Where did it all go wrong? A theorem on Chris Hughton's time at Norwich City

[thebigfeller 200]

Picture the scene. It''s 11 December 2012. The football club you play for has enjoyed fully three-and-a-half years of meteoric success, rocketing from second bottom of League 1 to 11th in the Premier League, and now faces its first Cup quarter-final in fully 17 years.

In the summer, your talismanic, inspirational manager, whom many of you still pine for and certainly credit a huge amount of your success to, departed for pastures new; but after a difficult start under the new man, you''re 10 matches unbeaten - a run which included beating Arsenal, Man Utd, and knocking Tottenham out of this very tournament via a second win at White Hart Lane inside 6 months.

At the weekend, your burgeoning confidence was on display as you hit 4 at Swansea - the talk of the entire country until now - and secured a first away league win of the season, through an at times dazzling performance.

Deep down, though, you know that you''re about to smash into a glass ceiling. The top 6 or 7 clubs in England will always be out of sight: top of the bottom half is, surely, about as good as it can possibly get. As players, you can''t win the league; can''t ever hope to play in the Champions League; and very few can aspire to some day appearing at a World Cup either.

You also know that domestic Cup competiitions don''t mean what they once did in England - but many of you still dream of playing and winning something at Wembley. In essence, it''s the absolute summit of your ambitions; and those of 95% of your fellow pros too. And this tournament has opened up very invitingly indeed.

Only one true big gun, misfiring Chelsea, remain; one other big club, Arsenal. have a habit of playing a weakened side in this event, and with their never-ending capacity to choke when it matters, they don''t scare you one bit anyway. After that, that''s it: it''s wide open. Anyone''s tournament. And after all the success you''ve enjoyed, many of you really believe that the trophy, glory at Wembley, and legendary status at the club are going to be yours.

Standing in your way is, irony of ironies, the very man who guided you to so much success in the first place; but Paul Lambert is struggling at his new club, and however much you all miss him, you''re all desperate to put one over him and prove there is vibrant life at Norwich City after Lambo. Victory tonight will also vindicate the new manager''s more considered approach, and allow the whole club to move on and leave Lambert firmly in the past.

The promising position you''ve developed in the league means that, surely, any relegation concerns can already be laid to rest; it''s time to throw the kitchen sink at this quarter-final. You are just two steps from Wembley.

Yet remarkably, the new man in charge, Chris Hughton, while not making wholesale changes, chooses this of all nights to change your successful formation; make three changes to the line-up (all of which clearly weaken it); go with four in the middle against Aston Villa''s five; and most bafflingly of all, leaves your best, most influential player, Wes Hoolahan, on the sidelines. He''s chosen what you all regard as a massive game and huge opportunity to... experiment.

You still go out there and play as well as the system and personnel allow: you take the lead, and it''s 1-1 with only 11 minutes left. But three quick Villa goals kill your chances, leave your hitherto superb defensive record with a ruddy great scratch on it, and your dreams - realisable so rarely for players of your level in modern football - are shattered. Not through anything you''ve done wrong - but your manager''s decisions, and apparent desire to treat this hugely important game like no more than an each-way bet.

As Lambert gallivants along the touchline with every Villa goal, again you can''t help but recall all those good times under him; and suddenly, the doubts which you''ve always harboured about Hughton spring to the surface. Doubts which will never be shaken off again.

Before the night is out, it gets even worse, as Arsenal are eliminated; and the final indignity is reserved for the semi-final draw, which would have pitted you against League 2 opponents. A League 2 side - in a Cup semi-final!

Now, instead of that tantalising prospect galvanising you over Christmas and beyond, you''re left staring at a long, hard league campaign in which you know you can''t get much higher than you already are. Hughton''s cost you this chance: you''ll never truly believe in his methods again.

You do at least win your next match, but scarcely convincingly against opponents mired in the bottom three: in fact, you''re hanging on at the end. And all of a sudden, you''re sliding down the table: performances deteriorating, rigor mortis beginning to set in.

As Swansea - the one Premier League opponent who you have an Indian sign over, a team who are more scared of you than you are of them - lift the League Cup at Wembley, it only brings things into still starker focus: it could''ve been you. It should''ve been you. But your manager cost you that once-in-a-career chance; and all of a sudden, a hitherto relentlessly upwardly mobile club has stalled. In fact, it''s gone into reverse.

