Corona Virus main thread

[Barbe bleu 827]

5 minutes ago, Van wink said:

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2021/01/11/article-16-of-the-ireland-northern-ireland-protocol-offers-no-quick-fix/
 

it’s pretty much introducing a border between Northern Ireland and the Rupublic

I really don't understand.  Has the EU/EU members states actually now imposed an export ban or is it just procedural at this point?

What would stop us doing the same,  keeping all AZ jabs produced here and asking Pfizer to provide vaccine from elsewhere to compensate?

This is all very nasty

[ricardo 7,395]

18 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Now I don’t know much about this but I happened to have radio 5 on on the way back. There were Unionists on there going mad saying Johnson said it would be really difficult to trigger section 16 yet it turns out the EU can do it seconds. I didn’t understand it all, but they didn’t sound happy.

It should tell you something.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

8 hours ago, horsefly said:

How stupid do you have to be to claim that money we payed into the EU as an oblgation of our membership was not thus EU money, but still our money merely  "redirected"? That this comes from the distorted brain of someone who laughably claims to be an "economist" makes it even more contemptible. It's on a par with your employer claiming the money she is obliged to pay to you for your labour is not your money at all but hers just redirected. Cretinous almost beyond belief.

I always used to tell my staff that their employer didn't pay their salaries. Their customers did.

Those working in the public sector might not understand this little revelation.

[ricardo 7,395]

15 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Hopefully the beginning of data showing the effect of the vaccine. 
There is a Zoe Webinar next week which is free, Tim Spectre is going to be analysing the data that they have on vaccination and infection rates. Details below.

 

 

ZOE still dropping anout 8% a day nationally.

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,189]

Brexit is done

Regarding covid, hopefully very soon the majority of the UK will be vaccinated. The majority of the EU will be vaccinated 3 or 4 months later, and hopefully the rest of the world will be vaccinated at some stage 

Then what will we have to argue about?

What stick can we find to smash over each others heads? 🤗

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,189]

4 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

I always used to tell my staff that their employer didn't pay their salaries. Their customers did.

Those working in the public sector might not understand this little revelation.

Customers generally have a choice of service providers 

I did my tax return a few days ago. If I  think the service I get from  HMRC is shít, can I go somewhere else next year?

[ricardo 7,395]

7 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

Brexit is done

Regarding covid, hopefully very soon the majority of the UK will be vaccinated. The majority of the EU will be vaccinated 3 or 4 months later, and hopefully the rest of the world will be vaccinated at some stage 

Then what will we have to argue about?

What stick can we find to smash over each others heads? 🤗

I expect it will be about how some have finally had the scales removed from their eyes.

 

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

8 hours ago, Herman said:

This is an important thread/article. Luckily most of the conspiracy theorists have disappeared but if there are STILL some with doubts of how serious this is please read.

 

When you were complaining that Johnson was the first PM to cancel Christmas since Oliver Cromwell (although strictly speaking Cromwell wasn't a PM), I took that to mean you were anti-Chrismas lockdown and hence you were in the conspiracy theorist camp. Perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying.

[ricardo 7,395]

13 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I really don't understand.  Has the EU/EU members states actually now imposed an export ban or is it just procedural at this point?

What would stop us doing the same,  keeping all AZ jabs produced here and asking Pfizer to provide vaccine from elsewhere to compensate?

This is all very nasty

I don't  expect us to sink to their level. If they want to chew their own **** off, let them.

[ricardo 7,395]

Even arch Remainers like Boulton can see whats happening.

[The Real Buh 3,444]

19 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

Brexit is done

Regarding covid, hopefully very soon the majority of the UK will be vaccinated. The majority of the EU will be vaccinated 3 or 4 months later, and hopefully the rest of the world will be vaccinated at some stage 

Then what will we have to argue about?

What stick can we find to smash over each others heads? 🤗

The EU is done

[Van wink 2,994]

20 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I really don't understand.  Has the EU/EU members states actually now imposed an export ban or is it just procedural at this point?

