Corona Virus main thread

[paul moy 235]

2 hours ago, ricardo said:

So actually, a percentage of UK taxpayers money returned to us with a different flag on it🇪🇺

😉

So refreshing to see at least one person on this BB understands the obvious 🤣

[Herman 9,842]

7 minutes ago, paul moy said:

Our reputation has taken massive strides forward while others have taken steps backwards (namely France and Germany) since January 1st and many countries will now wish to follow in our footsteps imo.

[Herman 9,842]

4 minutes ago, paul moy said:

So refreshing to see at least one person on this BB understands the obvious 🤣

Deleted. I must stop sinking to Moy's level.😳

Edited January 29, 2021 by Herman

[paul moy 235]

1 hour ago, horsefly said:

How stupid do you have to be to claim that money we payed into the EU as an oblgation of our membership was not thus EU money, but still our money merely  "redirected"? That this comes from the distorted brain of someone who laughably claims to be an "economist" makes it even more contemptible. It's on a par with your employer claiming the money she is obliged to pay to you for your labour is not your money at all but hers just redirected. Cretinous almost beyond belief.

You really are a joker.  The EU has never had its own money.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

2 hours ago, Herman said:

Vitamin D 2for1 and Holland and Barrett. It turns gammon into a light ham.

Gorgeous sunny day down here so an extra supply of Vitamin D today. Mind you the wind can blow your tache off.

[It's Character Forming 1,167]

44 minutes ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

 

You might want to try to work out how to use the quote function.... unless you're deliberately trying to make it look like I said something that I didn't ?

 

Anyway, I think most of us have worked out that the vaccine roll out hasn't yet had any real impact on death numbers, they're from historic infections, the vaccine is all about saving lives going forward and getting out of this and back to normal.

 

Also, if we're looking at death rates as a proportion of population, Belgium has done the worst (anyone got any idea why ?) and European countries have a range from Belgium downwards, the UK is up towards the top of that list but there are plenty of European countries not far below.  But as I say, that's irrelevant to vaccine discussions...

[The Real Buh 3,486]

1 hour ago, Well b back said:

We are or I am at least. People thought I was mad in March when I send there would be a U.K. vaccine by the end of the year.

Every time I put something up celebrating our success all you say is your data is rubbish and use it to slag off other Nations. Why don’t you celebrate our achievements as opposed to concentrating on others that are not doing so well.

I am off now to help with the National effort.

Celebrating UK success, scarily novel concept! I like it!

[paul moy 235]

1 minute ago, keelansgrandad said:

Gorgeous sunny day down here so an extra supply of Vitamin D today. Mind you the wind can blow your tache off.

You cannot get Vitamin D from the sun at this time of the year in the UK as there is not enough UVB radiation........  you get it from food or supplements.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I reiterate my feelings that we must stay out of the EU/AZ row and just get on with bringing back our programme to the rate of last week.

Someone is frankly lying although in those circles its not called that. And the only losers are those waiting for their jab.

[paul moy 235]

1 minute ago, keelansgrandad said:

I reiterate my feelings that we must stay out of the EU/AZ row and just get on with bringing back our programme to the rate of last week.

Someone is frankly lying although in those circles its not called that. And the only losers are those waiting for their jab.

Yes, and of course it surely could not be the EU could it in order to deflect attention from its own ongoing negligence and incompetence.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

5 minutes ago, paul moy said:

You cannot get Vitamin D from the sun at this time of the year in the UK as there is not enough UVB radiation........  you get it from food or supplements.

I was just being smug about our lovely sunshine today. I wouldn't bother taking tablets otherwise

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

3 minutes ago, paul moy said:

Yes, and of course it surely could not be the EU could it in order to deflect attention from its own ongoing negligence and incompetence.

You utter fool.

I wasn't going into depth about it but the very muddy waters of this dispute appear to be highland spring water to you.

You are a racist. You hate anyone but British.

[paul moy 235]

3 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

You utter fool.

I wasn't going into depth about it but the very muddy waters of this dispute appear to be highland spring water to you.

You are a racist. You hate anyone but British.

Yes totally racist Brexiteer, just like all the others, in your sad little mind.   😎

I find it quite amazing that after sight of all of the evidence that damns the EU in so many areas that they can still do no wrong.

Edited January 29, 2021 by paul moy

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 minute ago, paul moy said:

Yes totally racist Brexiteer, just like all the others, in your sad little mind.   😎

Not all Brexiteers share your racist views. They don't hate like you, they just wanted out of the Union.

