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Katie Borkins

Football matches an easy target?

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The dreadful and cowardly attack on Britons (holidaymakers from other countries too) in Tunisia raises again the issue of heland security and specifically fan safety at football matches. When we see "British" people blowing themselves up, or fleeing abroad to join IS, do you ever worry that one day some tin pot wannabe Jihadi will attack a crowd at a football match?

I can''t see how sufficient policing could be provided to prevent this and if it did happen, I believe a civil war of sorts would begin.

Paranoid?

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Fact is you can never entirely predict, or defend against terrorism. You just have to get on with your life.The day you cower indoors, hiding from the world, is the day they have won.

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Any place is an easy target. Why they like to target planes with all the security is beyond me. They could walk into a cinema giving that as one example and a beach which could be any public place where small or large numbers of people gather. Football matches yes why not.

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no more a target

than the London marathon

race event

concerts

rush hour in London

rugby

cricket

stop scare mongering and moaning and just get on with life

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We need to have faith in our Secret Services with their (legal) ability of interception and tapping and with their highly sophisticated network of informers and agents on the ground masquerading as militants.

This will never be a 100% guarantee of safety, but has worked well so far if you are to believe accounts of the number of plots foiled already.

This is why I have personally come to detest wishy washy liberal idealists, certain civil rights activists and especially the "Whistle Blower" currently hiding in Moscow.

Like CCTV cameras etc., a certain possible invasion of our privacy is a necessary factor of living in this World in the 21st. Century.

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Suspicions should be aroused when Norwich City''s newest supporters group with a dodgy flag are welcomed on to the pitch at half-time.

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Half time at football matches was used for public executions by the Taliban JS.

Those who have read "The Kite Runner" will recall an adulteress being stoned to death on one occasion (and this was beyond fiction.)

You would get the lash for singing "On the ball City. "

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[quote user="BroadstairsR"]We need to have faith in our Secret Services with their (legal) ability of interception and tapping and with their highly sophisticated network of informers and agents on the ground masquerading as militants.

This will never be a 100% guarantee of safety, but has worked well so far if you are to believe accounts of the number of plots foiled already.

This is why I have personally come to detest wishy washy liberal idealists, certain civil rights activists and especially the "Whistle Blower" currently hiding in Moscow.

Like CCTV cameras etc., a certain possible invasion of our privacy is a necessary factor of living in this World in the 21st. Century.[/quote]Maybe instead of detesting the wishy-washy liberal idealists, your ire should be aimed at the idiots whose inept foreign policy decisions over the decades have lead us into the current situation.

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First of all, I''m not saying that I would stop going to football matches - just that the thought has crossed my mind that it is an obvious and relatively easy target.
And there is something about football as a British cultural fixture, and the fact that it tends to attract a largely male audience, that would make it an attractive potential target.

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[quote user="Herman "][quote user="BroadstairsR"]We need to have faith in our Secret Services with their (legal) ability of interception and tapping and with their highly sophisticated network of informers and agents on the ground masquerading as militants.

This will never be a 100% guarantee of safety, but has worked well so far if you are to believe accounts of the number of plots foiled already.

This is why I have personally come to detest wishy washy liberal idealists, certain civil rights activists and especially the "Whistle Blower" currently hiding in Moscow.

Like CCTV cameras etc., a certain possible invasion of our privacy is a necessary factor of living in this World in the 21st. Century.[/quote]Maybe instead of detesting the wishy-washy liberal idealists, your ire should be aimed at the idiots whose inept foreign policy decisions over the decades have lead us into the current situation.[/quote]Sorry but if you are implying that going to war in the gulf provoked the terrorists, and we should beat ourselves up about it then thats right up there with "She was wearing a short dress so was clearly asking for it M''lud"

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"Maybe instead of detesting the wishy-washy liberal idealists, your ire should be aimed at the idiots whose inept foreign policy decisions over the decades have lead us into the current situation."

I actually feel that there are many, many other factors other than just foreign policy decisions that have led us into the current situation Herman.

In this respect, I would not only just go back decades (including the siege of the US embassy in London and the emergence of Iran as an enemy of the West) but centuries.

Can we blame the Crusades then?

Or, more recently, our post war carving up of that entire area which took no account of religious or tribal factors?

Or even, the creation of Israel as a state?

The blame for it all extends way back further than Bush and Blair.

The current situation means that we have to protect ourselves using all resources and the wishy washies seem to want to this, IMO.

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[quote user="BroadstairsR"]Oh for an edit.[/quote]No need Broady. Just click the preview button before you post and you can edit from there. [:)]

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"No need Broady. Just click the preview button before you post and you can edit from there."

I know, but I am usually so anxious to get my spurious opinions published that I forget that facility.

