Wagner has gone nuclear

[Mello Yello 2,302]

3 hours ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

 

Not so great when you fancy one of those ‘ Pictures of Lily ‘ relaxing by yourself evenings then ?

The glove of love....or Lady Palm and her five six lovely daughters.....(Forgot we're in Norfolk)....

Edited February 14 by Mello Yello

[Nexus_Canary 1,024]

15 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Oh so you don't like it when someone points out your failings then, is that the new rule now?

Failings on a msg in a forum typed on a phone with auto fill.

Wow.

 

Get a life, get laid, do something.

[Newtopia 519]

57 minutes ago, hogesar said:

When the fans couldn't be bothered to support earlier in the season they certainly stated it was down to Webber. They said he needed to go to improve things.

Well he did go, we've got injured players back and are considerably better on the pitch for it. But the same fans have continued to try and create some toxic environment and make it as difficult as possible for the players and manager to succeed.

 

God knows what the club is supposed to do. Every week post a "sorry we're mean and horrible" tweet? It's beyond me how soft football fans apparently are "we boooooo because we're DISILLUSIONED" 

"what are you disillusioned about?"

"THE CLUB"

"Yeah but what about the club?"

"The sporting director"

"But he's gone and been replaced..."

"Well the new one hasn't said anything!"

"He spoke last week"

"....Ok smarty pants, well the owners then!"

"They're changing too"

"....BUT NOT FAST ENOUGH FOR ME! ALSO BOO WAGNER SUBS!"

You forgot to include that it was all Idah’s fault this season, Gibson last season and Sargent the season before. 

[Fen Canary 863]

8 hours ago, S_81 said:

Yes I agree. Especially at this level. The fact we’ve lost the amount we have yet still 6th shows how average this league is from 4th downwards - and what a difference a handful of players can make. Particularly our attacking players. Which is why the fans get so agitated if Wagner doesn’t maximise that strength. 

Where has this b0ll0cks come from? It’s not an average league, it’s no better or worse than it’s always been. Saying it’s an average league is simply another stick to beat the manager, implying that we should be walking it because we’re above everybody else.

The 2nd tier has always been closely matched, that’s what made it such an exciting division 

[C.I.D 303]

21 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

Where has this b0ll0cks come from? It’s not an average league, it’s no better or worse than it’s always been. Saying it’s an average league is simply another stick to beat the manager, implying that we should be walking it because we’re above everybody else.

The 2nd tier has always been closely matched, that’s what made it such an exciting division 

How dare you even think of challenging the football experts on here 😮

[Mason 47 1,391]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

When the fans couldn't be bothered to support earlier in the season they certainly stated it was down to Webber. They said he needed to go to improve things.

Well he did go, we've got injured players back and are considerably better on the pitch for it. But the same fans have continued to try and create some toxic environment and make it as difficult as possible for the players and manager to succeed.

 

God knows what the club is supposed to do. Every week post a "sorry we're mean and horrible" tweet? It's beyond me how soft football fans apparently are "we boooooo because we're DISILLUSIONED" 

"what are you disillusioned about?"

"THE CLUB"

"Yeah but what about the club?"

"The sporting director"

"But he's gone and been replaced..."

"Well the new one hasn't said anything!"

"He spoke last week"

"....Ok smarty pants, well the owners then!"

"They're changing too"

"....BUT NOT FAST ENOUGH FOR ME! ALSO BOO WAGNER SUBS!"

I would add to this the phenomena of stating that the club holds an 'us vs them' stance whilst holding an 'us vs them' stance.

This is what I've been trying to get my head around with this disconnect/ disillusionment thing. The parameters for the club solving the issues from their side seem to be simply impossible to fulfill. Meanwhile there is little to no interest in trying to build bridges from the other end.

All we ask, is that we have a manager who buys into the club, cares, has the players behind him and is capable of hitting at least Championship top 6. Unless it's the one we have already.

 

Edited February 14 by Mason 47

[Conrad 178]

46 minutes ago, Newtopia said:

You forgot to include that it was all Idah’s fault this season, Gibson last season and Sargent the season before. 

What about Kenny. He is the perpetual scapegoat. 

[Gordon Bennett 789]

I don't understand why our fans think they're untouchable. It's ok to criticise everyone from the moment the team is announced an hour before kick off and to boo during the game it would seem, and if we don't win to go to town on the manager and any players seen as fair game, not to mention the owners and those working for them. Yet a little bit comes back and it's the end of the the world. Same principle as folk who sit in the front row of football atadiums, abuse opposition players and then scream the place down if a player reacts. Utter entitlement. 

[norfolkngood 1,087]

It has been a crazy season 

The most division I feel has been caused at board level comments 

but our fans have been very quiet when we have been doing so well recently very strange just like the season 

But Wagner should remember he got a very easy ride off the same fans when things were going badly earlier on 

He could of said I got good support from these fans when we were struggling to get results these fans are fantastic hopefully they are happy with the result in the end 

that would of been better way of saying my subs worked and you were wrong to boo

[Google Bot 3,298]

23 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

Meanwhile there is little to no interest in trying to build bridges from the other end.

