Really good piece by Puntino

[Robert N. LiM 4,477]

https://www.alongcomenorwich.com/articles/why-we-boo-when-were-winning/

Lot of good points here by @Puntino

In particular, I agree with the point towards the end, that the club has an opportunity here, while things are as good as they've been on the pitch for a while.

Acknowledge the disconnect. Acknowledge that some comments by the club's leadership have not helped matters. Reinforce how crucial togetherness is. Make the point that we are coming into a crucial part of the season, the playoffs are a real possibility and we need everyone, regardless of their views of the last few years, to get behind the team.

On the Ball, City.

What I'm not sure about is who the best person is to deliver such a message...

 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,792]

Puntino? Played for Real Madrid didnt he?

[Monty13 2,247]

Based on interviews Attanasio is both the best and most logical person to IMO. Maybe once everything is ratified he’ll maybe do some press.

[Robert N. LiM 4,477]

1 minute ago, Monty13 said:

Based on interviews Attanasio is both the best and most logical person to IMO. Maybe once everything is ratified he’ll maybe do some press.

In general I agree, but I think something needs to be said this week, before the Cardiff game. Not sure MA is man for this, given he hasn't yet passed the 'fit and proper person' test

[The Real Buh 3,480]

It’s very, very simple 

Delia and her parasitic board must leave.

the jig is, as they say, up.

[Google Bot 3,299]

11 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Acknowledge the disconnect. Acknowledge that some comments by the club's leadership have not helped matters. Reinforce how crucial togetherness is.

Only Knapper can do that, Delia is too emotional and Wagner has the language barrier to be so precise in the terminology to be used.

Maybe we could practise writing the script, and send it to him?

[jaberry2 555]

7 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Only Knapper can do that, Delia is too emotional and Wagner has the language barrier to be so precise in the terminology to be used.

Maybe we could practise writing the script, and send it to him?

Yes its Knappers place to back up his manager and add unity. If he decides that radio silence is the answer, then that shows his character. *albeit he likes to not listen to the noise 😉

[littleyellowbirdie 2,590]

24 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

In general I agree, but I think something needs to be said this week, before the Cardiff game. Not sure MA is man for this, given he hasn't yet passed the 'fit and proper person' test

I don't think anything needs to be said. Our upward trajectory is speaking for itself. I also think having booed what the manager was doing mid-game only for the team to actually pull itself together in spite of the negative views to what the manager was doing and negative noises, it should prompt a bit of humility and patience from those responsible, and a recognition that no matter how good their understanding of the game is, they don't know everything.

This 'disconnect' stuff is nonsense. The club informs people what's going on whether we're playing well or badly. The only 'disconnect' is the difference between the reality of what the club can do and the unrealistic expectations of a minority.

The earliest it will start to matter again about what's happening at the board level is the Summer. For now, the football is where it's at.

Edited February 14 by littleyellowbirdie

[The Real Buh 3,480]

5 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I don't think anything needs to be said. Our upward trajectory is speaking for itself. I also think having booed what the manager was doing mid-game only for the team to actually pull itself together in spite of the negative views to what the manager was doing and negative noises, it should prompt a bit of humility and patience from those responsible, and a recognition that no matter how good their understanding of the game is, they don't know everything.

This 'disconnect' stuff is nonsense. The club informs people what's going on whether we're playing well or badly. The only 'disconnect' is the difference between the reality of what the club can do and the unrealistic expectations of a minority.

See this is what I am talking about on my other thread.

This post/poster seems 80%ish but, it’s not. Look a little closer.

You can tell that this is a kite flyer post. Delia leaves? I’m in favour, Wagner leaves? who’s the odds on replacement. Kind of a 2 dimensional look on things.

[Robert N. LiM 4,477]

19 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I don't think anything needs to be said. Our upward trajectory is speaking for itself. I also think having booed what the manager was doing mid-game only for the team to actually pull itself together in spite of the negative views to what the manager was doing and negative noises, it should prompt a bit of humility and patience from those responsible, and a recognition that no matter how good their understanding of the game is, they don't know everything.

