SVH

[Monty13 2,256]

45 minutes ago, BigFish said:

The point is we have twelve games left and right now SVH is a clear downgrade on Idah. Idah was supposedly the best sub in the division, SVH is clearly not. The lack of that impact from the bench may cost us, and it would be worse if Sarge or Branes get injured.

I think that’s a completely fair criticism. 

I think SVH on paper has the potential to be a great long term signing. In the context of this season though, it’s an odd one.

[hogesar 9,776]

6 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

I think that’s a completely fair criticism. 

I think SVH on paper has the potential to be a great long term signing. In the context of this season though, it’s an odd one.

Yes. He could well be a long term solution and I understand that completely but to weaken us during a play off push just smells like complacency re how easy it is to get playoffs. Hopefully I'm completely wrong but I think we would have been better away vs QPR and Blackburn if we had Idah as an option from the bench. 

I understand its quite small margins but they count right now! 

[Branston Pickle 3,709]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

I think there's a difference between writing off and judging if that type of player is suitable for the way we play, or for English football in general. 

.

Well, therein lies the point - the equivalent of half a game isn’t enough for us to make a proper call on any player. 

[hogesar 9,776]

25 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Well, therein lies the point - the equivalent of half a game isn’t enough for us to make a proper call on any player. 

I agree! But I think we should be allowed to discuss with the evidence available thus far especially when I fundamentally disagreed with letting Idah go out on loan mid season.

[repman 636]

44 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Yes he did win one header but over his entire career he wins less % than Barnes despite being taller. 

I'd also expect him to look after the ball if he's only going to have 5 touches in 30 minutes whilst putting little to no pressure on the opposition, and falling over the one time he had some proper defending to do.

Where are you seeing this? Fbref has Barnes at 36.8% and SVH at 48.4%. There is years missing from Barnes so that might be why.

For what it's worth I watched back the game from when he came on and his pressing is fine, he shadows other players well,  we were pretty resolute in our shape and he didn't let Sunderland play through us once.

As to the lack of touches point, I feel like this discussion was had with Idah too, who also didn't have many touches when he came into the team. It's a matter of whether you think there's something intrinsic in getting touches of the ball or if it's down to team factors (and even additional things like conditions, which yesterday weren't particularly conducive to playing football).

[JonnyJonnyRowe 502]

1 hour ago, Capt. Pants said:

I was hoping Idah could return for the play-offs but the SPL doesn't finish until May 19th and the Scottish Cup Final the week after.

I don't think you can register a player for the squad like that.

In the January window he was registered in Celtic's squad and deregistered from ours.

There is a point beyond that where you can register free agents who were released before the end of the window, which is why you get some players tear their contract up on deadline day if they don't secure a move (so they can still sign for somebody as a free agent), but think that is only up to some point March, you can't register somebody in May even if they are technically contracted you (as Idah would be). 

[hogesar 9,776]

23 minutes ago, repman said:

Where are you seeing this? Fbref has Barnes at 36.8% and SVH at 48.4%. There is years missing from Barnes so that might be why.

For what it's worth I watched back the game from when he came on and his pressing is fine, he shadows other players well,  we were pretty resolute in our shape and he didn't let Sunderland play through us once.

As to the lack of touches point, I feel like this discussion was had with Idah too, who also didn't have many touches when he came into the team. It's a matter of whether you think there's something intrinsic in getting touches of the ball or if it's down to team factors (and even additional things like conditions, which yesterday weren't particularly conducive to playing football).

Sofascore in terms of data reference btw.

Idah didn't have many touches either but he was far more threatening to an opposition defence because he can have his back to goal and turn or play on the shoulder. 

Nothing suggests SVH has anything close to that. 

Re SvH aerial ability in general - an Italian journalist spoke about this when us and Celtic were rumoured to be interested. He said its been a problem all his career and its fundamentally down to a lack of strength.

My concern is that's going to be even more prevalent in English football. 

[shefcanary 2,496]

@hogesar SvH will eventually be better than Kenny! Even if Kenny plays the rest of his games for us at LCB. Mark my words!🤣 

[hogesar 9,776]

4 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

@hogesar SvH will eventually be better than Kenny! Even if Kenny plays the rest of his games for us at LCB. Mark my words!🤣 

I'd rather Kenny up front right now to be honest 

[Indy 3,323]

6 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I'd rather Kenny up front right now to be honest 

No he’s due a go in goal if Gunn gets injured! Do you think he’s in line to take over from Wagner? McLean as our next head coach? He’s got the pointy fingers to do it well!

[Grumpy 124]

As I have stated I have not seen anything to particularly excite me regarding his ability so hopefully there is something there and he can come good;sooner rather than later
Apart from Peter Crouch (he did turn out to be pretty handy) who was particularly ungainly,my first impression of SVH is a knock kneed,unfit athlete with not much pace.In fact I would say that Barnes has certainly more than SVH

[Nik Vawn 161]

far to early to form any substantive view

 

[daly 513]

23 hours ago, A K Narey said:

Don't be too harsh as he is still getting used to English football and the pace of the Championship. He needs to adjust to the physical battles although he did knock down a couple of defenders this afternoon.

So did Giant Haystacks 

[daly 513]

23 hours ago, Hairy Canary said:

Think you’re being a little previous to be honest. I thought Hwang was really poor when he first played but he gradually improved until he was average. SVH could yet do the same.

Just what we need another Average player

[chicken 2,656]

The folks asking why SVH has been brought in.

