Corona Virus main thread

[ricardo 7,395]

3 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Nobody seen the original title of this post? 

They've lost interest in baiting Swindon on the other thread and have now invaded this one.

[ricardo 7,395]

 

[The Real Buh 3,444]

Just now, ricardo said:

They've lost interest in baiting Swindon on the other thread and have now invaded this one.

🎵 “It’s all gone quiet over there!” 🎵 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

2 minutes ago, ricardo said:

They've lost interest in baiting Swindon on the other thread and have now invaded this one.

I somehow think its the other way round Ricardo. The overwhelming joy that the EU has become embroiled in this by some posters is nothing to do with Brexit and everyone knows it. Germany is sourcing a vaccine within Germany so it has nothing to do with being part of a Union.

There is a perfectly good point scoring, mudslinging, Brexit thread. 

This one is about Covid in this country. And congratulations to the Government for the job they are doing with the vaccine.

But lets not send Boris a dozen roses while we remember he has plenty of dead souls on his hands.

You are vulnerable and it could have been you or Shrimper.

The champagne can flow when we are done with it. And then the public whitewash, sorry, Inquiry can take place.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

I appreciate you're apoplectic at the moment Ricardo  - as are many others - it's not your fault which is why this should have all been handled quietly behind close doors. The EU didn't expect AZ to fall over with deliveries and their contract states what it does (and yes it includes quantities and dates RTB) . Our contract has no bearing on that. The issue is first and foremost one for AZ. 

However, what you don't know cant hurt you.

The contract does not state quantities and delivery dates. I will will grant you it states an overall 300 million doses and option for an extra 100 million. But beyond that the contract states that the EU will submit a list of where it wants deliveries made and when, for AZ's approval based on AZ's Best Reasonable Efforts. Here's a quotation from AZ CEO as to why the contract doesn't have hard-coded quantities and dates:

“… we didn’t commit with the EU, by the way. It’s not a commitment we have to Europe: it’s a best effort, we said we are going to make our best effort. The reason why we said that is because Europe at the time wanted to be supplied more or less at the same time as the UK, even though the contract was signed three months later. So we said, “ok, we’re going to do our best, we’re going to try, but we cannot commit contractually because we are three months behind UK”.”

[ricardo 7,395]

34 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I somehow think its the other way round Ricardo. The overwhelming joy that the EU has become embroiled in this by some posters is nothing to do with Brexit and everyone knows it. Germany is sourcing a vaccine within Germany so it has nothing to do with being part of a Union.

There is a perfectly good point scoring, mudslinging, Brexit thread. 

This one is about Covid in this country. And congratulations to the Government for the job they are doing with the vaccine.

But lets not send Boris a dozen roses while we remember he has plenty of dead souls on his hands.

You are vulnerable and it could have been you or Shrimper.

The champagne can flow when we are done with it. And then the public whitewash, sorry, Inquiry can take place.

What did you expect? Its the EU that have introduced a political aspect into this. Don't  blame people who saw it coming. Its not as if we have only just discovered that those with no fear of the ballot box act in this way. 

Edited January 29, 2021 by ricardo

[Creative Midfielder 1,998]

21 hours ago, paul moy said:

If it works on the under 65s without issues then surely all that can go wrong on the elderly/vulnerable  is that it may not work and obviously there could be some yet unseen side effects as with Pfizer, but we will see those early on if serious and can backtrack if necessary, so there is really nothing much to lose, as the upside is that it may well work and save thousands of lives.

That is the optimistic view, and it is quite possible that things will indeed work out ok.

But the fact remains that for many years now we, and by we I mean globally we, have insisted on very strict conditions with respect to the licensing of medical products involving very high evidential proofs of safety - and we have done that for very good reasons.

In fact we've done it precisely because there is so much to lose if we make what appear to be extremely reasonable assumptions which go disastrously wrong through some totally unforeseen factor.

The chances of that happening may be very small indeed but IMO, despite being in the middle of an emergency, I don't believe there is a convincing rationale to abandon the principles which we've arrived at via some extremely painful and disastrous past experiences.

 

[The Real Buh 3,444]

Just now, Creative Midfielder said:

That is the optimistic view, and it is quite possible that things will indeed work out ok.

But the fact remains that for many years now we, and by we I mean globally we, have insisted on very strict conditions with respect to the licensing of medical products involving very high evidential proofs of safety - and we have done that for very good reasons.

In fact we've done it precisely because there is so much to lose if we make what appear to be extremely reasonable assumptions which go disastrously wrong through some totally unforeseen factor.

The chances of that happening may be very small indeed but IMO, despite being in the middle of an emergency, I don't believe there is a convincing rationale to abandon the principles which we've arrived at via some extremely painful and disastrous past experiences.

 

Indulging in Russian/EU misinformation campaign. For free. Mug.

We should legit float the aircraft carrier off the coast of Belgium at this rate. Just park it there.