Agreed. But as the article suggested, it should also prompt a bit of humility from the club to acknowledge that this stuff doesn't come out of the blue, that Webber's comments about divorcés, Delia's comments at the AGM etc didn't help – and that repairing the relationship between the club and the fans will take some movement on both sides.

 

19 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

This 'disconnect' stuff is nonsense. The club informs people what's going on whether we're playing well or badly. The only 'disconnect' is the difference between the reality of what the club can do and the unrealistic expectations of a minority.

I'm afraid this just isn't true. While I'm sure some do have unrealistic expectations and would always be unsatisfied, there are a lot of calm, informed people (such as the author of the article, and plenty on this messageboard) who don't have ridiculous expectations of what the club can achieve, but still feel that the club needs to do a better job of communicating with fans, of building that togetherness that can do so much to help the team. People don't boo a substitution when the team is winning out of nowhere. I think I'm right in saying that you don't go to games live. I've only been to one this season - so I think we have to have the decency of acknowledging what people in the stadium are noting.

 

19 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

The earliest it will start to matter again about what's happening at the board level is the Summer. For now, the football is where it's at.

Agree. But the football is being affected by the disconnect, so it matters now. Apart from anything else, Wagner needs support from someone above him. As I say, I'm not sure who this should be - but someone needs to show some leadership.

Edited February 15 by Robert N. LiM
typo

[Capt. Pants 4,276]

Agree with much of the article but I fear we will continue to have fan v fan v head coach v club hierarchy. It's not even results based now and it's difficult to envisage a scenario where we have unity. The following extract highlights that wow moment last night. I'm not sure Knapper has the capability to bring us altogether but he's going to have to tear himself away from his data, pathways and trading models and have a go...

What appears to be increasingly obvious is the ongoing presence of division and discontent, ready to pop out from under the undersoil heating at the first sign of things going south. Rather than dismiss this as unacceptable fan behaviour, the club could perhaps treat it as a catalyst to do something. This is actually an opportunity, a wake-up call; not just fans whinging. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,590]

 

6 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Agreed. But as the article suggested, it should also prompt a bit of humility from the club to acknowledge that this stuff doesn't come out of the blue, that Webber's comments about divorcés, Delia's comments at the AGM etc didn't help – and that repairing the relationship between the club and the fans will take some movement on both sides.

 

I'm afraid just this isn't true. While I'm sure some do have unrealistic expectations and would always be unsatisfied, there are a lot of calm, informed people (such as the author of the article, and plenty on this messageboard) who don't have ridiculous expectations of what the club can achieve, but still feel that the club needs to do a better job of communicating with fans, of building that togetherness that can do so much to help the team. People don't boo a substitution when the team is winning out of nowhere. I think I'm right in saying that you don't go to games live. I've only been to one this season - so I think we have to have the decency of acknowledging what people in the stadium are noting.

 

Agree. But the football is being affected by the disconnect, so it matters now. Apart from anything else, Wagner needs support from someone above him. As I say, I'm not sure who this should be - but someone needs to show some leadership.

4 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Agreed. But as the article suggested, it should also prompt a bit of humility from the club to acknowledge that this stuff doesn't come out of the blue, that Webber's comments about divorcés, Delia's comments at the AGM etc didn't help – and that repairing the relationship between the club and the fans will take some movement on both sides.

 

I'm afraid just this isn't true. While I'm sure some do have unrealistic expectations and would always be unsatisfied, there are a lot of calm, informed people (such as the author of the article, and plenty on this messageboard) who don't have ridiculous expectations of what the club can achieve, but still feel that the club needs to do a better job of communicating with fans, of building that togetherness that can do so much to help the team. People don't boo a substitution when the team is winning out of nowhere. I think I'm right in saying that you don't go to games live. I've only been to one this season - so I think we have to have the decency of acknowledging what people in the stadium are noting.

 

Agree. But the football is being affected by the disconnect, so it matters now. Apart from anything else, Wagner needs support from someone above him. As I say, I'm not sure who this should be - but someone needs to show some leadership.