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[quote user="BroadstairsR"]"No need Broady. Just click the preview button before you post and you can edit from there." I know, but I am usually so anxious to get my spurious opinions published that I forget that facility.[/quote]

 

That kind of anxiety can cause you to pee in your pants before you get into the facility.

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[quote user="BroadstairsR"]"No need Broady. Just click the preview button before you post and you can edit from there."

I know, but I am usually so anxious to get my spurious opinions published that I forget that facility.[/quote]“Impatience can cause wise people to do foolish things. ”

Janette Oke

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Yeah I''m sure illegally invading countries, killing innocent people and the vilification of Muslims in the media (and the other things..) has NOTHING AT ALL with radicals wanting to harm us.

Lol.

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[quote user="BroadstairsR"]

Can we blame the Crusades then?

Or, more recently, our post war carving up of that entire area which took no account of religious or tribal factors?

Or even, the creation of Israel as a state? [/quote]

Yes to all those and more.  The crusades were to recscue Christian sites from the muslims, so this conflict has been around for centuries.  It is  however only the last few years when travel is so much easier, the mish mash of cultures and the mixing of populations that hs alllowed this to become a world wide problem and something we are all aware of all the time.   Also, the middle east question that has raged since the middle ages, was only exacebated more by the creation of Israel - which was a political and financially motivated move by the allies during the First World War (Balfour Declaration 1917) to get support for the war effort from influential Jews around the world.  

The middle eastern problem and the islamic issue is something that is a by-product of the arrogance of the west in treating what many years ago were seen as a bunch of primitive tribesmen rampaging around the desert.  That attitude has led to the hatred that exists in the extreme parts of Islam.  True Muslims and true Christians abhor violence and want a peaceful co-existence............unfortunately, history shows that that is not enough, because the political forces in the west are actually the driving force of the conflict through it''s actions and only perpetuate the hard liners.  Time after time over many, many years, we meddle in the middle east , usually at great cost and to no real forward movement, only ending up creating further problems elsewhere. IS and extremist groups are the result of this. The IRA were a result of Britain meddling in Ireland centuries ago, when it was a completely separate country............there are always reasons on both sides why terrorism arises.  

Fortunately, misplaced and futile terrorism can never win (the IRA long ceased to have any real point by the time peace was sorted) and present day terrorists have no real purpose and will never get anywhere apart from the occasional atrocity if the forces against them are strong enough.  Each time there is an arocity by terrorists, all that is created is more determination not to let terrorism succeed.

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"Yeah I''m sure illegally invading countries, killing innocent people and ..."

You have, of course, quite accurately described Saddam Hussein''s invasion of Kuwait. Accredited by some as the root cause of the current problems along with some other smallish matters like gassing minorities, torture chambers, summary executions and the ethnic cleansing of the Marsh Arabs and so on.

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="Herman "][quote user="BroadstairsR"]We need to have faith in our Secret Services with their (legal) ability of interception and tapping and with their highly sophisticated network of informers and agents on the ground masquerading as militants.

This will never be a 100% guarantee of safety, but has worked well so far if you are to believe accounts of the number of plots foiled already.

This is why I have personally come to detest wishy washy liberal idealists, certain civil rights activists and especially the "Whistle Blower" currently hiding in Moscow.

Like CCTV cameras etc., a certain possible invasion of our privacy is a necessary factor of living in this World in the 21st. Century.[/quote]Maybe instead of detesting the wishy-washy liberal idealists, your ire should be aimed at the idiots whose inept foreign policy decisions over the decades have lead us into the current situation.[/quote]Sorry but if you are implying that going to war in the gulf provoked the terrorists, and we should beat ourselves up about it then thats right up there with "She was wearing a short dress so was clearly asking for it M''lud"[/quote]It sure as didn''t help matters. The anti-west etc. terror cells have been around for a long time, but with our actions they have managed to recruit millions more very angry foot-soldiers to their cause. The Afghan and Iraq wars were the best recruiting sargeants they could possibly have dreamt of.

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Our security services have more money to spend than ever before, and I''m tired of reading all the criticism they get for ultimately trying to preserve our way of life. Blaming our country''s foreign military interventions for the spate of terrorist attacks is just another example of people confusing cause with effect and seeking a scapegoat.I''m sick of hearing all the talk of when the next attack will be. Right now I''m sure the police and MI5 are working 24/7 behind the scenes with their network of informants and double agents in order to try and arrange the next attrocity.They obviously need time in order to make it look genuine and tenuously link the whole thing to the Assad regime. Only then will we have the moral authority to bomb Syria and loot it''s oil in order to try and prop up our heavily indebted economy.Just be patient and less quick to criticise, as MI5 and M16 are working their socks off to preserve our precious celebrity-obsessed and consumer-oriented way of life.

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[quote user="BroadstairsR"]"Maybe instead of detesting the wishy-washy liberal idealists, your ire should be aimed at the idiots whose inept foreign policy decisions over the decades have lead us into the current situation."