New players are signed, much hope is harboured; but the slide continues. All that precious momentum is long gone; now, there''s only toil. Gruel. not caviar; hemlock, not champagne. One game, one measly team selection, undid everything; ever since - fully 13 months now - you''ve displayed relegation form.

Who says Cup competitions don''t matter? You know they do; and with him now on the verge of losing his job after another Cup exit (in fact, every single Cup exit since that fateful night has been a complete humiliation: as though you''re all still reliving the nightmare), maybe even Hughton finally does too.

[Ray 111]

Bigfeller,

Well done, I thoroughly enjoyed this, very well written Sir, almost brought a tear to my eye.

I hadn''t seen the Villa Cup defeat as the start of the negativity, or more to the point hadn''t really given it too much thought, so thank you.

Whether I agree or not, and I think I still want to think about it, this was one of the most enjoyable and interesting posts I''ve ever read, and I better add "in my opinion" just to avaoid being challenged on my statement.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Spot on, BF.But for a more succinct explanation look no further than the last line in Hughton''s interview last night."We''re not defending well".No sh!t sherlock.  And, in case you hadn''t noticed, we''re not scoring any goals either.Just might be the nub of Chris'' problem?

[mrdi 411]

Great post.

For me, it went wrong when Petric put Fulham 2-0 up after 41 minutes on 18th August 2012.

Our unbeaten run flattered to deceive. Our final league position put a false sheen on the season.

But symbolically, you may well have pointed to a very important moment.

[ron obvious 1,711]

My theory is that Hughton is a control freak.

He seems to instil the idea that, if the players are neat & tidy enough, hold their positions, do not get over enthusiastic & commit themselves, then, with patience, the goals will come.

They don''t.

What seems to result is a sort of false sense of self confidence - if I do this move in such-&-such a way, as I was told to do, then we must prevail. Football by numbers. Additionally, players like Bassong & Fer find it all too easy to not put the effort in, to simply do the minimum required by The Plan.

Watching ManC play the other night brought home to me how much more effort & verve their far more gifted players put in - they are very aware that if they don''t give their all every week, they''re out, no matter how gifted.

I''ve said before that orderly progression up the field seems to be our main idea, unfortunately without much idea what to do when you''ve got there.

I suppose you could say my theory is that Hughton is too theoretical. He cannot harness the unexpected, cannot deal with the unpredictable.

You need that to be a good manager.

I think he has to go. BUT his replacement HAS TO BE BETTER. Therein lies the difficulty.

[LostTheFaith 0]

Great post but to say we have been in relegation form for over a year is over dramatic. We are in a position in the table that we would expect to be. 3 points off 11th.

[Tetteys Jig 851]

Look at our form since that game, it''s relegation form, no matter how you look at it.

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,462]

Nice post.

Watching Lambert on the pitch that night was difficult and - whilst your theory may be a stretch for some - I confess that I instinctively felt the bursting of a bubble that night, a deep deflation amongst players and fans, coupled with the re-salting of old flame wounds that never healed on the terraces.

[Hannibal II 0]

Two things have done for Hughton

1. Results, simply not good enough

2. Style of play. Simply not good enough

If one was good you can except the other but never both.

[alex_ncfc 686]

[quote user="KeepTheFaith"]Great post but to say we have been in relegation form for over a year is over dramatic. We are in a position in the table that we would expect to be. 3 points off 11th.[/quote]

 

I believe that I read we have won NINE games since the end of that unbeaten run in December 2012, and lost 21. That, my friend, is very much relegation form in my view.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

Great to see you posting Shaun and I hope things are good with you.

Cast your mind back to August 2009 when we were all glad to see the back of poor old Gunny. The best names we could come up with as replacements were the likes of Boothroyd, Tilson and Robins. The appointment of Lambert came out of the blue and from that moment the new board walked on water. So then when Lambert left full trust was given to the board to find a replacement. No one doubted McNally would have a plan B so when Hughton was appointed nearly supported it and immediately got behind him.

Now it seems the board and particularly McNally''s reputation is in tatters. He is no longer the man with the golden touch and the same confidence will not greet Hughton''s successor whenever it happens and whoever it is.