What would stop us doing the same,  keeping all AZ jabs produced here and asking Pfizer to provide vaccine from elsewhere to compensate?

This is all very nasty

As I understand it EU member states will be able to prevent vaccine leaving their country for export to listed non member states, which includes us, subject to certain conditions being met.

As for article 16 it’s invoked in this case to prevent free movement ( presumably only of vaccine ) across the Irish border.

That’s my understanding, but the status of NI was always going to an issue once this started kicking off.

[Van wink 2,994]

☹️

Edited January 29, 2021 by Van wink
Duplicate

[Yellow Fever 3,793]

19 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I really don't understand.  Has the EU/EU members states actually now imposed an export ban or is it just procedural at this point?

What would stop us doing the same,  keeping all AZ jabs produced here and asking Pfizer to provide vaccine from elsewhere to compensate?

This is all very nasty

It all just a threat at this point BB. It certainly ruffling a few feathers though. They wont ban exports of Pfizer - delieries will be tricky and slooow due to paperwork. Who knows how long it will take 

We'd be doing exactly the same if we were short of vaccines (and more so thought we had been cheated) and exporting what we did have. I'm amazed many can't grasp that here! Then again....

As I said earlier - some statesmanship required from Johnson. 

 

[The Real Buh 3,444]

2 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

It all just a threat at this point BB. It certainly ruffling a few feathers though. They wont ban exports of Pfizer - delieries will be tricky and slooow due to paperwork. Who knows how long it will take 

We'd be doing exactly the same if we were short of vaccines (and more so thought we had been cheated) and exporting what we did have. I'm amazed many can't grasp that here! Then again....

As I said earlier - some statesmanship required from Johnson. 

 

The absolute cope in this statement. You’d yank the vaccine out of your grandmothers arm and give it to budget Hillary Clinton wouldn’t you? Get some counselling.

Edited January 29, 2021 by The Real Buh

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

6 hours ago, Mark .Y. said:

I too hope that they can sort it out without all this public posturing etc.

I think there are possibly two key things around the dispute. Firstly it is the definition of "Best Reasonable Efforts" - FWIW my view of that is that surely it indicates AZ would do all they can to supply the contracted doses but could never 100% guarantee delivery, in reality anything could happen from staff strikes to a fire in a factory etc which might prevent delivery. Secondly, the question of whether doses were sent to the UK from European manufacturing sites - I guess they were, if they had been manufactured and the EU still had not approved the vaccine for use - what was AZ meant to do ?

Of course there may have been much else going on in the background that we will never learn about ............. 

This is the crux of the EU case, isn't it. They seem to be expecting AZ to have built up stocks for EU use in readiness for when the EU approved the vaccine. This is not a reasonable position when the contract doesn't stipulate exact delivery dates or delivery amounts but best reasonable efforts. From AZ POV the reasonable thing is to get stocks distributed to countries with whom they had a contract, approval and infrastructure in place to rollout the vaccine. The UK ticked all those boxes and getting the vaccine into arms rather than sitting in storage was the right thing to do.

[ricardo 7,395]

4 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

As I said earlier - some statesmanship required from Johnson. 

 

UVL is making that very easy for him.

He could just put up a cardboard cut out and still win hands down.😉

Edited January 29, 2021 by ricardo

[paul moy 235]

German press  praise 'Brexit Boris' and  lambast 'Junk Commission'  🤗:

 

[Van wink 2,994]

5 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

It all just a threat at this point BB. It certainly ruffling a few feathers though. They wont ban exports of Pfizer - delieries will be tricky and slooow due to paperwork. Who knows how long it will take 

We'd be doing exactly the same if we were short of vaccines (and more so thought we had been cheated) and exporting what we did have. I'm amazed many can't grasp that here! Then again....

As I said earlier - some statesmanship required from Johnson. 

 

All the regulatory requirements have already been put in place so that aspect certainly isn’t a threat.

It’s applying the pressure.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

So this has moved from the Brexit thread to the Covid thread.

To be honest, I'm not sure why people are spouting off. We do not know the real reason this crisis in Europe has happened. If you have an anti EU agenda then you will criticise them.