I actually feel that there are many, many other factors other than just foreign policy decisions that have led us into the current situation Herman.

In this respect, I would not only just go back decades (including the siege of the US embassy in London and the emergence of Iran as an enemy of the West) but centuries.

Can we blame the Crusades then?

Or, more recently, our post war carving up of that entire area which took no account of religious or tribal factors?

Or even, the creation of Israel as a state?

The blame for it all extends way back further than Bush and Blair.

The current situation means that we have to protect ourselves using all resources and the wishy washies seem to want to this, IMO.[/quote]No, the wishy-washies want to stop the Government from using our fear of terrorism against us, bringing in draconian, anti-freedom laws and turning this country into the sort of state that a lot of good people died fighting against.

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"Just be patient and less quick to criticise, as MI5 and M16 are working their socks off to preserve our precious celebrity-obsessed and consumer-oriented way of life."

Oh, that it should be so easy as just preserving our "precious celebrity-obsessed and consumer-orientated way of life," as this description neither sums up, to any extent whatsoever, the values of either my entire family or those of my friends, and is insultingly facile.

Using a low common denominator does not make a credible case.

Despite our perceived faults most of us, by far, would never, ever consider planting a bomb in a public place or gunning down strangers on a beach.

We deserve constant protection from those who would.

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Committing an effective act of terrorism such as is mentioned in the op takes much more time, effort, planning, organization and money than many seem to be implying here.

If it was all that simple, it would have be going on with regularity.

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[quote user="Herman "][quote user="morty"][quote user="Herman "][quote user="BroadstairsR"]We need to have faith in our Secret Services with their (legal) ability of interception and tapping and with their highly sophisticated network of informers and agents on the ground masquerading as militants.

This will never be a 100% guarantee of safety, but has worked well so far if you are to believe accounts of the number of plots foiled already.

This is why I have personally come to detest wishy washy liberal idealists, certain civil rights activists and especially the "Whistle Blower" currently hiding in Moscow.

Like CCTV cameras etc., a certain possible invasion of our privacy is a necessary factor of living in this World in the 21st. Century.[/quote]Maybe instead of detesting the wishy-washy liberal idealists, your ire should be aimed at the idiots whose inept foreign policy decisions over the decades have lead us into the current situation.[/quote]Sorry but if you are implying that going to war in the gulf provoked the terrorists, and we should beat ourselves up about it then thats right up there with "She was wearing a short dress so was clearly asking for it M''lud"[/quote]It sure as didn''t help matters. The anti-west etc. terror cells have been around for a long time, but with our actions they have managed to recruit millions more very angry foot-soldiers to their cause. The Afghan and Iraq wars were the best recruiting sargeants they could possibly have dreamt of.[/quote]So we should just turn our backs on our fellow man when atrocities are committed? The already mentioned ethnic cleansing of the marsh arabs, by use of chemical weapons being a good example. And the Afghan war was because, put simply, that the source of a lot of world terror, and vile acts, started there.Of course we could have done nothing. But the terror would have come to us sooner or later anyway.

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[quote user="Herman "][quote user="BroadstairsR"]"Maybe instead of detesting the wishy-washy liberal idealists, your ire should be aimed at the idiots whose inept foreign policy decisions over the decades have lead us into the current situation."

I actually feel that there are many, many other factors other than just foreign policy decisions that have led us into the current situation Herman.

In this respect, I would not only just go back decades (including the siege of the US embassy in London and the emergence of Iran as an enemy of the West) but centuries.

Can we blame the Crusades then?

Or, more recently, our post war carving up of that entire area which took no account of religious or tribal factors?

Or even, the creation of Israel as a state?

The blame for it all extends way back further than Bush and Blair.

The current situation means that we have to protect ourselves using all resources and the wishy washies seem to want to this, IMO.[/quote]No, the wishy-washies want to stop the Government from using our fear of terrorism against us, bringing in draconian, anti-freedom laws and turning this country into the sort of state that a lot of good people died fighting against. [/quote]I think you are confusing our government with the American one there.

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="Herman "][quote user="morty"][quote user="Herman "][quote user="BroadstairsR"]We need to have faith in our Secret Services with their (legal) ability of interception and tapping and with their highly sophisticated network of informers and agents on the ground masquerading as militants.

This will never be a 100% guarantee of safety, but has worked well so far if you are to believe accounts of the number of plots foiled already.

This is why I have personally come to detest wishy washy liberal idealists, certain civil rights activists and especially the "Whistle Blower" currently hiding in Moscow.