[Yellow Fever 3,793]

7 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

The contract does not state quantities and delivery dates. I will will grant you it states an overall 300 million doses and option for an extra 100 million. But beyond that the contract states that the EU will submit a list of where it wants deliveries made and when, for AZ's approval based on AZ's Best Reasonable Efforts. Here's a quotation from AZ CEO as to why the contract doesn't have hard-coded quantities and dates:

“… we didn’t commit with the EU, by the way. It’s not a commitment we have to Europe: it’s a best effort, we said we are going to make our best effort. The reason why we said that is because Europe at the time wanted to be supplied more or less at the same time as the UK, even though the contract was signed three months later. So we said, “ok, we’re going to do our best, we’re going to try, but we cannot commit contractually because we are three months behind UK”.”

They are in the contract just redacted by AZ from this release. However they have been published elsewhere. Dates and quantities.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

1 minute ago, Yellow Fever said:

They are in the contract just redacted by AZ from this release. However they have been published elsewhere. Dates and quantities.

Could you kindly point me to the section number of the contract?

[ricardo 7,395]

4 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Could you kindly point me to the section number of the contract?

Big Pharma employs lawyers and contract writers on ten thousand quid an hour. I'd lay money they have little to worry about.

[The Real Buh 3,444]

1 minute ago, ricardo said:

Big Pharma employs lawyers and contract writers on ten thousand quid an hour. I'd lay money they have little to worry about.

If the EU started looking for a lawyer today they might have an agreement in about a year.

useless

[ricardo 7,395]

😀

[Well b back 3,217]

Don’t shoot the messenger, this is The EU part of the contract. Please note I have made no comments either way just copy and pasted the contract as released.

 

[Tetteys Jig 830]

Must admit I was pleasantly surprised at how well our vaccine procurement had gone when our portfolio was initially announced last year. That was even when people were sniping at Hancock and co for not having an moderna ordered.

Much of the pandemic handling has been an absolute shambles with some sprinklings of good (furlough in early and a reasonable amount, encouragement of low risk outdoor activities etc.). I will never forgive their early lax response to this after it was clear what was going on in Italy and then we repeated it by keeping London in tier 2 for weeks while we let the  variant spread.

I was against Brexit and still am against brexit, but the problem wasn't ever really leaving the EU, it was more the slapdash, xenophobic driven, mystery box way it was all being sold and the blatant lies and deception from the leave campaign who admittedly did a better job than the complacent remain campaign who basically put their faith in "common sense".

As we know in football, you can be the best side in the world coming up against a proper big Sam brexit ball side but if you don't take their threat and will to win seriously enough, you're going to get burnt.

I have many friends that are from EU countries and enjoy regular trips to these countries and very much enjoy the culture and change of scenery and very much hope we can continue to do these things.

As with many things, it's never about the day to day people who want to just get on with their lives, it's always about the rich, powerful old white men at the top of the tree and its to my distain that both sides have contributed to this relationship breaking down.

I have laid a lot of blame rightfully so to our own old white men like Johnson and Farage and co however, the last week has really shown what the EU add to this disgusting power struggle. Macrons comments today are some of the worst I have ever heard from a leader of a developed western nation and could end up costing the lives of many people, not just in his own country. Germanys approach to its convoluted approval is astonishing as well, especially while they moan about not having enough of their agreed AZ/Oxford allocation.

I hope with the 3 recent additions to the vaccine portfolio that this sorts itself out somewhat by summer but i had desperately hoped that the 1 thing that us in the west wouldn't screw up would be rolling out the vaccine. I'm just glad that in UK we seem to be doing great so far! Whilst Sarah Gilbert and co remain the proper heroes, it looks like Kate Bingham and co deserve some credit in all this.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

13 minutes ago, ricardo said:

What did you expect? Its the EU that have introduced a political aspect into this. Don't  blame people who saw it coming. Its not as if we have only just discovered that those with no fear of the ballot box act in this way. 

But we don't know the full story surrounding the contract. What has been published seems to indicate that 100 million doses were ordered for March, after regulatory approval with another 300 million to follow.

AZ say they had culture problems in the Belgium laboratory so can only produce 25 million. But they say the arrangement was best effort.

I don't see where anybody concerned has done anything wrong. AZ wouldn't want to lose that batch and it wouldn't have mattered how many the EU ordered or when if the culture failed.

I still cannot see how you can reasonably point at the EU and say it is because of unelected bureaucrats when it was in fact nothing more than bad luck in a laboratory.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

5 minutes ago, ricardo said:

😀

I bet Ian Wright believes him😀

[ricardo 7,395]

8 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

 

I still cannot see how you can reasonably point at the EU and say it is because of unelected bureaucrats when it was in fact nothing more than bad luck in a laboratory.

That may indeed have been the initial problem, its the way they have acted since that is revealing. Any elected government pulling this schtick would start to see heads rolling by now.

I fully expect we will see the EU dialing it back shortly. They know they have overstepped the mark.