What is the club supposed to be failing to communicate about? While the business over share holdings etc. is interesting and I'd like to know, I get the communications that are relevant during the season, namely what the manager says before and after the game. This is only an issue because some people seem to believe that we're not being told things that have been decided but haven't actually necessarily been decided at all.

If the football is being affected by the disconnect, which I still am far convinced is a real thing beyond trying to blame the club for fans being unhappy for no really good reason, which is understandable from a PR point of view that doesn't affect me as an onlooker - Webber has gone now and that was the main source of grievance for those who get overly obsessed with personality - it's purely affected by how fans are reacting to the disconnect, which is entirely down to them.

[Robert N. LiM 4,477]

6 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

What is the club supposed to be failing to communicate about?

 

When I said this -

20 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

the club needs to do a better job of communicating with fans

 - I wasn't talking about content, I was talking about manner, just to be clear. I think there's been fault on both sides here (ill-advised booing vs ill-advised criticism of fans), and if we're to move forward I think the leadership of the club has to say something to acknowledge that.

(I'm not intending to get into a back-and-forth with you on this, just so you know. We'll probably have to agree to disagree on the whether some movement from the club as well as fans is necessary. But I thought I should answer your question. All the best.)

[Robert N. LiM 4,477]

1 hour ago, Google Bot said:

Only Knapper can do that, Delia is too emotional and Wagner has the language barrier to be so precise in the terminology to be used.

In the absence of a chairperson ( @shefcanary 😉 ) it might have to be Knapper, much as I think the SD should ideally stay in the background.

I think opinions on Delia are too entrenched to make much difference at this stage, and I think it needs to be someone above Wagner, since part of the message needs to be to get behind the coach and players at this crucial stage of the season. If I were Wagner I'd be wanting some support from above.

[PurpleCanary 5,580]

I stopped reading after this:

However, just as we saw on Saturday, there were perfectly good and plausible reasons for the individual players’ respective withdrawals. It’s just that contextually, it seemed like a complete misstep

 

 

Edited February 14 by PurpleCanary

[NewNestCarrow 202]

Interestingly not one Boo-er has had the balls to stand up and say "I was wrong. The subs were necessary because of factors that were not known to me and, in spite of my childish & selfish outburst, Wagner coached my team to a win against a top-6 rival"

[The Real Buh 3,480]

33 minutes ago, NewNestCarrow said:

Interestingly not one Boo-er has had the balls to stand up and say "I was wrong. The subs were necessary because of factors that were not known to me and, in spite of my childish & selfish outburst, Wagner coached my team to a win against a top-6 rival"

Also interesting is that it would appear, unless I’m mistaken, that Delias self appointed golden guardians didn’t challenge any of the “booers” in the ground.

Did they hedge there bets and sit on the fence and until we got another “David Wagner stares at the scoreboard at the end of the game looking like a Labrador that’s just seen a magic trick baffled at how he’s won the game” win before voicing their concerns at booing? Would they literally tow any line whatsoever that the club rolled out without question? I’ll leave it to you all to decide.

Edited February 14 by The Real Buh

[RobJames 890]

2 hours ago, The Real Buh said:

See this is what I am talking about on my other thread.

This post/poster seems 80%ish but, it’s not. Look a little closer.

You can tell that this is a kite flyer post. Delia leaves? I’m in favour, Wagner leaves? who’s the odds on replacement. Kind of a 2 dimensional look on things.

Shut up, you tedious little troll !

[The Real Buh 3,480]

1 minute ago, RobJames said:

Shut up, you tedious little troll !

Here’s the attention you ordered.

[yellowrider120 782]

3 hours ago, Robert N. LiM said:

https://www.alongcomenorwich.com/articles/why-we-boo-when-were-winning/

Lot of good points here by @Puntino

In particular, I agree with the point towards the end, that the club has an opportunity here, while things are as good as they've been on the pitch for a while.

Acknowledge the disconnect. Acknowledge that some comments by the club's leadership have not helped matters. Reinforce how crucial togetherness is. Make the point that we are coming into a crucial part of the season, the playoffs are a real possibility and we need everyone, regardless of their views of the last few years, to get behind the team.