I think since McNally there was a definite shift to fans becoming more related to as customers and it's built from that, this is why many people take the "I've paid so I expect a good service" stance to justify why the club should be the ones that bow on the basis that the customer is always right.

[hogesar 9,722]

40 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

I would add to this the phenomena of stating that the club holds an 'us vs them' stance whilst holding an 'us vs them' stance.

This is what I've been trying to get my head around with this disconnect/ disillusionment thing. The parameters for the club solving the issues from their side seem to be simply impossible to fulfill. Meanwhile there is little to no interest in trying to build bridges from the other end.

All we ask, is that we have a manager who buys into the club, cares, has the players behind him and is capable of hitting at least Championship top 6. Unless it's the one we have already.

 

Hard to disagree with any of that.

[Sufyellow 222]

20 hours ago, The Bunny said:

He's right of course. The level of whinging amongst the "support" at this club is a total embarrassment. It doesn't matter if we win or lose, whether we play well or not, a significant section of the fanbase will never be happy. 

Even at away games, sections of the fans around me have booed our own players. I can't fathom why someone would travel halfway across the country just to boo their own team. Do you geniuses think that's going to help their performances? Just stay the f**k at home, morons.

I went to Stoke away , I don't understand why 2000 fans travel away and looked so miserable before we had even kicked a ball,  to then not sing virtually the whole game. Should they all have stayed at home? 

[daly 507]

21 hours ago, Rupethebear said:

Wagner be careful what you wish for, if we all stayed at home half the STs would be unsold.

The booing was done by a large number of fans, even in The Jarrod, and was in relation to who came on not who went off.

 

Don’t think so apart from a few usual mouthy ones who are so pissed that it’s the linesman first

Ref second

Gibson normally,  then the substitutions

Wagners right there sort don’t help the team

 

 

 

[Sufyellow 222]

11 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

No he didn't. He rebuked a portion of fans arrogant enough to behave abusively to manager and players alike on the back of taking off a tired player and bringing on a fresh one.

It's one thing questioning decisions after the game and after you've seen the outcome; it's another to actively undermine the decision, the managers authority, and the players confidence during the game.

I think the fans who clearly could see how damaging it was and started being more supportive in the face of it even while we were still on the back foot deserve credit. I don't believe there's any way they were the same people who started leading booing as soon as it was clear Sarge was coming off.

Of course fans who booed still supported the team vocally afterwards. What do you think they then sit in silence? It was a reaction to the subs not the whole team. I would be interested to know from people who sit bottom of barclay who actually booed , because it sounded like nearly all of them from above. 

[Sufyellow 222]

11 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

No he didn't. He rebuked a portion of fans arrogant enough to behave abusively to manager and players alike on the back of taking off a tired player and bringing on a fresh one.

It's one thing questioning decisions after the game and after you've seen the outcome; it's another to actively undermine the decision, the managers authority, and the players confidence during the game.

I think the fans who clearly could see how damaging it was and started being more supportive in the face of it even while we were still on the back foot deserve credit. I don't believe there's any way they were the same people who started leading booing as soon as it was clear Sarge was coming off.

Of course fans who booed still supported the team vocally afterwards. What do you think they then sit in silence? It was a reaction to the subs not the whole team. I would be interested to know from people who sit bottom of barclay who actually booed , because it sounded like nearly all of them from above. 

[Sufyellow 222]

11 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I think you'll find that even in the same stands, the fans in there are actually different people from each other. Someone started the booing and others joined in, then someone else started pushing back and others will have decided that was a better idea.

The people who led the booing are the real problem.

So if we join in we are ok? It wasn't a couple of hundred booing it was alot more.

[The Real Buh 3,478]

Just now, Sufyellow said:

So if we join in we are ok? It wasn't a couple of hundred booing it was alot more.

This is all leading to a booing name and shame thing where people text the seat number of someone who’s booed or put it on tik tok or whatever. Boring 80%er behaviour.

[Sufyellow 222]

11 hours ago, Badger said:

The entire stand only holds 6,000!

The ones that care would not seek to undermine their team. As I said above, the club would be better off without those that do undermine it.

So everyone that booed? I am sure other parts of the ground joined in 

[NFN FC 1,123]

Wagner has always been unclear!

[The Real Buh 3,478]

Can you guys imagine if Wagner actually did go Nuclear and started attacking Japan? That’s be some wild stuff right there.

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,297]

7 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

Can you guys imagine if Wagner actually did go Nuclear and started attacking Japan? That’s be some wild stuff right there.

WTF are you on……. Don’t stop mind, i like it 😂

[Sufyellow 222]

10 hours ago, Badger said:

 

As I said in my post above, it has been hard work for all City fans at times over the last few seasons. However, we must not confuse the understandable frustration of most fans with the perpetual anti-club campaigning but a minority of "anti-fans" who oppose everything that does the club does and implacably opposed to it.

