27 points from the last 15 games…

[nutty nigel 7,537]

Does this qualify as a sustained run of form?

[Robert N. LiM 4,357]

But is it sustainable?

Seriously, that's an amazing tally, and includes a fair few games against the top sides and Ipswich. As I said on the match thread yesterday, I've given up trying to understand it. I don't think we're very good and I think we should now finish in the top six. One of the weirdest seasons I can remember.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,720]

2 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

But is it sustainable?

Seriously, that's an amazing tally, and includes a fair few games against the top sides and Ipswich. As I said on the match thread yesterday, I've given up trying to understand it. I don't think we're very good and I think we should now finish in the top six. One of the weirdest seasons I can remember.

Don't think its that weird that our poor run of form was when we had our best players out injured

[S_81 797]

It’s certainly fascinating that the upturn in results (not always performances, however) has coincided with Knapper starting. Of course we’ve also had key players return. But whether a motivator for Wagner, or the players, to buck up their ideas - it also makes you wonder what hands on role Knapper has played. 

[Capt. Pants 4,234]

Credit to Wagner for digging in. He's prepared to make himself unpopular sometimes with rather negative tactics, but it's largely worked.

With the attacking players we have we should be making the top 6, but with the defence and the way we still give away silly goals (again yesterday), we possibly won't.

[Gordon Bennett 783]

Considering the game before the run was the Blackburn debacle it's a pretty remarkable stat.

[Kingston Yellow 220]

17 minutes ago, S_81 said:

It’s certainly fascinating that the upturn in results (not always performances, however) has coincided with Knapper starting. Of course we’ve also had key players return. But whether a motivator for Wagner, or the players, to buck up their ideas - it also makes you wonder what hands on role Knapper has played. 

Often agree with you, but clearly the biggest impact is our forward players back from injury.  Just shows what a shambles the summer transfer window was, when we signed Wan, when we knew Josh wasn’t available for 5/6 months. What a joke. Imagine where we’d be if we’d actually spent some of the millions we banked. 

Edited February 4 by Kingston Yellow

[Mason 47 1,379]

I must admit I've been one banging the sustainable drum, but you just can't argue with the points return. Well, I won't, but I've never been particularly anti-Wagner; I'm sure some will.

We look now to have some viable threats that will make teams have to think twice. If we can cut out the occasional Sunday league error we should be a match for most

 

[canarybubbles 1,915]

4 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

I must admit I've been one banging the sustainable drum, but you just can't argue with the points return. Well, I won't, but I've never been particularly anti-Wagner; I'm sure some will.

We look now to have some viable threats that will make teams have to think twice. If we can cut out the occasional Sunday league error we should be a match for most

 

Let's start by not using a throw-in to launch the ball into our own penalty area. Sometimes the sheer creativity that our defenders show in finding new ways to screw up is really impressive.

[RobJames 881]

3 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

But is it sustainable?

Seriously, that's an amazing tally, and includes a fair few games against the top sides and Ipswich. As I said on the match thread yesterday, I've given up trying to understand it. I don't think we're very good and I think we should now finish in the top six. One of the weirdest seasons I can remember.

It needs to be.

Hull in 6th are targeted to finish in 71 points. If we were to play our remaining games at that level (27 out of 15) we would finish on 73 points.

As to being 'very good', we are. We are good enough to win games and pick up points.  Maybe it is a fair bit of 'roughhouse' as Mark Robbins claimed, all in wrestling as Barnes showed at Millwall or just us being fiercely combative to make up for any deficiencies in the finer arts of the game. Either way it is working.

We have not been dominated recently, and you have to go back to the first week of October before we were beaten (league) by two goals. Players have been improving and we look to finally have a settled 11, give or take one or two. However our points total and better play only mean we have a better chance of a play off spot now. Nothing else, and there's 'many a slip between cup and lip".

A lot will happen over this final third of the season, but we have fought hard and deserve to be in the mix at this stage. The only target is to keep grinding out results and picking up points. The rest is in the hands of the gods.

[Worthy Nigelton 1,049]

48 minutes ago, S_81 said:

It’s certainly fascinating that the upturn in results (not always performances, however) has coincided with Knapper starting. Of course we’ve also had key players return. But whether a motivator for Wagner, or the players, to buck up their ideas - it also makes you wonder what hands on role Knapper has played. 

Webber going has lifted an enormous cloud over the club for sure, but the difference is getting everyone fit. Wagner deserves credit for showing balls of steel to dig in and get through the tough times. We can really do this - I think we all now believe, don't we?

[CANARYKING 638]

Gained 27, lost 18

[canarybubbles 1,915]

17 minutes ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

Webber going has lifted an enormous cloud over the club for sure, but the difference is getting everyone fit. Wagner deserves credit for showing balls of steel to dig in and get through the tough times. We can really do this - I think we all now believe, don't we?

As Hogesar says, Webber deserves credit for bringing in Sainz, Sara, Gunn and Sargent, but against that there is the toxic atmosphere that he helped to create between the club and the fans (and perhaps also, if we are to believe the rumours, within the club). He had to go before we could start to rebuild for the future. He is talented, but IMO will always fail long-term because of the way he operates. His career will be one of fantastic beginnings followed by conflict and ultimate failure. Personally, for all his undoubted talent, I am so glad he is out of our club forever. 