If you believe in the EU you may well think AZ is the culprit.

But in reality, despite our own arrogance, we know beggar all about it. That is why our Government has been good and keeping out of it.

However it is funny when the Government was getting a roasting a month ago, cries of not making it political in this crisis have suddenly turned turtle.

Think on. We are still at levels like the worst in the first wave. We are doing very well with vaccinations. but this isn't the end by any means. While we argue about Europe, which has nothing to do with us anymore, 1200+ died again. And the NHS is at breaking point.

[Yellow Fever 3,793]

4 minutes ago, ricardo said:

UVL is making that very easy for him.

He could just put up a cardboard cut out and still win hands down.😉

I appreciate you're apoplectic at the moment Ricardo  - as are many others - it's not your fault which is why this should have all been handled quietly behind close doors. The EU didn't expect AZ to fall over with deliveries and their contract states what it does (and yes it includes quantities and dates RTB) . Our contract has no bearing on that. The issue is first and foremost one for AZ. 

However, what you don't know cant hurt you.

[paul moy 235]

34 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

Brexit is done

Regarding covid, hopefully very soon the majority of the UK will be vaccinated. The majority of the EU will be vaccinated 3 or 4 months later, and hopefully the rest of the world will be vaccinated at some stage 

Then what will we have to argue about?

What stick can we find to smash over each others heads? 🤗

We don't need to do anything as the EU continually shoot themselves in the foot with their gun loaded with their own bitter jealous spite.  The more successes we have the more insane they will behave and gradually dismember themselves country by country.  Brexit is fantastic and this is lovely to watch. Pass the popcrn !!   🤗

[Yellow Fever 3,793]

8 minutes ago, Van wink said:

All the regulatory requirements have already been put in place so that aspect certainly isn’t a threat.

It’s applying the pressure.

Yes but they don't have to actually ban the exports. 

However you care to look at it its just a defensive move by the EU. Any other country or block would (indeed has to) to do just the same in their posiiton.

Time to chillout. Let cooler heads prevail.

[ricardo 7,395]

1 minute ago, Yellow Fever said:

I appreciate you're apoplectic at the moment Ricardo  - as are many others - it's not your fault which is why this should have all been handled quietly behind close doors. The EU didn't expect AZ to fall over with deliveries and their contract states what it does (and yes it includes quantities and dates RTB) . Our contract has no bearing on that. The issue is first and foremost one for AZ. 

However, what you don't know cant hurt you.

I'm not apoplectic, just somewhat surprised at how quickly they have revealed their true colours.

[ricardo 7,395]

1 minute ago, Yellow Fever said:

Yes but they don't have to actually ban the exports. 

However you care to look at it its just a defensive move by the EU. Any other country or block would (indeed has to) to do just the same in their posiiton.

Time to chillout. Let cooler heads prevail.

Indeed they have left it to individual governments.

passing the buck is easier than taking the blame.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

2 hours ago, Herman said:

As the contracts were signed before we officially left the EU I feel the only fair way is if we shared any made in the UK with our friends in Europe. I am sure some of our concerned citizens will understand.

If you think our former membership of a club is part of the criteria for assigning the stocks of vaccine due to us to others, then why not start with a club that we are still a member of and have been for far longer than our membership of the EU - namely the Commonwealth.

The Commonwealth is far more deserving of our help and consists of many poor countries at the back of the queue when it comes to vaccine delivery. Why do you think wealthy German pensioners deserve the vaccine more than poor Ugandan people?

[The Real Buh 3,444]

Remainers now appealing for calm as all their conceptions of the EU fall apart and even the guardian starts slagging them off 🤣🤣

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

53 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

Customers generally have a choice of service providers 

I did my tax return a few days ago. If I  think the service I get from  HMRC is shít, can I go somewhere else next year?

Sounds like an argument for privatisation to me.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Nobody seen the original title of this post? 

[The Real Buh 3,444]

2 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Nobody seen the original title of this post? 

Imagine trying to run distraction tactics for the EU for free. Pathetic.

€0.01 has been deposited in your account