You have a problem. 

[paul moy 235]

Just now, keelansgrandad said:

Not all Brexiteers share your racist views. They don't hate like you, they just wanted out of the Union.

You have a problem. 

So because I validly criticise the French or Germans I am a racist.  You don't really know what racism is.  

[Aggy 766]

2 hours ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

Surely you can't believe you own words after reading this. should we see the current Government actions in this light? A catch all devils charter. Dep, of Health and social CARE? really? the Food Standards Authority? These are the powers of a dictatorship Paul, get a grip of reality.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/58-01/0188/200188.pdf

Authorities to be capable of authorising criminal conduct (1) Section 30 of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000…

C1 – The Serious Fraud Office; The intelligence services
D1 – Any of the intelligence services; The armed forces
E1 – Any of Her Majesty’s forces; Revenue and Customs
F1 – Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs; Government departments

Authorities to be capable of authorising criminal conduct (1) Section 30 of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000…

C1 – The Serious Fraud Office; The intelligence services
D1 – Any of the intelligence services; The armed forces
E1 – Any of Her Majesty’s forces; Revenue and Customs
F1 – Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs; Government departments
G1 – The Department of Health and Social Care.
H1 – The Home Office.
I1 – The Ministry of Justice; Other bodies
J1 – The Competition and Markets Authority.
K1 – The Environment Agency.
L1 – The Financial Conduct Authority.
M1 – The Food Standards Agency.
N1 – The Gambling Commission.

G1 – The Department of Health and Social Care.
H1 – The Home Office.
I1 – The Ministry of Justice; Other bodies
J1 – The Competition and Markets Authority.
K1 – The Environment Agency.
L1 – The Financial Conduct Authority.
M1 – The Food Standards Agency.
N1 – The Gambling Commission.

Without particularly wanting to get embroiled in any discussion involving PM, what is the point you’re making here?

Is it that you like the list of the above things and think the government should have more powers of a dictatorship?

Or if your point is that you think the government already has powers of a dictatorship which go too far, how do you align that with the idea that the government should have removed any choice in whether people met up at Christmas and the individuals who chose to do so should take no blame?

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

5 minutes ago, paul moy said:

So because I validly criticise the French or Germans I am a racist.  You don't really know what racism is.  

You don't criticise, you hate.

Racism is someone who thinks they are superior purely because of RACE, creed or colour.

You have this fixation that being British makes you special.

[Herman 9,842]

30 minutes ago, It's Character Forming said:

You might want to try to work out how to use the quote function.... unless you're deliberately trying to make it look like I said something that I didn't ?

 

Anyway, I think most of us have worked out that the vaccine roll out hasn't yet had any real impact on death numbers, they're from historic infections, the vaccine is all about saving lives going forward and getting out of this and back to normal.

 

Also, if we're looking at death rates as a proportion of population, Belgium has done the worst (anyone got any idea why ?) and European countries have a range from Belgium downwards, the UK is up towards the top of that list but there are plenty of European countries not far below.  But as I say, that's irrelevant to vaccine discussions...

I think Belgium were reporting everything at the beginning which led to very high numbers. I'm not sure what happened but I feel it is a similar failing that many countries went through in the summer, taking their eyes off the ball and thinking the worst has passed.

They were not adverse to complete incompetence either.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/santa-covid-christmas-deaths-b623036.html

[Mark .Y. 352]

54 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Simply that they have two conflicting contracts - and if as the EU insists (the EU contract I note are now largely published at EU insistence - Belgian law - the lawyers can scrutinize but the EU quite clearly believes what it says) and if it does identify UK sources as manufacturing hubs (for the EU) for this contract then I don't see legally where there is much argument about having to compromise both. Share.

However, despite the contracts what will absolutely nail it for public opinion in the EU is if the EU  can show that some EU AZ stocks were used to supplement UK ones as we ramped up. Low early yields were not zero yields!  That was actually widely reported in the press several weeks ago in passing without angst when we authorized and they hadn't. "Early batches were from NL, Belgium etc". I can understand that decision if that's what happened - get it to where it could be used asap (all assuming the EU yield issue was a short term issue). Then again we do pay about twice as much don't we (45 % discount to EU reported)?

As they say - the road to hell is paved with good intentions. This may be just that what has happened here but is why I had hoped it could be sorted out of public gaze between friends. S h i t happens.

Statesmanship needed else I fear many will be worrying about their second Pfizer jab. Vaccine nationalism does indeed work both ways.

