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Pabs

Signing FF could be Lambert's biggest mistake thus far...

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Hear me out...

There is no doubt Forster is a great keeper, although Ruddy in my opinion has proved himself to be a good keeper too; but I just feel that if Lambert does sign Forster it could be a major error.

As I say it is not because he isn''t a good keeper - it is because I think it is bad for morale. Ruddy spent a long time last season emerging from FF''s shadow, and I feel he managed this with respect. It was also clear Ruddy was passionate about the team, promotion and his own game (the interview post-Swansea at home, running up the pitch to celebrate etc) and he is respected by his team mates.

I think signing Forster could drive a bit of a wedge in the team - I know the players liked him when he was here too, but it might show Lambert''s disloyalty to the players who got him there and break team spirit.

Maybe it is Lambert being ruthless for the good of the team, but I am worried about the implications of this signing!

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Nonsense . we will need two good keepers for the prem,Ruddy will just have to take it on the chin .

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Signing Forster will put the goal keepers jersey up for grabs, and get 2 young keepers, with potential, but still room and time to improve hugely, fighting it out to be number 1. When you consider the quality of other keepers about, this may prove to be a sound move. Look at who England have put between their sticks lately Hart, Foster, Green, Carson, Robinson & so on they are not exactly out of reach for either Ruddy or Forster. I like Ruddy, but he will need to carry on improving, and pushing himself to establish himself as a premier league No. 1 I feel, but no reason why he can''t.

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we have competition in every other position so why not in goal?? last thing we want is either complacency or a lack of cover for injury, suspension or loss of form/confidence...

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Nobody has said we are signing FF, it''s just a load of toshy rumours..

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What a load of rubbish. Do Barcelona think signing Fabregas would be a bad idea because they already have Xavi or Iniesta? You can never have too many good players in competing positions.

Besides, I really like Ruddy. But being a Goalkeeper myself for my team, I still think Forster is the better player. Sorry, but it''s my opinion. Yet, why not have them both.

And finally.... I''d never disagree with PL''s player choice :)

OTBC!!

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I think Ruddy is a brilliant keeper and his passion for the team is without question. In fact, I''ve often said on here that his penalty save against Swansea was my moment of the season. I do have a little gripe though. I never feel confident about him when an opposing team get a free kick in a shooting position. His starting position never seems quite right, but that''s just my opinion. God knows what the stats are, it''s just something I''ve noticed. I''d be interested to know how many were scored against him last season actually.Regardless, I think we will be going in for another keeper. Ruddy needs competition. Whether it''ll be Forster or not is another matter. It could be a total surprise!

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It would be even more of a kick in the teeth for Declan Rudd & Jed Steer - two of our own keepers who could easily make the grade and who have tasted a bit of first team involvement already.

I don''t think PL will go for FF - in view of our strength in depth, it would be a waste of £2m. It is a bit of  a gamble if Ruddy gets an injury, but Rudd is old enough now to be seen as a credible deputy - only the top 4 or 5 Premier teams have two decent experienced keepers in their squads.

If he does go for a keeper I would expect a more experienced deputy like Maik Taylor or Marcus Hanneman.

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sgncfc - "only the top 4 or 5 Premier teams have two decent experienced keepers in their squads"

If that is the case, how come FF is third choice at Newcastle - mid table at best.

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Get a refund on all the players we''ve signed so far as it might upset the team. Sorry but what your saying is nonsense.

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[quote user="sgncfc"]

It would be even more of a kick in the teeth for Declan Rudd & Jed Steer - two of our own keepers who could easily make the grade and who have tasted a bit of first team involvement already.

I don''t think PL will go for FF - in view of our strength in depth, it would be a waste of £2m. It is a bit of  a gamble if Ruddy gets an injury, but Rudd is old enough now to be seen as a credible deputy - only the top 4 or 5 Premier teams have two decent experienced keepers in their squads.

If he does go for a keeper I would expect a more experienced deputy like Maik Taylor or Marcus Hanneman.

