SVH

[hogesar 9,676]

13 minutes ago, repman said:

Feels like we’ve come full circle. I spent months on here arguing with people that Idah had barely put together the minutes to be anywhere near fairly judged, and now we’re doing the same for another player whose combined minutes for the club are less than an actual match.

Even so, he was fine today, it’s clear that he will be the focal point with Sargent dropping, can’t say I remember much of what he did but that’s true for all the strikers really (bar the goal). He did link nicely and play Sargent through on his left just after our goal I think? (might’ve been before).

As for Idah being a better option that may well be the case. Again I think it’s way too early to judge but also there’s a chance Sargent won’t be here next season, and if Idah can become what was promised then that will mean money can be spent on other areas. In a similar vein if an Idah sale means we don’t need to sell one of our star players then that’s a big plus too. Neither of these scenarios are possible if he’s kept to play back-up to Sargent/Barnes for the rest of the year.

(Though I would agree to an argument that he should be first choice over Barnes but I’m not sure that’s a commonly held opinion either).

SVH touched the ball 5 times in 32 minutes or so just for clarity.

47 minutes ago, Yobocop said:

This.

you’re gonna have to let this one go Callum 

I can sort of understand the Idah wanting to go thing (although Webber was slaughtered for selling Emi on the same basis) - but to then replace him mid-season with a player who quite clearly is going to take significant time to adjust (if he ever does)? 

If we had nothing to play for I'd be all over it but getting to the playoffs aren't easy and this season is a genuine opportunity 

[RobJames 881]

Did the club foresee Rowes injury ?

[cornish sam 954]

Idah needed a loan, both for him and for us, his development has been severely stunted by being too good to let go, but not quite good enough to start. As many pointed out, SVH has been most effective as the front man, i.e. Sargent's role, he is not suited to the role Barnes fills. If he came on with instructions to fill a Barnes sized hole he will look a bit lost and pointless, especially in a league and team he isn't up to speed with...

I'm not saying he's a good signing, but then again there is no way he can be judged on his performance today and the other few minutes he's had so far

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

Two seemingly contradictory things are true here. One, Idah is no good. Two, just for now he is better than van Hooijdonk.

[repman 635]

21 minutes ago, hogesar said:

If we had nothing to play for I'd be all over it but getting to the playoffs aren't easy and this season is a genuine opportunity 

To this point, and I think it's an interesting discussion nonetheless. If we were to reach the playoffs, what percent chance would you give us of winning it? 

Edited March 2 by repman

[Fuzzar 1,702]

He's the first knock-kneed pro footballer I've ever seen. 

[Well b back 3,216]

Wagner says SVH is not ready yet, fans complain he is not playing

Wagner plays him a bit, fans complain he is playing but not good enough

 

[ron obvious 1,505]

It's a bit worrying. He looked knackered as soon as he came on. appears to have zero pace & just sort of gangles about.

But of course it's ridiculous to judge him on the tiny amount of time he's been here. I'm not making any sort of judgement on him for a month or two, in the meantime I'll be getting behind him & hoping he comes good.

[hogesar 9,676]

10 minutes ago, repman said:

To this point, and I think it's an interesting discussion nonetheless. If we were to reach the playoffs, what percent chance would you give us of winning it? 

A real slim one. But I'm concerned there's a complacency within the club, perhaps Knapper, who doesn't understand how difficult getting to the play-offs are. And that we were willing to make mid-season sacrifices for the longer-term, whilst ignoring our short-term opportunity, sort of suggests that.

Say we miss out on the play-offs by 2 points and SVH doesn't improve from here on in. Every chance Idah could have been the difference. Then let's say we don't touch the playoffs for the next 2 seasons - it will look such a missed opportunity that was basically, unnecessary

[ron obvious 1,505]

5 minutes ago, Fuzzar said:

He's the first knock-kneed pro footballer I've ever seen. 

Really? You're forgetting this guy. Let's hope he turns out as good...

[Ian 1,130]

Did we learn nothing from Iwan?

[TIL 1010 4,750]

I remember it well when i got jumped on for saying that i wouldn't look twice at Dennis Srbeny at Sloughbottom Park on a Sunday morning.

[Ken Hairy 3,773]

I've been looking forward to seeing what he can do, so was pleased to see him come on with 30 minutes left to play. Unfortunately for him he did the sum total of nothing. Its early days though and can put it down to one of those days were attackers found it hard. I didn't think Sargent did a great deal but score, his performance today was why I loved playing as a striker and got many undeserved MOTM awards just because I scored 😁

[hogesar 9,676]

22 minutes ago, Ian said:

Did we learn nothing from Iwan?