[Van wink 2,994]

24 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

Must admit I was pleasantly surprised at how well our vaccine procurement had gone when our portfolio was initially announced last year. That was even when people were sniping at Hancock and co for not having an moderna ordered.

Much of the pandemic handling has been an absolute shambles with some sprinklings of good (furlough in early and a reasonable amount, encouragement of low risk outdoor activities etc.). I will never forgive their early lax response to this after it was clear what was going on in Italy and then we repeated it by keeping London in tier 2 for weeks while we let the  variant spread.

I was against Brexit and still am against brexit, but the problem wasn't ever really leaving the EU, it was more the slapdash, xenophobic driven, mystery box way it was all being sold and the blatant lies and deception from the leave campaign who admittedly did a better job than the complacent remain campaign who basically put their faith in "common sense".

As we know in football, you can be the best side in the world coming up against a proper big Sam brexit ball side but if you don't take their threat and will to win seriously enough, you're going to get burnt.

I have many friends that are from EU countries and enjoy regular trips to these countries and very much enjoy the culture and change of scenery and very much hope we can continue to do these things.

As with many things, it's never about the day to day people who want to just get on with their lives, it's always about the rich, powerful old white men at the top of the tree and its to my distain that both sides have contributed to this relationship breaking down.

I have laid a lot of blame rightfully so to our own old white men like Johnson and Farage and co however, the last week has really shown what the EU add to this disgusting power struggle. Macrons comments today are some of the worst I have ever heard from a leader of a developed western nation and could end up costing the lives of many people, not just in his own country. Germanys approach to its convoluted approval is astonishing as well, especially while they moan about not having enough of their agreed AZ/Oxford allocation.

I hope with the 3 recent additions to the vaccine portfolio that this sorts itself out somewhat by summer but i had desperately hoped that the 1 thing that us in the west wouldn't screw up would be rolling out the vaccine. I'm just glad that in UK we seem to be doing great so far! Whilst Sarah Gilbert and co remain the proper heroes, it looks like Kate Bingham and co deserve some credit in all this.

 

“Emmanuel Macron claimed that the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine was "quasi-ineffective" for over-65s, just hours before it was approved for use on all adults in the EU.

In a press briefing in Paris on Friday afternoon, the French president said the jab “doesn't work the way we were expecting to”.

 

He also appeared to criticise the UK’s vaccine rollout strategy, which has so far resulted in more people being given a first dose than any other European country.

Mr Macron said: “The goal is not to have the biggest number of first injections ... When you have all the medical agencies and the industrialists who say you need two injections for it to work, a maximum of 28 days apart, which is the case with Pfizer/BioNTech; and you have countries whose vaccine strategy is to only administer one jab, I’m not sure that it’s very serious.”

[The Real Buh 3,444]

Apparently the EU are about to do an epic U turn after Boris called up Poundland Hillary! I kid you not!

[ricardo 7,395]

Boris statement.

The UK has legally binding agreements with vaccine suppliers and it would not expect the EU, as a friend and ally to do anything to disrupt the fullfilment of these contracts.

"As a friend and allay" 

 

[ricardo 7,395]

The U K government has been remarkably calm and sure footed through this episode.

Good to see at last.

[The Real Buh 3,444]

‘He expressed his grave concerns about the potential impact which the steps the EU has taken today on vaccine exports could have.’

Hes made the EU look total ****

just wait until the Americans have a dig at them 

[ricardo 7,395]

We will soon hear that it was all a mistake and some poor bloody junior minion will be blamed.

Edited January 29, 2021 by ricardo

[Tetteys Jig 830]

6 minutes ago, ricardo said:

The U K government has been remarkably calm and sure footed through this episode.

Good to see at last.

We're in a strong position having a reliable and effective home grown vaccine basically available to everyone it needs to be this year... why would we stoke the fire any more?

Always thought that the AZ/Oxford one was key to us as a country largely getting out of this mess this year as opposed to next year

[The Real Buh 3,444]

Article 16 to be withdrawn! Haha!

the absolute state of the EU

get wrecked, eurotrash!

[ricardo 7,395]

1 minute ago, ricardo said:

We will soon hear that it was all a mistake and some poor bloody junior minion will be blamed.

Ahh the gift of clairvoyance, 

That didnt take long🤣

[Herman 9,780]

Maybe the EU saw us ****ing it up at regular intervals and thought they'd give it a try. (Note to EU. It doesn't work.)

[The Real Buh 3,444]

2 minutes ago, Herman said:

Maybe the EU saw us ****ing it up at regular intervals and thought they'd give it a try. (Note to EU. It doesn't work.)

To see the remainers on here turn is delicious.

some have just flat out disappeared 🤣🤣

[Van wink 2,994]

9 minutes ago, ricardo said:

We will soon hear that it was all a mistake and some poor bloody junior minion will be blamed.

Maybe the same one that briefed the press that AZ was only 8% effective in over 65’s.

Oddly Macron seems to have been taken in by that one as well.