[Robert N. LiM 4,357]

1 hour ago, S_81 said:

It’s certainly fascinating that the upturn in results (not always performances, however) has coincided with Knapper starting. Of course we’ve also had key players return. But whether a motivator for Wagner, or the players, to buck up their ideas - it also makes you wonder what hands on role Knapper has played. 

Most noticeably the goals-against column, which was a disgrace for such an expensively-assembled squad when Knapper arrived. Whatever else he's done, it's hard to imagine that one of his first conversations with Wagner was along the lines of 'if you want to keep your job, you need to sort this out.'

[nutty nigel 7,537]

45 minutes ago, CANARYKING said:

Gained 27, lost 18

Genius

Does dropping 18 points from the last 15 games constitute a sustained run of form?

[nutty nigel 7,537]

7 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Most noticeably the goals-against column, which was a disgrace for such an expensively-assembled squad when Knapper arrived. Whatever else he's done, it's hard to imagine that one of his first conversations with Wagner was along the lines of 'if you want to keep your job, you need to sort this out.'

It certainly coincides with the fall out from the Blackburn game when it seemed Wagner was at the end of his road.

Wagner says he and the players worked this out. But it also coincides with Knapper starting so who knows? Perhaps a combination? Or take your pick because it’s not important. It’s the results that are important.

If Wagner had been sacked after Blackburn and these 15 games had been under a new manager I think many would have found it easier to get onboard.

 

[S_81 797]

1 hour ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

Webber going has lifted an enormous cloud over the club for sure, but the difference is getting everyone fit. Wagner deserves credit for showing balls of steel to dig in and get through the tough times. We can really do this - I think we all now believe, don't we?

I’m not so sure I believe Wagner can get us promoted, if I’m being honest. I still feel he’s not consistent enough and our performances are too patchy. But we are right up there currently, for sure. He’s got consistency right now. 
I hope he proves me wrong. 

[Ray 111]

Webber's ego and lack of self control will always be his 'Foinavon' fence which will always bring him down as he is not Foinavon.

[RobJames 881]

36 minutes ago, S_81 said:

I’m not so sure I believe Wagner can get us promoted, if I’m being honest. I still feel he’s not consistent enough and our performances are too patchy. But we are right up there currently, for sure. He’s got consistency right now. 
I hope he proves me wrong. 

Those 15 games have shown the team can be consistent. The question is this just a lucky run, or is it that the pieces have finally come together.  I would argue the latter. unfortunately we have had a fair number who have attached themselves to the club and have only known the club when it had parachute payments. Those payments end in June. £30m less is around a 40-50% cut in income. I wonder how many of these whiners/newbies could manage, to carry on paying their mortgage with that sort of drop in income.

That meant finding money to pay players with PL contracts still in existence and avoiding signing any contract for anything near PL wages last summer. Hence, the sale of OMO. Hence, bringing in short term stop gaps. Barnes, Batth, Forshaw, Duffy, Stacey. Those out of contract who have minimal bargaining power.

Not only are we to be without parachute money but we are also carrying huge losses from the COVID lock down. . You only have to look at around a dozen ex PL clubs in the Championship and L1 to see how to get it wrong.  Look at the binners, would you swap their past15 years for ours ? Clubs who can expect huge crowds, Sunderland, Derby, Bolton. Not fighting for promotion out of the Championship, in fact not even in the Championship. This was always going to be a transition season. A number of youngsters have been signed, and a number of academy players are out on loan. They will come good at some point. Thankfully the club is well able to hold its nerve, shame some on here seem unable to.

[S_81 797]

3 minutes ago, RobJames said:

Those 15 games have shown the team can be consistent. The question is this just a lucky run, or is it that the pieces have finally come together.  I would argue the latter. unfortunately we have had a fair number who have attached themselves to the club and have only known the club when it had parachute payments. Those payments end in June. £30m less is around a 40-50% cut in income. I wonder how many of these whiners/newbies could manage, to carry on paying their mortgage with that sort of drop in income.

That meant finding money to pay players with PL contracts still in existence and avoiding signing any contract for anything near PL wages last summer. Hence, the sale of OMO. Hence, bringing in short term stop gaps. Barnes, Batth, Forshaw, Duffy, Stacey. Those out of contract who have minimal bargaining power.

Not only are we to be without parachute money but we are also carrying huge losses from the COVID lock down. . You only have to look at around a dozen ex PL clubs in the Championship and L1 to see how to get it wrong.  Look at the binners, would you swap their past15 years for ours ? Clubs who can expect huge crowds, Sunderland, Derby, Bolton. Not fighting for promotion out of the Championship, in fact not even in the Championship. This was always going to be a transition season. A number of youngsters have been signed, and a number of academy players are out on loan. They will come good at some point. Thankfully the club is well able to hold its nerve, shame some on here seem unable to.