Or even Sargent? I think that's a totally fair point. I just think it's worth a discussion of what we've seen so far since we decided to let Idah go.

[repman 635]

26 minutes ago, hogesar said:

A real slim one. But I'm concerned there's a complacency within the club, perhaps Knapper, who doesn't understand how difficult getting to the play-offs are. And that we were willing to make mid-season sacrifices for the longer-term, whilst ignoring our short-term opportunity, sort of suggests that.

Say we miss out on the play-offs by 2 points and SVH doesn't improve from here on in. Every chance Idah could have been the difference. Then let's say we don't touch the playoffs for the next 2 seasons - it will look such a missed opportunity that was basically, unnecessary

Interesting. I think, if you go back to December it becomes much clearer as to why Knapper might be looking further ahead. The chance of playoffs felt slim enough then that he could've quite easily have sacked Wagner then and torn it all up to start the rebuild immediately (what I think Webber would've done). Instead he's chosen to basically stick as it is, but has made moves what I'd characterise as around the outside rather than anything drastic. Combine that with the imminent end of parachute payments, which is also something that cannot be ignored.

With hindsight we might look back and say what if we had x player, but that's what hindsight is. The reality was much bleaker. With the underlying numbers being what they are, and us being in a chasing spot rather than in the leading pack, the club would've look at the chance of success this season and I'd bet it would've been pretty small. Certainly small enough so that you're tempted to cut your losses on the season. Very few of the players who started today will be part of the next good Norwich side, be that due to contracts, age or them being moved on due to financial necessity. We're looking at a situation where any future success we're probably going to need at least 3/4 academy players to be solid contributors. This is also in a world where you don't find Pukki on a free or Buendia for a couple of million.

I think Knapper knows he's not going to learn a lot about any player from Wagner outside of the core group and that's why he's looked to loan a lot of them out. If he could do that while also bringing in future targets then that in a way is killing two birds with one stone. I'd wager the club view the SVH/Idah swap as a wash, but there remains the question of whether Idah still has further upside. Had the interest in Varane materialised then Gibbs would've gone out on loan too, identical situation really.

[rock bus 854]

Can I just remind you all that most people thought Sargent was absolute garbage!!

for Christ sake give the guy a chance!

[Nuff Said 5,145]

I wasn’t at the game, but it looked like it was chucking it down a lot of the time. That’s hardly going to bring out the best in any player, let alone one who’s had about 30 minutes so far.

Edited March 3 by Nuff Said

[chicken 2,627]

17 minutes ago, rock bus said:

Can I just remind you all that most people thought Sargent was absolute garbage!!

for Christ sake give the guy a chance!

Even last season.

[RobJames 881]

There's no way the club would have countenance 'waving the white flag' and giving up on a play of spot with barely a season gone. Off course the club has a strategy that focuses long term as well as the immediate aim.  Both Wagner and Knapper are likely to be bonused to the hilt depending on the finishing place, so they would not go along with any 'ah well, lets give up now'. Likewise the players. You are not good enough, so there's not much point in risking any injury bursting a gut to win games. One way of motivating them to stay for next season, I suppose.

I think you are getting the Idah situation round the wrong way. From my understanding of what I have been told Idah wanted a chance to play away from Norwich, partly I would suggest that his boyhood club Celtic had let it be known they were interested. No loan would be sanctioned until another striker was lined up. Others going out were simply the thoughts of the coaching staff that they would not feature in the first team so shift them on rather than paying for what amounted to deadwood.

Perhaps SuV is taking longer to adapt/get up to speed than thought. That happens, If he was on the long term plan then why not agree to him signing in June so as to give him time to work up. The club must have thought he could slot straight in. That he hasn't does not equate to some conspiracy about us giving up a couple of months back. We are a point off the playoffs, even after losing possibly our star player (Rowe).

I trust those who have taken us to this point to know what they are doing. That being we can make the playoffs.

 

 

[White Horse 0]

We have replaced one third choice striker with another third choice striker. Except Idah is more used to this league and how to make an impact as a sub / third choice striker. 
 