I hope I'm wrong.

I too hope that they can sort it out without all this public posturing etc.

I think there are possibly two key things around the dispute. Firstly it is the definition of "Best Reasonable Efforts" - FWIW my view of that is that surely it indicates AZ would do all they can to supply the contracted doses but could never 100% guarantee delivery, in reality anything could happen from staff strikes to a fire in a factory etc which might prevent delivery. Secondly, the question of whether doses were sent to the UK from European manufacturing sites - I guess they were, if they had been manufactured and the EU still had not approved the vaccine for use - what was AZ meant to do ?

Of course there may have been much else going on in the background that we will never learn about ............. 

[Yellow Fever 3,844]

3 minutes ago, Mark .Y. said:

I too hope that they can sort it out without all this public posturing etc.

I think there are possibly two key things around the dispute. Firstly it is the definition of "Best Reasonable Efforts" - FWIW my view of that is that surely it indicates AZ would do all they can to supply the contracted doses but could never 100% guarantee delivery, in reality anything could happen from staff strikes to a fire in a factory etc which might prevent delivery. Secondly, the question of whether doses were sent to the UK from European manufacturing sites - I guess they were, if they had been manufactured and the EU still had not approved the vaccine for use - what was AZ meant to do ?

Of course there may have been much else going on in the background that we will never learn about ............. 

Yes Mark - most of this is needless as it helps nobody and won't of itself expedite matters.Very good news on JJ as well just now!

[Van wink 2,994]

24 minutes ago, Mark .Y. said:

I too hope that they can sort it out without all this public posturing etc.

I think there are possibly two key things around the dispute. Firstly it is the definition of "Best Reasonable Efforts" - FWIW my view of that is that surely it indicates AZ would do all they can to supply the contracted doses but could never 100% guarantee delivery, in reality anything could happen from staff strikes to a fire in a factory etc which might prevent delivery. Secondly, the question of whether doses were sent to the UK from European manufacturing sites - I guess they were, if they had been manufactured and the EU still had not approved the vaccine for use - what was AZ meant to do ?

Of course there may have been much else going on in the background that we will never learn about ............. 

the only people that will benefit from this will be the lawyers, a tragic twist in what so far has been a magnificent effort. Hopefully common sense will prevail and a solution found.

Edited January 29, 2021 by Van wink

[Van wink 2,994]

A great couple of days for new vaccine announcements, two in two days and both highly effective it seems

Edited January 29, 2021 by Van wink

[Icecream Snow 762]

4 hours ago, ricardo said:

Eye of newt, toe of frog

+Nigel Farage's bile 😛

[Barbe bleu 834]

38 minutes ago, Herman said:

I think Belgium were reporting everything at the beginning which led to very high numbers. I'm not sure what happened but I feel it is a similar failing that many countries went through in the summer, taking their eyes off the ball and thinking the worst has passed.

They were not adverse to complete incompetence either.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/santa-covid-christmas-deaths-b623036.html

I think this is correct, as I recall Belgium reporting criteria were wider than elsewhere. However  their excess deaths per capita is the highest in Europe so 'liberal' reporting not be that material to the overall results.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker

What can be said of Belgium though is that their second wave peak was only 2/3 of that in April and is currently about 1/6 of the overall peak so good news for them but bad news for others who will catch up a bit i fear

Interestingly excess deaths in UK now lower than reported deaths

Edited January 29, 2021 by Barbe bleu

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

4 minutes ago, Icecream Snow said:

+Nigel Farage's bile 😛

How about Milk Shake🍦🍧

[ricardo 7,416]

 

 

The same people who a few short weeks ago were boasting how bulk buying would get a much cheaper price than the UK.

[Yellow Fever 3,844]

34 minutes ago, Van wink said:

the only people that will benefit from this will be the lawyers, a tragic twist I what so far has been a magnificent effort. Hopefully common sense will prevail and a solution found.

Exactly. 

I do wish we could focus on helping each other out as sure as night follows day we'll need each other to be nimble to update and respin and deal with random batch/plant failures. Reminds me of the semiconductor industry and second source fabs!

Novax is already for instance modifying to SA - perhaps they'll try to update to that before they release in volume so as to be 'current' when it's needed most.

[ricardo 7,416]

Around 350k jabs today I am told.👍

[Herman 9,842]

6 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Around 350k jabs today I am told.👍

Unfortunately Chris Grayling was administering them.

[ricardo 7,416]

Hope he's not doing them tomorrow when Mrs R goes in😱