Like CCTV cameras etc., a certain possible invasion of our privacy is a necessary factor of living in this World in the 21st. Century.[/quote]Maybe instead of detesting the wishy-washy liberal idealists, your ire should be aimed at the idiots whose inept foreign policy decisions over the decades have lead us into the current situation.[/quote]Sorry but if you are implying that going to war in the gulf provoked the terrorists, and we should beat ourselves up about it then thats right up there with "She was wearing a short dress so was clearly asking for it M''lud"[/quote]It sure as didn''t help matters. The anti-west etc. terror cells have been around for a long time, but with our actions they have managed to recruit millions more very angry foot-soldiers to their cause. The Afghan and Iraq wars were the best recruiting sargeants they could possibly have dreamt of.[/quote]So we should just turn our backs on our fellow man when atrocities are committed? The already mentioned ethnic cleansing of the marsh arabs, by use of chemical weapons being a good example. And the Afghan war was because, put simply, that the source of a lot of world terror, and vile acts, started there.Of course we could have done nothing. But the terror would have come to us sooner or later anyway.[/quote]How many years did it take for us to intervene in Saddam''s ethnic cleansing of marsh Arabs and Kurds? The governments didn''t give a toss about them until it was handy propaganda to back up a very dodgy reason for war.Afghanistan was a very poor country which we flattened back to the stone age. Instead of us staying and cleaning up after us, we installed another dodgy government, filled with the scumbags that lead to the rise of the Taliban, and went off to flatten another country. And lo and behold the Taliban are back and the country is still a disaster zone. How many of our men and how much money have we lost just to end up back where we are. It was a disaster. We not only stirred up an already lively hornet''s nest, we gave it a size 10 booting for good measure.

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="Herman "][quote user="BroadstairsR"]"Maybe instead of detesting the wishy-washy liberal idealists, your ire should be aimed at the idiots whose inept foreign policy decisions over the decades have lead us into the current situation."

I actually feel that there are many, many other factors other than just foreign policy decisions that have led us into the current situation Herman.

In this respect, I would not only just go back decades (including the siege of the US embassy in London and the emergence of Iran as an enemy of the West) but centuries.

Can we blame the Crusades then?

Or, more recently, our post war carving up of that entire area which took no account of religious or tribal factors?

Or even, the creation of Israel as a state?

The blame for it all extends way back further than Bush and Blair.

The current situation means that we have to protect ourselves using all resources and the wishy washies seem to want to this, IMO.[/quote]No, the wishy-washies want to stop the Government from using our fear of terrorism against us, bringing in draconian, anti-freedom laws and turning this country into the sort of state that a lot of good people died fighting against. [/quote]I think you are confusing our government with the American one there.[/quote]Not as bad as the Yanks but we were on the road, especially under New Labour.

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[quote user="Herman "][quote user="morty"][quote user="Herman "][quote user="morty"][quote user="Herman "][quote user="BroadstairsR"]We need to have faith in our Secret Services with their (legal) ability of interception and tapping and with their highly sophisticated network of informers and agents on the ground masquerading as militants.

This will never be a 100% guarantee of safety, but has worked well so far if you are to believe accounts of the number of plots foiled already.

This is why I have personally come to detest wishy washy liberal idealists, certain civil rights activists and especially the "Whistle Blower" currently hiding in Moscow.

Like CCTV cameras etc., a certain possible invasion of our privacy is a necessary factor of living in this World in the 21st. Century.[/quote]Maybe instead of detesting the wishy-washy liberal idealists, your ire should be aimed at the idiots whose inept foreign policy decisions over the decades have lead us into the current situation.[/quote]Sorry but if you are implying that going to war in the gulf provoked the terrorists, and we should beat ourselves up about it then thats right up there with "She was wearing a short dress so was clearly asking for it M''lud"[/quote]It sure as didn''t help matters. The anti-west etc. terror cells have been around for a long time, but with our actions they have managed to recruit millions more very angry foot-soldiers to their cause. The Afghan and Iraq wars were the best recruiting sargeants they could possibly have dreamt of.[/quote]So we should just turn our backs on our fellow man when atrocities are committed? The already mentioned ethnic cleansing of the marsh arabs, by use of chemical weapons being a good example. And the Afghan war was because, put simply, that the source of a lot of world terror, and vile acts, started there.Of course we could have done nothing. But the terror would have come to us sooner or later anyway.[/quote]How many years did it take for us to intervene in Saddam''s ethnic cleansing of marsh Arabs and Kurds? The governments didn''t give a toss about them until it was handy propaganda to back up a very dodgy reason for war.Afghanistan was a very poor country which we flattened back to the stone age. Instead of us staying and cleaning up after us, we installed another dodgy government, filled with the scumbags that lead to the rise of the Taliban, and went off to flatten another country. And lo and behold the Taliban are back and the country is still a disaster zone. How many of our men and how much money have we lost just to end up back where we are. It was a disaster. We not only stirred up an already lively hornet''s nest, we gave it a size 10 booting for good measure.[/quote]Ah right, all our own fault then, we deserve everything we get[Y]

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