On the Ball, City.

What I'm not sure about is who the best person is to deliver such a message...

 

Well there is zero chance of that happening as that would entail a criticism of D Smith's tirade at the AGM. No-one at NCFC will venture anywhere near taking that stance publicly.

[Fen Canary 866]

All this nonsense about a lack of communication from the club, what exactly is it that you want them to communicate? Why do you need to know everything that’s happening of the day to day running at the club?

”Today Josh Sargent had two pieces of toast for breakfast, Angus Gunn stubbed his toe on the door and Ashley Barnes had to be tasered by police after wrestling the tea lady to the ground!”

It’s just rubbish. Too many live on social media and expect everybody else to post every mundane aspect of their lives, forgetting that they’re the ones in a very noisy minority 

[Corbs1 90]

Should the club be tucking us up in bed, with hot cocoa and a story?

[shefcanary 2,446]

I've long argued that the club is not doing the basic communication (bread and butter fan engagement) well. The point of sale contact is often lacking, the fact that in a cost of living crisis the club is charging the highest ST price in the Championship, that they concentrate on flashy & expensive employee driven video projects rather than reacting quickly to fan issues are all signs of disconnect. The angle of the floodlights, the poor PA, the choice of pre-match playlist, even plastic glasses in the L&C, the poor handling of the share allocation and the lack of regular and clear updates on it are further signs of disconnect.

I appreciate many on here can reasonably argue they are not affected by any of this, but there are plenty of regular complaints and plenty of other people who reasonably care about such matters. And so the shruggers (I apologise if this sounds dismissive but its not meant to be, it is just a way to give a short name to them) are affected, because as they shrug and occasionally take the **** out of people who are, so those same people react by booing the ever increasingly difficult to understand tactical choices made by Wagner - because without any other valid route to get heard this is one way of voicing their disquiet - leading to an equal and just as damaging to supporter unity reaction from the shruggers.

Now I hear those shruggers saying how the hell can booing Wagners substitutions be because of all those examples of disconnect? Well if those supporters were generally happy with those areas at issue, they wouldn't be so quick to react to percoeved poor on pitch performance, perhaps shrugging themselves and vowing to support the team.

This is the point Puntino is trying to make. His work with ACN did much to support Farke's efforts in the past. I have seen the club trying to work with City Elite earlier this season. But both such connections have not been persevered with by the club, possibly because things became too much hard work for club staff who preferred to work on flashy videos. The club could do worse by spending more time fostering stronger links with such organisations. 

However more simply there has to be a way to hear clear, unambiguous statements on a regular basis from the club, not hiding behind programme notes because they just aren't bought anymore. Instead of flashy videos how about a proper TV weekly pre-match programme with appearances from a rolling cast of behind the scenes staff,  a look at recent tactical choices by the coaches, and invited representatives of the supporter base to raise issues they have. 

That sort of engagement works well at lots of other clubs. I used to enjoy the weekly videos the club used to produce 10 years ago. Whilst I enjoy The City View, it rarely shows anything of any consequence.

Come on Zoe et al, as @Robert N. LiM and @Puntino have suggested, the reconnection  has to start with the club. After all we could get promoted this year, it would be good if we all were on the same page.

OTBC 

Edited February 14 by shefcanary

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,377]

7 hours ago, Robert N. LiM said:

https://www.alongcomenorwich.com/articles/why-we-boo-when-were-winning/

Lot of good points here by @Puntino

In particular, I agree with the point towards the end, that the club has an opportunity here, while things are as good as they've been on the pitch for a while.

Acknowledge the disconnect. Acknowledge that some comments by the club's leadership have not helped matters. Reinforce how crucial togetherness is. Make the point that we are coming into a crucial part of the season, the playoffs are a real possibility and we need everyone, regardless of their views of the last few years, to get behind the team.

On the Ball, City.

What I'm not sure about is who the best person is to deliver such a message...

 

I vote for Cambridgeshire. I reckon the club is missing a trick not getting them on PR 😉

[sgncfc 1,253]

In terms of communication, it might be nice to know why we allowed Idah, our second highest goalscorer and a proven threat from the subs bench this season, to leave on loan when we replaced him with someone who wasn't actually ready to play and who had to "get used to the Championship".