I'm not sure how to take the rumours of a possibly fall out at this point between Wagner and Idah and without concrete evidence I think we have to go without it.

I think there are two possible scenarios here.

1) We know we may have to brace for bids for Sargent. Now, we can put our fingers in our ears and ask Sargent to do the same - won't happen. Or we can start trying to put plans into motion for that eventuality. We know who Idah is and the coaching set up know him pretty well. If we need him to be pushing for a start next season he needs to be doing what he is in Scotland and getting more time and more goals. Loaning in SVH gives us a look at him, we have agreed a fee already which means we get to run the rule over him before committing to buying him. Makes clever sense. If he is the player for us, he won't need so much time over the summer to settle, eg, look for a place to stay/live, look at what the city has going on and for communities to be a part of etc. He gets to be part of the squad, get to know the other players and coaches and the ethos, philosophy and mentality of the group etc.

2) See above only replace it with it being Idah that is leaving.

It sort of makes sense when you look at how well Leitner and Onell did in their first full season having been brought in during the previous January transfer window. If you expect a fair bit of turnover, say 5-6 players, if one of those can be loaned in a good 6months before the others, it's one less player to have to have hitting the ground around the same time, they get a proper full pre-season too. 

[A K Narey 116]

23 minutes ago, daly said:

So did Giant Haystacks 

I always used to love watching the wrestling with my granddad when I was very young. Before I started becoming interested in football.

[Big Vince 324]

36 minutes ago, daly said:

So did Giant Haystacks 

Giant Heystacks was disqualified for having his foot on Jan Wilkens neck.

[Samwam27 532]

It sounds like Idah wanted game time elsewhere. Theres no point arguing about his merits or not as hes not here now.

We also knocked Sarg when he first arrived. The only way SVH will.improve is with gametime, as he adjusts to english game and his colleagues.

 

[Gordon Bennett 794]

I've never seen the sense in keeping players who don't want to be here.  

[Google Bot 3,342]

Was interesting to hear what Wagner said in the Boro post presser regarding SVH, he made mention that 'hopefully' people can see that he's not up to the level of fitness required but he has trust in the team and player to get there.

Timestamped:

Quite an honest assessment I thought.

Edited March 6 by Google Bot

[BroadstairsR 2,218]

Strange loan then. .... option to buy seems unattractive atm.

[Google Bot 3,342]

50 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

Strange loan then. .... option to buy seems unattractive atm.

What I can't wrap my head around is that SVH seems physically wrong to be that mobile player who can work the press as Idah and Sarge can, so i'm really intrigued as to how the coaching team will bring him to that level.

[jaberry2 556]

9 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

What I can't wrap my head around is that SVH seems physically wrong to be that mobile player who can work the press as Idah and Sarge can, so i'm really intrigued as to how the coaching team will bring him to that level.

I suspect SVH has been earmarked as a replacement to Barnes next season. If Sarge leaves and we are not promoted then we would need to replace him with a similar mobile striker, who clearly isnt SVH.

[Google Bot 3,342]

18 minutes ago, jaberry2 said:

I suspect SVH has been earmarked as a replacement to Barnes next season. If Sarge leaves and we are not promoted then we would need to replace him with a similar mobile striker, who clearly isnt SVH.

I just presumed Barnes is primarily in our team based on experience and his availability as free transfer, not necessarily that we want that type of player.  But perhaps i'm wrong and it is entirely by design.

[Kenny Foggo 1,118]

Its amazing these days, that if a player doesn't immediately look world class in their first minutes of a game, people write them off. Clearly not fit enough yet but being as iwan Roberts took a season to get going, I am willing to give the fella a chance.

[Satriales 703]

2 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Its amazing these days, that if a player doesn't immediately look world class in their first minutes of a game, people write them off. Clearly not fit enough yet but being as iwan Roberts took a season to get going, I am willing to give the fella a chance.

Sargent took loads of stick in his early days, now he's one of our best players.

[jaberry2 556]

39 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

I just presumed Barnes is primarily in our team based on experience and his availability as free transfer, not necessarily that we want that type of player.  But perhaps i'm wrong and it is entirely by design.

I suspect there are various moving parts currently. Not to mention our longer-term plan and whether that involves a new manager etc. Watch this space I suppose, but you would expect Knapper to have a mindset on longer term recruitment regardless of manager.

[Capt. Pants 4,300]

Well he's been here a month now, how long is it going to take him to get 'fit'? Seems ridiculous to replace Idah with him.

[hogesar 9,776]

1 hour ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Its amazing these days, that if a player doesn't immediately look world class in their first minutes of a game, people write them off. Clearly not fit enough yet but being as iwan Roberts took a season to get going, I am willing to give the fella a chance.

I'm one of the last to do that as my posting history will testify but there's a bit of a difference in what I'm talking about here.

It's not just the player it's the circumstance. The vitriol that would have been directed at Webber had he loaned out a goal-scoring fit striker and got in someone who looked so massively short of any level of fitness to the naked eye after just 5 minutes of watching him (which has now been backed up by the manager) would have been off the scale.

It could well have already had an impact on our play-off run as a fit Idah is 10x better than a completely unfit, new player and I suspect Idah would have got time vs QPR away and Blackburn.

 

[Nexus_Canary 1,028]

I always love how quickly our fan base judge a player.

He hadn't run 90 mins and people have written him off.

Worst thing about this club is the fanbase, thick and ignorant