I am convinced Lambert was a once in a lifetime fit for this club. And when Hughton leaves or is pushed the next managerial appointment will be the lottery it always was. If this manager or the next manager don''t turn this around the board will be right back in the fans firing line where they were when Bowkett and McNally were appointed.

[Fromage Frais 14]

We just don''t go for it when your players are not a good as the opponents you need to bully, harass and get in their faces.

I see Marcelo Biesla being mentioned on this forum Lambert actually uses a lot of pages from his manual overloading in attack, width and hunting in packs from the front fording mistakes which lead to goals. This system makes players look good as they have options they don''t need to be mega fast as they attack from the front not collect the ball and have to run 50m before they can put the cross in.

Yes you get the odd thrashing from teams who can move the ball quickly but really everyone else is for the taking and even the odd top team who are not on their game that day.

We play old fashioned containment based football with players who are not fast or powerful enough to contain the opposition. No wonder why we concede so many goals of the week/month its because we go back into shape and don''t harass enough.

I really feel sorry for RVW and Fer etc as who doesn''t want to go to Brazil, both players where in with a shot... joining norwich has clearly se them back.

Out for me never to late to change and get in Biesla himself.

[thebigfeller 200]

Yes. Totally.

He''s a very unusual kind of control freak, in that he''s a very nice guy: but his control freakery is driven by fear. Lambert was an instinctive, off-the-cuff kind of manager, always capable of mixing things up, and who always kept the players on their toes, Martin O''Neill-style.

Hughton? Hughton manages as if he''s behind the controls of a computer game. The way he always breaks things down in his post-match comments - "I thought our possession play was good... but we need to do more in that final third" - that just isn''t conducive to creating any real teamplay at all.

Even when we''ve supposedly played well this season, ie. Cardiff, for example, that''s not been my take on it. It''s all so bitty and disjointed. What is the style of this team? What is its identity? It doesn''t have one - and that''s the complete opposite to how it was under Lambert.

All season long - in fact, throughout Hughton''s time here - it''s been stop-start-stop-start-stop-start; and heck, we''re even like that during individual games, for heavens sake. Complete, fluent performances have been desperately thin on the ground: and in live matches, with something riding on it for both teams, we''ve not produced any since the Swansea game I mentioned.

[thebigfeller 200]

[quote user="thebigfeller"]Yes. Totally.

He''s a very unusual kind of control freak, in that he''s a very nice guy: but his control freakery is driven by fear. Lambert was an instinctive, off-the-cuff kind of manager, always capable of mixing things up, and who always kept the players on their toes, Martin O''Neill-style.

Hughton? Hughton manages as if he''s behind the controls of a computer game. The way he always breaks things down in his post-match comments - "I thought our possession play was good... but we need to do more in that final third" - that just isn''t conducive to creating any real teamplay at all.

Even when we''ve supposedly played well this season, ie. Cardiff, for example, that''s not been my take on it. It''s all so bitty and disjointed. What is the style of this team? What is its identity? It doesn''t have one - and that''s the complete opposite to how it was under Lambert.

All season long - in fact, throughout Hughton''s time here - it''s been stop-start-stop-start-stop-start; and heck, we''re even like that during individual games, for heavens sake. Complete, fluent performances have been desperately thin on the ground: and in live matches, with something riding on it for both teams, we''ve not produced any since the Swansea game I mentioned.[/quote]

Should explain that was in response to ron obvious above.

I''d add that the reason I focused on that Cup game v Villa so much is that Hughton''s approach - so joyless, so corporate, so based around the be-all and end-all of 17th place by whatever means - was encapsulated by him not going hell for leather and throwing everything at an opportunity of actually winning something; actually achieving something meaningful and historic.

Meaning that the players, few of whom had been truly convinced by him to begin with, were just totally turned off. In life, we all need goals; we all need excitement; we all need to be able to get out of bed in the morning with a spring in our step, feeling good about the challenges ahead.

By approaching that Villa game in the way he did, Hughton simply removed any sense of excitement from his players. No wonder our football''s been so lacking in ideas and passion ever since.