Think of it as an isosceles triangle standing on its base: the top of the cone has a small number of anti-fans that are simply opposed to the club; below that is a larger group that are impatient and turn very quickly at the first sign of difficulty (fair weather supporters); below them is a larger group who are more patient but can become vocally frustrated etc etc.

At the base there is a group of fans that I believe to be the majority, who would not boo the players and club during the game. We might argue about how far down the triangle or pyramid the disillusionment might lie, but sure we agree that we are better of without the anti-fans and the fair weather supporters?

The fair weather supporters weren't there so you can't blame them.  It was raining,  they stayed at home. 

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,297]

Isolated to last night, the boo’s are easy to criticise. 

But context is everything.

[Sufyellow 222]

10 hours ago, Badger said:

Just about sums it up really.

Of course you are within your legal rights to do so, but if you had any empathy you would understand why real fans might think we would be better off without you.

So anyone who booed the substitution is not a real fan? 

[shefcanary 2,444]

11 hours ago, Satriales said:

The fact that they were booing whilst we were winning 2-1 is what surprised me the most. Yes Watford equalised but it was an absolute worldie, the subs did make an impact and we won 4-2.

Or the booing worked - it made the team face up to their responsibilities?

[The Real Buh 3,478]

3 minutes ago, Sufyellow said:

So anyone who booed the substitution is not a real fan? 

Is there a scale from “mild grumble” to “robust ghost noise” on this real fan / boo chart that’s being developed by the low intelligence, digitally minded fanbase who only know “bitty good, boo bad”?

[Jim Smith 2,339]

As always it flows from the top and the Stowmarket 2 manufacturing the slowest takeover known to mankind has not helped. We haven’t even had a morale boost from that. Only club I can ever think of where a takeover by someone like MA becomes a source of frustration rather than optimism. 
 

Add to that the leadership vacuum and the ghost of Webber still hovering over everything and it doesn’t really feel like we’ve moved on as much as I think most fans would like. If Knapper arriving had been accompanied by a new coach then results may not have been markedly better (as they have been ok since then) but the feeling of the club moving to a new chapter would have felt stronger.

As it is we are still essentially saddled with the same owners under whom we’ve consistently been unable to compete at prem level and a coach that most fans do not see as the man to take us forward. 

 

[The Real Buh 3,478]

4 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

As always it flows from the top and the Stowmarket 2 manufacturing the slowest takeover known to mankind has not helped. We haven’t even had a morale boost from that. Only club I can ever think of where a takeover by someone like MA becomes a source of frustration rather than optimism. 
 

Add to that the leadership vacuum and the ghost of Webber still hovering over everything and it doesn’t really feel like we’ve moved on as much as I think most fans would like. If Knapper arriving had been accompanied by a new coach then results may not have been markedly better (as they have been ok since then) but the feeling of the club moving to a new chapter would have felt stronger.

As it is we are still essentially saddled with the same owners under whom we’ve consistently been unable to compete at prem level and a coach that most fans do not see as the man to take us forward. 

 

We’ve never had an opportunity at a clean slate. There’s always some remnant hanging around.

This whole Delia handover shenanigans by the way, needs to be treated with the absolute contempt it deserves. It’s insanity.

[Sufyellow 222]

10 hours ago, Newtopia said:

Booing is the opposite of supporting.  Therefore if you boo you aren’t a supporter.  Could be a fan, but definitely not supportive.  Tbh Webber and Wagner said similar rungs and they weren’t wrong,

So if I sing all the way through the game,  and then boo a substitution,  I am not a supporter? They were both wrong,  you don't tell your customers, fans to go and support someone else , or don't come to football, if the fans took him up on it last night there will be 18,000 fans next season,  that's another player to sell. Our fan base keep us where we are . 

[Monty13 2,241]

1 hour ago, Mason 47 said:

I would add to this the phenomena of stating that the club holds an 'us vs them' stance whilst holding an 'us vs them' stance.

This is what I've been trying to get my head around with this disconnect/ disillusionment thing. The parameters for the club solving the issues from their side seem to be simply impossible to fulfill. Meanwhile there is little to no interest in trying to build bridges from the other end.

All we ask, is that we have a manager who buys into the club, cares, has the players behind him and is capable of hitting at least Championship top 6. Unless it's the one we have already.

 

Do you think that supporters hold that view in response to things or organically of their own accord?

What do you think the parameters are out of interest? Because personally my read of the situation is they aren’t impossible, but if they are it’s probably because things have been pushed too far.

Also why would the onus be on supporters to make the first move to rebuild bridges?

Honestly I’d just like to understand peoples view on how they see this being resolved because I’m lost. As far as I can see it’s not going to get resolved without some intervention from someone senior at the club.

I’ve worked in some pretty toxic organisations unfortunately where I saw examples of both employees and customers being disillusioned, and that was only resolved by intervention by leadership in my experience.

A supporters relationship is unique but I don’t see any real difference in resolution.

Do people genuinely think a large proportion of the most vocal supporters will either just leave (careful what you wish for) or get over it? As far as I can see it simply won’t happen.