It might be nice to know why Wagner named two goalkeepers on the bench on two occasions when he had other options.

It might be nice to know why we played Hanley at QPR when he was apparently unfit, which cost us their second goal.

And the old stagers of course - why we still haven't tactically sorted the lack of a CDM, allowing almost every opposition team to waltz through our midfield on several occasions; why we concede the initiative in almost every game, often with early and obviously daft substitutions and why some of our players, who are paid tens of thousands of pounds a week to be footballers, are still apparently unable to pass the ball to a team-mate in the simplest of situations.

We beat Watford and for the first 30 and the last 20 minutes we played as if we cared. The middle 50 or so, not so much. We gave them - literally gave them, two gilt edged chances which they missed, by stupid passes (Maclean and Barnes - two of the players who were probably our best on the night). We defended like an under 8s team. Their first goal was scored because two players were completely unmarked within yards of our goal. We beat Coventry because they missed and Gunn saved three almost open goals, when again we defended woefully. I've genuinely never seen a player so guilty of ballwatching as Fassnacht. Yet our coaches seem not to have noticed.

Victories yes, but not remotely deserved or comfortable. We seldom have the majority of possession and the amount of shots we allow the opposition in every game tells you all you need to know about the lack of control we have on a game. Scrambled wins are better than what was happening of course, when we frequently snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, but don't be fooled into thinking we are playing with any sort of a masterplan.

I don't boo. But I also don't appreciate those who do being told they're not welcome by a manager who doesn't seem to understand that fanbase. 

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,590]

6 hours ago, sgncfc said:

I don't boo. But I also don't appreciate those who do being told they're not welcome by a manager who doesn't seem to understand that fanbase. 

 

Understand? People took exception to Smith for reasons completely mystifying to me, but supposedly for not appearing to 'like' the fans. This one clearly was aware of that and has been as humble as a monk regarding the fans his entire tenure, with much criticism coming his way, but never ever biting back until this point, where, frankly, those on the receiving end of his criticism 100% earned it. Nobody doing any job should put up with being treated with as little respect as Wagner was the other night.

Edited February 15 by littleyellowbirdie

[canarybubbles 1,939]

12 hours ago, yellowrider120 said:

Well there is zero chance of that happening as that would entail a criticism of D Smith's tirade at the AGM. No-one at NCFC will venture anywhere near taking that stance publicly.

Sadly, yes. Smith's fit of pique has led to a situation where the club simply cannot publicly move because any announcement would be read as a veiled criticism of her. Smith herself could do something to try to offer an olive branch, I suppose, but the signs are that she has no intention of showing such magnanimity of spirit.

It wouldn't have to be mea culpa. It could even be one of those glossy videos the club put out in the belief that this constitutes engaging with the fans. A simple interview where she says something like we all make mistakes, including me, no one is perfect, but I'm sure we all have the club's interests at heart whatever our differences of opinion so I hope we can all pull together when we are just fourteen games away from making the playoffs. It might not work - perhaps the disconnect has become too great - but it would put pressure on unhappy fans to respond in kind.  

[duke63 545]

Booing the team and players isnt going to give the booers what they want.

Ulitmately the best players will not what to remain at a club where there is bad feeling and discontent.

[sgncfc 1,253]

6 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Understand? People took exception to Smith for reasons completely mystifying to me, but supposedly for not appearing to 'like' the fans. This one clearly was aware of that and has been as humble as a monk regarding the fans his entire tenure, with much criticism coming his way, but never ever biting back until this point, where, frankly, those on the receiving end of his criticism 100% earned it. Nobody doing any job should put up with being treated with as little respect as Wagner was the other night.

But we all know that owners and managers who criticise the clubs fans are in the last chance saloon. Wagner's only chance of keeping his job is to get promotion, and even then he might be moved on.

[Google Bot 3,299]

9 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

But we all know that owners and managers who criticise the clubs fans are in the last chance saloon.

Such as Pep and Klopp, you mean?