[TheRock 192]

Awesome post. [:D] Two things i must point out though:1] We beat spurs 2-1 in the league cup at FCR, not white hart lane (remember the ticket prices? lol)2] The ball numbers for the semi-final of the cup meant we would have drawn Swansea, not Bradford. The balls were assigned alphabettically.

[thebigfeller 200]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]Great to see you posting Shaun and I hope things are good with you.

Cast your mind back to August 2009 when we were all glad to see the back of poor old Gunny. The best names we could come up with as replacements were the likes of Boothroyd, Tilson and Robins. The appointment of Lambert came out of the blue and from that moment the new board walked on water. So then when Lambert left full trust was given to the board to find a replacement. No one doubted McNally would have a plan B so when Hughton was appointed nearly supported it and immediately got behind him.

Now it seems the board and particularly McNally''s reputation is in tatters. He is no longer the man with the golden touch and the same confidence will not greet Hughton''s successor whenever it happens and whoever it is.

I am convinced Lambert was a once in a lifetime fit for this club. And when Hughton leaves or is pushed the next managerial appointment will be the lottery it always was. If this manager or the next manager don''t turn this around the board will be right back in the fans firing line where they were when Bowkett and McNally were appointed.[/quote]Hi NN! Long time, etc... Was Lambert a once in a lifetime fit? Maybe; he''s certainly the greatest NCFC manager of my lifetime, and probably ever. But it''s defeatist to take the view that we can never hope to get those times back under someone else - and what worries me, as it does many, many others, is the way we''ve returned to that default defeatism and timidity over the last year or so.I don''t know what it is about this club whereby it dithers so damn much. Is the manager getting the most of the players/resources at his disposal? Demonstrably not; and because he''s demonstrably not, he should be long gone by now. He should''ve been gone after the disastrous double-header in Manchester.By dithering so long, the board have given themselves fewer and fewer outs. It might even already be too late for a new man to come in and turn things round: our run-in is a thing from hell, the last 6 games - never mind just the last 4. This season has reminded me hugely of 05/6: Worthington so often a game from the sack, fans divided and turning on each other, the atmosphere around the club descending towards something increasingly poisonous and wholly counter-productive - but the board just would not act.The truth is, no manager should ever be a game from the sack. He''s either the right man or the wrong man: there''s no in-between, and one game tells you nothing. I find it incomprehensible that they are apparently satisfied with the job Hughton''s doing; we didn''t spend all that dosh in the summer to get worse, but we have. So many other clubs in the bottom half have reacted and made the decision; we haven''t. It''s pathetic.And yes, any new manager represents a gamble (not a lottery, NN: a gamble; in which it''s up to those taking that punt to do their research thoroughly and reduce the odds on it succeeding as far as possible); but it''s far, far more of a gamble to keep CH in charge now. We''re 15th in the Premier League, with a huge catchment area, great youth system, superb stadium and facilities, excellent finances and a tremendous, loyal support. There''s tons of hugely talented managers across Europe who''d love a job like that in a league as high profile as this. Why can''t we do as Southampton or Cardiff did, and think outside the box for a change? Why is it always the same old conservative, negative, "what we have we hold" thought processes? What''s happened to the boldness which characterised this club under Lambert, and under McNally?Even he seems to have succumbed to the Norwich disease now. It''s hugely depressing and just not good enough at all.

[thebigfeller 200]

[quote user="TheRock"]Awesome post. [:D] Two things i must point out though:1] We beat spurs 2-1 in the league cup at FCR, not white hart lane (remember the ticket prices? lol)2] The ball numbers for the semi-final of the cup meant we would have drawn Swansea, not Bradford. The balls were assigned alphabettically. [/quote]Fair point on both of those. But even then: Swansea, when we''re their bogey team, for the chance of Wembley? What an opportunity that would''ve been.

[Bill 1,788]

I have to wonder if there is not some strange clause in Hughton''s contract that has him sacked if we fall into the bottom three as McNally has talked of this as ''it''s ok at the moment'' ie out of the bottom three.I cannot believe that there has not been rumblings from some players, that the evidence on the pitch is not obvious to the board.Neither can I believe that the board can imagine that somehow Hughton will change his tactics and motivation skillsSomething doesn''t add up

[Tumbleweed 106]

On another thread two posters with some track record and credibility both referred to boardroom divisions. Looks like some on the Board want him gone but someone influential doesn''t- that must be either McN or Delia/MWJ. Until they sort that out and agree, nothing will happen. Meanwhile time and games run out.

