League to put it politely, however I always thought that he could do a job as a versatile, reliable, experienced squad player in the Championship.

That is pretty much what he has shown so far this season. He's reliable and does a job, but I don't think we should use him as the mainstay in the midfield and as a regular starter. He's still very negative with his passing, as he always prefers a safe pass backwards rather than an ambitious ball forwards and if we're going to challenge for promotion, we need players who aren't afraid to be more positive in possession. 

[The Bristol Nest 597]

Just now, Six Pack said:

I thought it was necessary to bring Whittaker down, so was good play by Rupp. Whittaker was brearing down on goal at a rate of knots - had wrong footed Zimmermann and was clean through. It was actually a good last ditch foul to give away.

That's a perfectly reasonable perspective on the situation. I just wondered why Rupp had his own thread following an ok ish game.

[Clint 221]

Regards the free kick, he had no choice but to take the guy out but my only thoughts would be, why didn’t he take him out earlier in a less dangerous position.

Gibson had gone walkabout upfield, Zimbo and Quintilla aren’t the quickest so just wipe the guy out before he gets anywhere near our box. As a team, we never ever seem to commit cynical/clever fouls.

 

[Petriix 3,214]

I thought Rupp played well yesterday for much of the game; albeit aided by playing against a very deep opposition. I agree that he definitely looks better playing in a central role and I think he will improve with more game time at this level. However, (as stated in other threads) alongside Skipp, our midfield lacks creativity.

As it is our defenders and central midfielders who will see the bulk of possession, we need a sufficient range of passing options in those areas. The fullbacks are clearly looking to get the ball wide and supply crosses into the box; an unfortunate mismatch with our general attacking style and goal threat. The central midfielders were simply feeding the attacking midfielders into congested areas or playing it wide to the fullbacks. What we are lacking is other creative passing options from those deep areas.

Rupp looked good when he carried the ball forward but then looked short of ideas. On numerous occasions yesterday he had the ball in space just inside the opposition half while several attacking players made runs behind the defence. Not once (IIRC) did he hit the ball directly in an attempt to find one of those runners. Instead he opted for the safe option every time. As a consequence, we failed to create chances.

As others have rightly pointed out, he was entirely culpable for giving away the freekick in the most dangerous possible position from which Derby scored the winner. I was screaming at the TV for him to bring the player down just inside the Norwich half and could not believe how far he let him run. It was incredibly poor reading of the game not to understand how exposed we were and any competent professional footballer should know when you have to make a cynical foul to avoid being caught out.

All players make mistakes. Pukki's penalty was equally as costly. I won't hold it against either player at this stage. But, a player is judged on the overall picture of their contribution to the team. Central midfielders will often seem anonymous to us uneducated fans while they are performing their job exactly as planned. It's often only the mistakes or the moments of genius that we really notice, which is more than a little unfair. Unfortunately with Rupp I don't get the impression we will see many moments to get excited about.

At Championship level, and certainly while playing weak opposition like Derby, I'm not convinced that we need a player like Rupp as well as Skipp in the midfield. We need someone who will run box-to-box and make something happen.

[Hardhouse44 289]

Hang on a minute. He’s done f—k all special in a team guilty of the same thing. Let not get carried away. We’re are in a very poor position at present and thing need to improve all round before we start entering people in to the hall of fame. 

[Six Pack 105]

32 minutes ago, Clint said:

Regards the free kick, he had no choice but to take the guy out but my only thoughts would be, why didn’t he take him out earlier in a less dangerous position.

Gibson had gone walkabout upfield, Zimbo and Quintilla aren’t the quickest so just wipe the guy out before he gets anywhere near our box. As a team, we never ever seem to commit cynical/clever fouls.

 

I fully understand your thinking Clint - in the 2012-13 season (Hughton's first season as manager) we led Spurs 1-0 and with Spurs looking ordinary was on course to get the 3 points. Then Gareth Bale picked up a loose ball on the halfway line, sprinted through to score ! Going back over the footage no one got near Bale during that run but on halfway Tettey could have taken him out. I have always believed that if it was BJ in Tettey's position he would have definitely taken Bale out and we would have won rather then draw that game. I am not sure if it's because Bale/Whitaker were a long way from goal and there were yellow shirts in still their way. Or it's because some players are just not that Blatant ! In hindsight someone should have just crippled Rooney !

[Peanuts 154]

14 minutes ago, Petriix said:

At Championship level, and certainly while playing weak opposition like Derby, I'm not convinced that we need a player like Rupp as well as Skipp in the midfield. We need someone who will run box-to-box and make something happen.

I'm not sure who that is though. Vrancic can certainly make things happen but don't think he has the legs any more, at least not for 90 minutes. Kenny is probably more attack minded than Rupp but I don't think he offers anything really that different. I actually thought Skipp looked pretty decent getting forward yesterday and would like to see more of that - perhaps that's what Farke wants from him and Rupp, two versatile midfielders rather than one sitting and one going forward?