Football matches an easy target?

[im spartacus canary 0]

I''ll take her over Blair any time Mrs miggins and yes we are in trouble in case you didn''t realise ☺but then you have always been a bury your head in the sand apologist throughout your time on the pink Un so perhaps you don''t

[93vintage 16]

Terrible events, but we''ve got to put this in perspective. 140 people dying is nothing compared to the 1 million+ deaths from 25 years of war in Iraq. There''s always a kind of double standard involved when incidents like this happen in the West when compared to war and acts of terrorism taking place in the East. Underneath it all is the idea that we''re more civilized and more worthy of sympathy than savage foreigners living in some foreign hell hole.If the West stopped interfering in the affairs of the East then we''d all be a lot better off. It''s funny how these muslim fundamentalist terrorists have the same enemies as us, ie Syria and Russia, yet don''t seem to turn against much more conventional enemies of Islam such as Israel.Once again we''ve armed terrorists and allowed them to wreck havoc when it''s suited our foreign policy objectives eg in Afghanistan, Iraq, Kosovo and Russia. But on the other hand we moan when these terrorists have turned against us, the effect of which is clearly to whip up an appetite for war.In an austere economic situation there''s a lot of tension and many crisies in the world. Countries and leaders are subjected to demonisation via propaganda campaigns and deceptive acts. There''s a lawlessness when it comes to military actions, clearly seen when considering that no Western country even bothered to ask Syria''s permission in order to conduct bombing campaigns on its sovereign territory.To sum up, recent events are very much like a low level World War before things really start to get going. Sadly people seem to be numb to the deception and propaganda which would inevitably precede it.

[kirku 1,338]

Absolutely agree with the above.

On the Russian issue, I actually think their foreign policy in regards to Syria is the most viable option.

[Van wink 2,994]

morty wrote the following post at 14/11/2015 8:57 PM:

How do you know this attack was planned in the middle east. Young Muslims are being radicalized in our own countries.

They have said one of the terrorists was a migrant, so does that maybe mean the rest were French citizens?

If European Muslims truly want to help and distance themselves from the radicals then radical preaching in mosques needs to stop.

The French President said so this morning. If this had been all planned in France their security service would have picked up some intel.

[mrs miggins 0]

im spartacus wrote the following post at 14/11/2015 10:52 PM:

I''ll take her over Blair any time Mrs miggins and yes we are in trouble in case you didn''t realise ☺but then you have always been a bury your head in the sand apologist throughout your time on the pink Un so perhaps you don''t

-----------------------------

Apologist- you having a laugh?

[Indy 3,314]

I don''t consider Russia as an enemy, we have a around 5 billion worth of exports a year to Russia itch some close ties in Oil & Gas, so not really an enemy, like China and others.

Russia has not declared war on the west, so a little bit different.

That said yep we did indeed get involved in the first war back in 1990 then again in the second gulf crises and now we are seeing the fight being allowed to come to our shores.

[Herman 9,820]

"im spartacus"

Being radical and hate preaching should be a crime. Thatcher may have got some things wrong but we wouldn''t be having this discussion with her like in charge.

Does that include people like Katie Hopkins and Britain First?

[mrs miggins 0]

Or even simply having the Sun and the Daily Mail

[kirku 1,338]

"I don''t consider Russia as an enemy, we have a around 5 billion worth of exports a year to Russia itch some close ties in Oil & Gas, so not really an enemy, like China and others.

Russia has not declared war on the west, so a little bit different."

Russia''s main foreign policy aim is to counter the west in general and NATO in particular.

[Essjayess 307]

The jihadi terrorist of today is a different animal to the terrorists of the 70s and 80s, most of them are suicide bombers who happily blow themselves up to take the innocent with them. At least that solves the worry of authorities who used to have to try and find them to get justice served. But the innocent  suffer as much as ever of course.Yes we will still have these days of terrible carnage, but it should in no way ever ruin or change our hard won freedoms, including freedom of religion and speech. I do sigh when i see some of the mindless comments online. These acts of terrorism should strengthen our resolve to hold on to what is dear to us.As to Syria, Iraq and the ISIL problem, let Russia and Iran deal with it.Europe as a whole, and for sure us here in the UK, need to sort out the migrant issue, which is a huge massive undertaking in itself. We have meddled in the middle east enough over the years. we have enough to sort out at home.I guess football grounds are no harder or easier targets than any other place where x amount of peaceful peoples  congregate for social functions. Sadly these murderous outrages are far to common but to put things into perspective. its been  10 years + since the UK had such a major attack such as Paris yesterday. I think we all know one will happen at sometime, and devastating as it always is for those involved, we carry on, because we have to, our freedoms in this land are more precious than gold dust.

[Gainer the Gopher 0]

Do gun laws in France obviously need to be tightened?

[Herman 9,820]

Shut it Donald.

[Crafty Canary 497]

Just imagine how secure we''d feel under Comrade Corbyn and his no deterrent policy!

[Herman 9,820]

That makes no sense whatsoever. I know it''s early but just think about it for a second.

[Daz Sparks 1,179]

[quote user="Crafty Canary"]Just imagine how secure we''d feel under Comrade Corbyn and his no deterrent policy![/quote]

Hmmm, and just how would a Trident nuclear missile help defeat IS?

[morty 0]

Theoretically, it would defeat them pretty comprehensively....

[Daz Sparks 1,179]

Doubtful. They are spread everywhere, living among innocent and non complicit civilians.

Nuclear weapons against terrorists are useless.