[TheRock 192]

[quote user="thebigfeller"][quote user="TheRock"]Awesome post. [:D] Two things i must point out though:1] We beat spurs 2-1 in the league cup at FCR, not white hart lane (remember the ticket prices? lol)2] The ball numbers for the semi-final of the cup meant we would have drawn Swansea, not Bradford. The balls were assigned alphabettically. [/quote]Fair point on both of those. But even then: Swansea, when we''re their bogey team, for the chance of Wembley? What an opportunity that would''ve been.[/quote]Completely true. I think we would have beaten them if we had drawn them. Really heartbreaking.

[thebigfeller 200]

[quote user="Tumbleweed"]On another thread two posters with some track record and credibility both referred to boardroom divisions. Looks like some on the Board want him gone but someone influential doesn''t- that must be either McN or Delia/MWJ. Until they sort that out and agree, nothing will happen. Meanwhile time and games run out.[/quote]I''ve started to suspect that too, sadly; and would assume that Delia and MWJ are those in the Hughton camp.If so... here we go again. :(

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="thebigfeller"][quote user="nutty nigel"]Great to see you posting Shaun and I hope things are good with you.

Cast your mind back to August 2009 when we were all glad to see the back of poor old Gunny. The best names we could come up with as replacements were the likes of Boothroyd, Tilson and Robins. The appointment of Lambert came out of the blue and from that moment the new board walked on water. So then when Lambert left full trust was given to the board to find a replacement. No one doubted McNally would have a plan B so when Hughton was appointed nearly supported it and immediately got behind him.

Now it seems the board and particularly McNally''s reputation is in tatters. He is no longer the man with the golden touch and the same confidence will not greet Hughton''s successor whenever it happens and whoever it is.

I am convinced Lambert was a once in a lifetime fit for this club. And when Hughton leaves or is pushed the next managerial appointment will be the lottery it always was. If this manager or the next manager don''t turn this around the board will be right back in the fans firing line where they were when Bowkett and McNally were appointed.[/quote]Hi NN! Long time, etc... Was Lambert a once in a lifetime fit? Maybe; he''s certainly the greatest NCFC manager of my lifetime, and probably ever. But it''s defeatist to take the view that we can never hope to get those times back under someone else - and what worries me, as it does many, many others, is the way we''ve returned to that default defeatism and timidity over the last year or so.I don''t know what it is about this club whereby it dithers so damn much. Is the manager getting the most of the players/resources at his disposal? Demonstrably not; and because he''s demonstrably not, he should be long gone by now. He should''ve been gone after the disastrous double-header in Manchester.By dithering so long, the board have given themselves fewer and fewer outs. It might even already be too late for a new man to come in and turn things round: our run-in is a thing from hell, the last 6 games - never mind just the last 4. This season has reminded me hugely of 05/6: Worthington so often a game from the sack, fans divided and turning on each other, the atmosphere around the club descending towards something increasingly poisonous and wholly counter-productive - but the board just would not act.The truth is, no manager should ever be a game from the sack. He''s either the right man or the wrong man: there''s no in-between, and one game tells you nothing. I find it incomprehensible that they are apparently satisfied with the job Hughton''s doing; we didn''t spend all that dosh in the summer to get worse, but we have. So many other clubs in the bottom half have reacted and made the decision; we haven''t. It''s pathetic.And yes, any new manager represents a gamble (not a lottery, NN: a gamble; in which it''s up to those taking that punt to do their research thoroughly and reduce the odds on it succeeding as far as possible); but it''s far, far more of a gamble to keep CH in charge now. We''re 15th in the Premier League, with a huge catchment area, great youth system, superb stadium and facilities, excellent finances and a tremendous, loyal support. There''s tons of hugely talented managers across Europe who''d love a job like that in a league as high profile as this. Why can''t we do as Southampton or Cardiff did, and think outside the box for a change? Why is it always the same old conservative, negative, "what we have we hold" thought processes? What''s happened to the boldness which characterised this club under Lambert, and under McNally?Even he seems to have succumbed to the Norwich disease now. It''s hugely depressing and just not good enough at all.[/quote]

 

I have sat in the same room as McNally at three different events this season and in each and every one he has exuded the same confidence as he showed in the previous four seasons. Some would have you believe the board are split and the owners won''t let him be ruthless. yet an "in the know" poster calls it the other way saying that MWJ has wanted Hughton gone since last season. Unsurprisingly the popular view is that this particular "in the know" poster has the camps the wrong way around. The usual thing will be to blame Delia. And that''s started already.. 