[/quote]

A very good point that many seem to have overlooked.  There seems little point in having two talented young goalkeepers if you are never going to actually play them.  When, exactly, is it not too soon for Rudd to be allowed his chance?  Surely if Ruddy gets injured then that time is now.

Ruddy is a very decent keeper and more than capable of holding his own in the Premier League.  I see no reason to waste large amounts of money on another keeper. Perhaps an older experienced keeper on the books may only be of benefit for us, but only on a free, or cheap.  Ruddy no.1,  Rudd no.2, Steer - loan, experienced old bloke - no.2/3.

Having said all that, I think FF was bloody marvellous for us.  Great keeper.

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[quote user="Scooby"]A very good point that many seem to have overlooked.  There seems little point in having two talented young goalkeepers if you are never going to actually play them.  When, exactly, is it not too soon for Rudd to be allowed his chance?  Surely if Ruddy gets injured then that time is now.[/quote]Very few top flight clubs are willing to take a gamble on a highly inexperienced young keeper outside of maybe a game or two if necessary, any longer than this and there''s normally either an emergency loan deal done, or a perm transfer if the window is open.It''s pretty risky going into a season with only a single experienced keeper, and I''d rather secure another good quality keeper now, than not bother and be left trying to loan one in if Ruddy gets injured etc.Even if you look at the England U21 setup, none of the three main keepers play in the prem, and have been loaned out a fair bit to try to give them experience, which is exactly what I think we need to do with both Rudd and Steer, with Rudd going to a CCC/L1 team and Steer going to L1/L2.Forster is a great young keeper who I personally prefer to Ruddy, and I think the competition this would provide would get the best out of both.

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But FF has only played in League One and in a very second rate Scottish Premier. Yes, he''s used to big crowds but the football quality he has been exposed to is way below Ruddy so wouldn he really come back to sit on the bench? Surely he is no better as a back up than Rudd?

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"FF has only played in League One and in a very second rate Scottish Premier"

Nail on the head there for me, he did not play in a league that would improve him after the season with us. He went to Celtic who only play a couple competitive matches a season in Old Firm games, he''d have been better off if he had to go north the border to play for a "lesser" team so as to be busier every match.

He really should have played at a Championship club to keep developing

£500k yes i''d have him, this mooted £2mill is laughable and a poor investment

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[quote user="sgncfc"]

It would be even more of a kick in the teeth for Declan Rudd & Jed Steer - two of our own keepers who could easily make the grade and who have tasted a bit of first team involvement already.

I don''t think PL will go for FF - in view of our strength in depth, it would be a waste of £2m. It is a bit of  a gamble if Ruddy gets an injury, but Rudd is old enough now to be seen as a credible deputy - only the top 4 or 5 Premier teams have two decent experienced keepers in their squads.

If he does go for a keeper I would expect a more experienced deputy like Maik Taylor or Marcus Hanneman.

[/quote]

Agreed.

If Fraser Forster was as good as everyone thinks he would be in the Newcastle goal. Krul is the same age as Forster. He would at least have been capped at some level for his country, meanwhile we have the best two young keepers in the country, both England Youth internationals at Carrow Road. Chelsea have been rumoured to be looking at Jed Steer already. Surely one of the reasons we let Joe Lewis go was the potential of the two younger keepers. To get another young keeper would be a waste of money and possibly hamper the development of our two young internationals.

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[quote user="Ankles"]"FF has only played in League One and in a very second rate Scottish Premier" Nail on the head there for me, he did not play in a league that would improve him after the season with us. He went to Celtic who only play a couple competitive matches a season in Old Firm games, he''d have been better off if he had to go north the border to play for a "lesser" team so as to be busier every match. He really should have played at a Championship club to keep developing £500k yes i''d have him, this mooted £2mill is laughable and a poor investment[/quote]

PL has previously described FF as a potentially ''World Class'' keeper, Given that''s our managers opinion, do you really think £500k would secure a player of that high calibre?

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David Marshall seemed to excel in the SPL at Celtic and was deemed a very good purchase when we got him-ahead of other clubs...thats if any other clubs were rivalling us for his signature at the time?