[morty 0]

You do know I wasn''t being entirely serious, right?

[Daz Sparks 1,179]

Hard to know that Morty, form a message board.

[Daz Sparks 1,179]

*from

[Feedthewolf 4,869]

I don''t for a minute advocate immediate Western retaliation, whether by increased bombing or land incursion, but IS is not as diffuse as it may seem. In fact, in simple terms, it''s more like a game of Risk - land grabbing to give itself a base on which to expand further. It''s only in the power vacuum left behind in the wake of Western interventions that IS has been given the perfect environment in which to flourish - building infrastructure in lawless areas which they take by force, then slowly and methodically taking key areas on the fringes of its controlled land.IS cannot be negotiated with, and will ruthlessly exploit any weaknesses. The two main problems with Western involvement, as I see them, are:1) Huge amounts of collateral damage and loss of innocent lives (the majority of those living under IS rule have been subjugated by fear and violence rather than sharing its caliphate ideology) will result from blanket bombing, which feeds into;2) Fear and mistrust of the West and its motives, thus perpetuating the radicalisation of previously moderate Muslims in a vicious cycle.The West can and should stand behind those moderate Islamic states who want to destroy IS, but ultimately the battle is between moderate Islam and radical Islam. We are trying to systematically destroy an enemy that we don''t even seem to understand.

[Crabbycanary3 994]

FTW - I cannot understand something that isn''t rational. Perhaps that is the basis of a ''Religious'' debate right there, which, of course, is what ISIS use as their foundation. The radicilisation is of weak minded/vunerable people, who have no direction/purpose, and that is something they seek in their lives.

If we keeping cutting the head off the boil (as in the killing of ISIS leader in Libya on Friday) then that will weaken them, and ultimately force the ''lesser'' souls to make mistakes, which will make the task ''easier'', but it will take time, and many innocent people will lose their lives in the meantime

[Feedthewolf 4,869]

There''s a lot of truth in your ''cutting off the head of the boil'' analogy - unlike Al Qaeda, which had lots of disparate and secretive ''cells'' thus making it a lot more difficult to completely destroy, IS has declared a caliphate, in which the caliph (al-Baghdadi) is revered as the ultimate leader and political and religious successor to the Prophet Muhammad. If someone can kill al-Baghdadi, that will greatly weaken IS - although the remaining leaders will be outraged and redouble their efforts, they will not be as galvanised. Caliph is not a title given lightly, and any caliph has to be from the same tribe (Quraysh) as Muhammad. If al-Baghdadi dies, IS may begin to implode, and have trouble even maintaining its current land, let alone expanding.

[Prince of Darkness 0]

I am a big fan of carpet bombing of Aleppo.

Isisl exist because of the support and the patronage of the local populous

[Herman 9,820]

Thanks for that incite Waveney. That''s that problem sorted.

[......and Smith must score. 1,357]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="Indy"]I''m not sure Morty, it''s not time to think of radicals as normal people committing a crime, why wait for the outcome why not remove the threat?

I know it''s not easy and might have some negative impact but surely it''s the only way to remove more being brainwashed into joining such daft ideology?

I''d go even further and police the Internet to remove all ISIS related websites if possible, I''m no IT expert ![/quote]Can you not see the bizarre Orwellian side to this, arresting someone for something they might do??And you want the internet censored too?I am pretty sure there isn''t an ISIS website where young muslims can visit so they can get radicalised.[/quote]

I would think most ISIS websites are under constant surveillance by the security forces anyway. Bomb making sites too.If you don''t want people on your tail you''ll be pretty stupid to visit any of them as I''m sure that many of the sites are set up by law enforcement agencies themselves.

[ellis206 0]

What happened in Paris was inevitable and it will happen in England soon as well. As I said earlier in the post, the people hastagging #refugeeswelcome and taking a big banner to Carrow Road etc now have blood on their hands. There was absolutely no screening or security process being followed, allowing god knows how many terrorists to come in to Europe, given 90% of the "refugees" were young men of my age, it doesn''t take a genius to work out what SOME of their intentions were. The political correctness brigade used to make me roll my eyes and laugh, now they could get me killed. That''s the harsh reality of it.

[Katie Borkins 1]

The only identified gunman so far is a French national, but don''t let the facts get in the way of bigotry.

[A Load of Squit 5,215]

[quote user="ellis206"]What happened in Paris was inevitable and it will happen in England soon as well. As I said earlier in the post, the people hastagging #refugeeswelcome and taking a big banner to Carrow Road etc now have blood on their hands. There was absolutely no screening or security process being followed, allowing god knows how many terrorists to come in to Europe, given 90% of the "refugees" were young men of my age, it doesn''t take a genius to work out what SOME of their intentions were. The political correctness brigade used to make me roll my eyes and laugh, now they could get me killed. That''s the harsh reality of it. [/quote]If we are to accept you premise then anyone who uses any facility that a terrorist exploits for their gain will have blood on their hands, that would be all of us who use this message board as the internet is one of their major tools. Looks like we could all get each other killed.Do you want to stop anything that a terrorist may expoit? It''s going to be a very big list.

[mrs miggins 0]

''the harsh reality of the situation''

Don''t say something incredibly stupid and then claim it as reality. Political correctness is not going to kill you, in fact it might teach you a few things.

There is no doubt that some terrorists will have gone through borders as ''refugees'' but don''t blame the attacks on the people accepting refugees into their country, blame it on the terrorists -(state the obvious I know).