 

 

[PurpleCanary 6,381]

I like a good conspiracy theory and have enjoyed some of the speculation as to why Hughton is still in the job. Boardroom splits, with differing versions of which directors have wanted him gone and which have backed him. I think we need a flow chart...Sadly there is a less dramatic explanation. That at no time this season was there an obvious point when it could be clearly seen that Hughton was failing. Failing enough for his sacking to be an inescapable decision.People can mention this game or that, but there was never one result or even a set of results that made his position untenable. And last night didn''t either. No-one can seriously think Hughton would have put out that team if his job depended on it.It is easy now to blame the directors - either all of them or a cabal - but the truth is that the way this season has paned out has not created a clearcut situation.

[PurpleCanary 6,381]

"...panned out..." rather than "...paned out..." although perhaps it was a Freudian slip...[;)]

[littleyellowbirdie 3,138]

I definitely agree that Hughton didn''t really appreciate the importance of putting Lambert''s shadow to rest by beating Villa. I do also think that, with our record against Fulham at Craven Cottage, not to mention a league game there later in the season, it was probably worth fielding a much stronger team than we did last night. Superstition can be a powerful thing.

[ricardo 8,034]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

People can mention this game or that, but there was never one result or even a set of results that made his position untenable. And last night didn''t either. No-one can seriously think Hughton would have put out that team if his job depended on it.[/quote]Exactly so Purple and that is why those that have called it that he would still be in his job after Xmas got it spot on. We had claims in October and November that he would be gone by the weekend when it was never remotely probable that this would happen. It was obvious in December that barring a catastrophic set of results he would still be in his job. Now we come to the Hull game and it''s quite possible that a different scenario will play out. With still no turn in form this could very well be the result that does for him. I am thinking along the lines of Worthy and Burnley. Nobody could survive that. However should we win then there is little or no chance of a change. Some won''t like it but barring that catastrophic event he could very well go on right through the season.Events will determine his fate and Saturday will be the first big crunch.

[Cantiaci Canary 610]

[quote user="KeepTheFaith"]Great post but to say we have been in relegation form for over a year is over dramatic. We are in a position in the table that we would expect to be. 3 points off 11th.[/quote]

9 wins in the last 42 league games ... hmmmmmmm

[!M.u.s.t.a.r.d_M.a.t.t.e.r.s! 0]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]

People can mention this game or that, but there was never one result or even a set of results that made his position untenable. And last night didn''t either. No-one can seriously think Hughton would have put out that team if his job depended on it.[/quote]Exactly so Purple and that is why those that have called it that he would still be in his job after Xmas got it spot on. We had claims in October and November that he would be gone by the weekend when it was never remotely probable that this would happen. It was obvious in December that barring a catastrophic set of results he would still be in his job. Now we come to the Hull game and it''s quite possible that a different scenario will play out. With still no turn in form this could very well be the result that does for him. I am thinking along the lines of Worthy and Burnley. Nobody could survive that. However should we win then there is little or no chance of a change. Some won''t like it but barring that catastrophic event he could very well go on right through the season.Events will determine his fate and Saturday will be the first big crunch.[/quote]McNally described CH''s brief in terms of keeping out of the bottom 3. Even if we lose to Hull, we would not necessarily be in the bottom 3. It would depend, of  course, on what those below us do. That would equally apply to the following game against Newcastle.

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

A really good read from the OP. I remember that game well. I particularly remember Morison stopping playing to argue with Hughton! Villa breaking from his inactivity and scoring.

That was part of the reason he went and Becchio arrived.

[It's Character Forming 1,204]

An interesting post but I just don''t buy it. The league cup just isn''t important to players /managers in modern football.

Also if we''ve had relegation form for over 12 months wouldn''t that mean we should now be in the relegation zone?