And he was decent enough, but not outstanding, certainly not in the same league for us, keeper-wise, as Keelan, Woods, Gunn and Green, all of whom are head and shoulders above him. He was certainly noticed enough here to move on, but it was "only" to Cardiff, no Prem clubs came in for him and he ended last season well out of contention there.

It''s always odd that, when other players are signed we all say that ir provides good competition for a squad place and will keep so-and-so on his toes, yet, if there is mention of a keeper coming in, its seen as an downer on Ruddy. Far from it and I would hope he''ll welcome any and all competition for his place, just as any player would, thats a professional attitude.

I do think the FF story is just that, and I would hope Rudd is seen as credible oppositon for Ruddy this season, age or not. We have him and Steer coming through, we aren''t going to be able to keep them both long term and, if another keeper comes in, particualrly a young keeper a''la FF, it''ll be more of a knockback to them than to Ruddy.

 

 

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[quote user="Ankles"]"FF has only played in League One and in a very second rate Scottish Premier"

Nail on the head there for me, he did not play in a league that would improve him after the season with us. He went to Celtic who only play a couple competitive matches a season in Old Firm games, he''d have been better off if he had to go north the border to play for a "lesser" team so as to be busier every match.

He really should have played at a Championship club to keep developing

£500k yes i''d have him, this mooted £2mill is laughable and a poor investment[/quote]You talk out of your rear end!!!

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[quote user="NCFC4LIFE"][quote user="Ankles"]"FF has only played in League One and in a very second rate Scottish Premier"

Nail on the head there for me, he did not play in a league that would improve him after the season with us. He went to Celtic who only play a couple competitive matches a season in Old Firm games, he''d have been better off if he had to go north the border to play for a "lesser" team so as to be busier every match.

He really should have played at a Championship club to keep developing

£500k yes i''d have him, this mooted £2mill is laughable and a poor investment[/quote]You talk out of your rear end!!! [/quote]

I do like good, intelligent, well thought out replies.

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[quote user="Yellow Wall"][quote user="NCFC4LIFE"][quote user="Ankles"]"FF has only played in League One and in a very second rate Scottish Premier" Nail on the head there for me, he did not play in a league that would improve him after the season with us. He went to Celtic who only play a couple competitive matches a season in Old Firm games, he''d have been better off if he had to go north the border to play for a "lesser" team so as to be busier every match. He really should have played at a Championship club to keep developing £500k yes i''d have him, this mooted £2mill is laughable and a poor investment[/quote]

You talk out of your rear end!!!
[/quote] I do like good, intelligent, well thought out replies.[/quote]

I have said this for a long time, if we had have got FF back for last season then we would have seen what if any improvement from LG1, Lets face it the SPL is at the same level as lg1, And as Lambert said himself he didn''t think that Scottish football is not in the same standard as the English FL. but thats another debate.  

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If it comes down to who FF fancies playing for, I think PL will win hands down.

 

This quote from Lennon about FF: "...He was a relative nobody really, when we signed him on loan"....

 

Ouch! - Says it all about Lennon''s lack of ability to connect with people!

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[quote user="Old Shuck"]

David Marshall seemed to excel in the SPL at Celtic and was deemed a very good purchase when we got him-ahead of other clubs...thats if any other clubs were rivalling us for his signature at the time?

And he was decent enough, but not outstanding, certainly not in the same league for us, keeper-wise, as Keelan, Woods, Gunn and Green, all of whom are head and shoulders above him. He was certainly noticed enough here to move on, but it was "only" to Cardiff, no Prem clubs came in for him and he ended last season well out of contention there.

It''s always odd that, when other players are signed we all say that ir provides good competition for a squad place and will keep so-and-so on his toes, yet, if there is mention of a keeper coming in, its seen as an downer on Ruddy. Far from it and I would hope he''ll welcome any and all competition for his place, just as any player would, thats a professional attitude.

I do think the FF story is just that, and I would hope Rudd is seen as credible oppositon for Ruddy this season, age or not. We have him and Steer coming through, we aren''t going to be able to keep them both long term and, if another keeper comes in, particualrly a young keeper a''la FF, it''ll be more of a knockback to them than to Ruddy.