He should have gone on a  L1 loan at the start of this season as that is his level. Derby under Warne would have been perfect for him. Idah can score as many as he can at Celtic but seriously, the top two aside, the SPL is the same standard as L1. It could be a clever move from Knapper to send him there to a manager who clearly rates him to maximise his value, scoring a few goals in the meantime, when we eventually sell him. 
 

Agreeing with the OP, VHD doesn’t look like the sort of player we need, now or in the future. 
 

Let’s hope Sarge stays fit and scoring, as I’m pretty sure VHD isn’t the answer if he doesn’t. 

[Indy 3,301]

4 hours ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

I can’t help but think had someone else posted this, you’d have fought tooth and nail to defend  Ben Knapper and SVH…

Indeed it’s an attempt to defend Barnes who today was utterly useless! To criticise a player who’s only had 32 minutes till today is sad! Not something I think hogs would normally do!

[hogesar 9,676]

37 minutes ago, Indy said:

Indeed it’s an attempt to defend Barnes who today was utterly useless! To criticise a player who’s only had 32 minutes till today is sad! Not something I think hogs would normally do!

It's got nothing to do with defending Barnes who you're right, did have a poor game but still delivered far more for the team than SVH did; a sad and unfortunate fact.

There are some players you can see they have "something" even as they're adjusting. I remember hugely defending Vrancic when he first joined, because whilst he was a little of the pace his technical ability was clear - there was that "something".

All i'm saying is ive not seen anything from SVH

[canarybubbles 1,923]

I agree that he has appeared lumbering and clumsy so far, and has often looked as if he is playing in a different game from the rest of his team-mates (apart from the play for his assist, which was smooth and stylish).

But as others have said, look at how almost everyone on here saw Sargent as money down the drain. Yes, a few can hold their heads high and claim that they saw something in him, (not me, I was totally wrong), but there was almost a universal agreement that we had wasted millions on a load of rubbish. And we did that after half a season, not 32 minutes or whatever it is.

Nothing is gained by judging him so quickly, nor by attacking Knapper's decision to loan him.

 

Edited March 3 by canarybubbles

[BroadstairsR 2,174]

It is far too early and far too difficult to judge SVH's long-term prognosis as a City stalwart and star forward.

However, in the short-term, it does seem that his signing and it being just a loan with an option to buy hasn't been the best of moves.

I found myself hoping that it was Hwang (who was proving to be a quite active and more involved and experienced operator before his injury) who was on the pitch rather than Syd, who might turn out to be the right player at the wrong time.

And I thought I would never say that about Hwang, who seemed totally hopeless initially.

Edited March 3 by BroadstairsR

[CANARYKING 639]

Did he actually touch the ball ?

[Ken Hairy 3,773]

8 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

I want at the game, but it looked like it was chucking it down a lot of the time. That’s hardly going to bring out the best in any player, let alone one who’s had about 30 minutes so far.

Chucking it down is an understatement 

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,286]

8 hours ago, chicken said:

Even last season.

Nope.

[Mason 47 1,382]

Bit surprised at this thread from you, @hogesar. You've spent plenty of time wading into exactly these sorts of topic to defend Wagner, McLean, Gibson etc. Even on the current McLean thread, saying football fans have no patience.

I can't agree that we look obviously weaker since we swapped Idah for SvH; 14 points from 18, 13 goals scored in 6 games. Not much of that was down to Sydney of course, but I don't think we'd have scored any extra with Idah taking those 60 minutes of pitch time either.

 

[The Real Buh 3,444]

19 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

Bit surprised at this thread from you, @hogesar. You've spent plenty of time wading into exactly these sorts of topic to defend Wagner, McLean, Gibson etc. Even on the current McLean thread, saying football fans have no patience.

I can't agree that we look obviously weaker since we swapped Idah for SvH; 14 points from 18, 13 goals scored in 6 games. Not much of that was down to Sydney of course, but I don't think we'd have scored any extra with Idah taking those 60 minutes of pitch time either.

 

Whenever I see undying support for everything about the club I always think of this

 

[Dr Greenthumb 750]

7 hours ago, hogesar said:

It's got nothing to do with defending Barnes who you're right, did have a poor game but still delivered far more for the team than SVH did; a sad and unfortunate fact.

There are some players you can see they have "something" even as they're adjusting. I remember hugely defending Vrancic when he first joined, because whilst he was a little of the pace his technical ability was clear - there was that "something".

All i'm saying is ive not seen anything from SVH

It’s probably better to compare Barnes and SVH when the man in question gets the minutes Barnes is getting