 

 

[/quote]People on this forum are very good at twisting the truth to suit their own agenda. David Marshall had been out of favour at Celtic for nearly 2 seasons when we signed him. He was back up to Artur Boruc. Comparing him to FF is a complete misnomer.

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[quote user="bjg123"][quote user="Old Shuck"]

David Marshall seemed to excel in the SPL at Celtic and was deemed a very good purchase when we got him-ahead of other clubs...thats if any other clubs were rivalling us for his signature at the time?

And he was decent enough, but not outstanding, certainly not in the same league for us, keeper-wise, as Keelan, Woods, Gunn and Green, all of whom are head and shoulders above him. He was certainly noticed enough here to move on, but it was "only" to Cardiff, no Prem clubs came in for him and he ended last season well out of contention there.

It''s always odd that, when other players are signed we all say that ir provides good competition for a squad place and will keep so-and-so on his toes, yet, if there is mention of a keeper coming in, its seen as an downer on Ruddy. Far from it and I would hope he''ll welcome any and all competition for his place, just as any player would, thats a professional attitude.

I do think the FF story is just that, and I would hope Rudd is seen as credible oppositon for Ruddy this season, age or not. We have him and Steer coming through, we aren''t going to be able to keep them both long term and, if another keeper comes in, particualrly a young keeper a''la FF, it''ll be more of a knockback to them than to Ruddy.

 

 

[/quote]

People on this forum are very good at twisting the truth to suit their own agenda. David Marshall had been out of favour at Celtic for nearly 2 seasons when we signed him. He was back up to Artur Boruc. Comparing him to FF is a complete misnomer.
[/quote]

 

 

Kind of also unfair to say he was out of favour is it not?.. being understudy to Artur Boruc is no bad thing. while I agree to say he ''excelled'' would be misleading, he was highly thought of and was seen by his club as a good keeper. Was green out of favor while marshal played, or indeed lewis at any point during their Norwich days?

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Not really - Boruc was brought in by Strachan because Marshall - who was first choice - turned out to be a bit pap. Wasn''t Marshall brought in to replace Green after he left? My memory''s a bit hazy on that.

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The trouble with sentiment and ''fairness'' is that it would lead us to starting the premier league with the same defence as we finished the championship with. The same arguement being made to give Ruddy a fair crack at the premier and maintain squad harmony can be made for the back 4 or 5  also and I for one would not like to see us start next season with the same defence, which was leaky for a top 2 side and will be facing far superior strikers/creative midfielders. I appriciate we will be more defensively minded overall, mainly due to the fact we wont enjoy 65% possesion next season, but seriously, messi couldnt score enough goals to keep PL status next season if our team defending does not improve.

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[quote user="bjg123"]Not really - Boruc was brought in by Strachan because Marshall - who was first choice - turned out to be a bit pap. Wasn''t Marshall brought in to replace Green after he left? My memory''s a bit hazy on that.[/quote]

 

sorry bjg, I was refering the the people to whom we shall not speak of as harry potter would say (andy marshall who fled to scumville). The point being Green being understudy to A.Marshall (V1) doesnt mean we didnt rate him or he didnt do well at the club during that time. I may be wrong about Boruc though, I didnt remember him replacing marshall in which case yeah, ''out of favour'' is fair enough.

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[quote user="sgncfc"] Surely he is no better as a back up than Rudd?[/quote]

I would say Forster is a significantly better goalkeeper than Rudd.

 

I''d be fine seeing either Ruddy or Forster in goal in the Premier League. Seeing Rudd''s name on the team sheet would be worrying.

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Is there any truth to this other than lazy journalism? i dont see Forster comming unless Lambert has decided Ruddy is''nt up to it, his confidence would be shot to pieces with that particular player comming back.

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I agree, FF can only come back if Ruddy was to go..... Surely?I for one would not like to see this, Ruddy signed up to the NCFC cause when FF didn''t want to, or couldn''t come back. Whichever it was we don''t know. We needed a ''keeper and in he stepped and for all his faults or fine saves he was, quite simply, good enough to be part of a team that was the second best in that league.

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