Some of the wins have been lucky. Some have been convincing. But wins are wins and we’ve managed to find a way of winning when we’ve been bad. Whether the run continues remains to be seen. We’ll find out in the next few months. 
At least we are now in the mix. That’s what most realistic fans wanted and expected. 

[essex canary 496]

1 hour ago, RobJames said:

Those 15 games have shown the team can be consistent. The question is this just a lucky run, or is it that the pieces have finally come together.  I would argue the latter. unfortunately we have had a fair number who have attached themselves to the club and have only known the club when it had parachute payments. Those payments end in June. £30m less is around a 40-50% cut in income. I wonder how many of these whiners/newbies could manage, to carry on paying their mortgage with that sort of drop in income.

That meant finding money to pay players with PL contracts still in existence and avoiding signing any contract for anything near PL wages last summer. Hence, the sale of OMO. Hence, bringing in short term stop gaps. Barnes, Batth, Forshaw, Duffy, Stacey. Those out of contract who have minimal bargaining power.

Not only are we to be without parachute money but we are also carrying huge losses from the COVID lock down. . You only have to look at around a dozen ex PL clubs in the Championship and L1 to see how to get it wrong.  Look at the binners, would you swap their past15 years for ours ? Clubs who can expect huge crowds, Sunderland, Derby, Bolton. Not fighting for promotion out of the Championship, in fact not even in the Championship. This was always going to be a transition season. A number of youngsters have been signed, and a number of academy players are out on loan. They will come good at some point. Thankfully the club is well able to hold its nerve, shame some on here seem unable to.

Only around a quarter of the £96 million debt incurred over the last 5 years is attributable to the pandemic. Households managing their budgets need to do better than that. The cliff edge resulting from loss of parachute payments is a huge one as the Club found out in 2018-19. One of the tricks must be to be cautious in expanding to meet the PL challenge. We weren't and only now are we showing any serious signs of recovery.

[hogesar 9,676]

During our awful run I thought Wagner should have gone. I dont think at one point there was anyone advocating he remains. He clearly has a very defined style and doesn't want to deviate away from that, which made us perhaps worse than we should have been with all those injuries. Saying that Farke was the same but never had such a crisis at this level.

Wagner has deservedly earned respect for managing to keep the players on side - got to be hard to do with both the young starts and the old heads who probably both believed they were promotion material. And he's stuck at it. He's been very fair in what he's said in pressers and he's been willing to set up the team in an unpopular fashion (Southampton home) and take the criticism for the better of the club i.e points. Had we not got the point against Southampton he'd have been absolutely destroyed by parts of our fanbase but he took the risk against himself to get a result that a lot of other clubs are failing to do.

We looked just as good tactically and just as good on the eye as both West Brom and Coventry for me, which means if players stay fit top 6 is a real possibility 

[Mr.Carrow 376]

9 hours ago, canarybubbles said:

Let's start by not using a throw-in to launch the ball into our own penalty area. Sometimes the sheer creativity that our defenders show in finding new ways to screw up is really impressive.

All our best players are attacking players except Gunn. Our defence is average at best. Some have posited that our uber defensive "hit em on the counter" tactics  coincided with Knapper's analytic approach. If so (whatever City fans opinions) it was brilliant and it's worked. Confidence is surging now and i still think we can go up a level. 

[norfolkngood 1,087]

9 hours ago, hogesar said:

During our awful run I thought Wagner should have gone. I dont think at one point there was anyone advocating he remains. He clearly has a very defined style and doesn't want to deviate away from that, which made us perhaps worse than we should have been with all those injuries. Saying that Farke was the same but never had such a crisis at this level.

Wagner has deservedly earned respect for managing to keep the players on side - got to be hard to do with both the young starts and the old heads who probably both believed they were promotion material. And he's stuck at it. He's been very fair in what he's said in pressers and he's been willing to set up the team in an unpopular fashion (Southampton home) and take the criticism for the better of the club i.e points. Had we not got the point against Southampton he'd have been absolutely destroyed by parts of our fanbase but he took the risk against himself to get a result that a lot of other clubs are failing to do.

We looked just as good tactically and just as good on the eye as both West Brom and Coventry for me, which means if players stay fit top 6 is a real possibility 

Good Post Hog 

i feel the same about Wagner 

when we had the bad run of results  , i think he could of got more out of players , 

he just could not get a formation or tactic to click 

he has done fantastic since and we look strong and he has done well ,

i think if you look recently he looks great fit but the overall picture of Wagner since he joined us  is a Manager i do not trust to do it longer term ,

But you can not fault him at the moment at all he is getting results just this niggling thought when is next bad run 

 

[Google Bot 3,278]

20 hours ago, canarybubbles said:

Sometimes the sheer creativity that our defenders show in finding new ways to screw up is really impressive.

At least they weren't waving the white flag in December, saying that the season is over, I guess.

[RobJames 881]

16 hours ago, hogesar said:

During our awful run I thought Wagner should have gone. I dont think at one point there was anyone advocating he remains.

........... other than the club, the players and around 95% of the genuine supporters.

There will always be the feckless, the glory hunters and the 'johnny come latelys' who attach themselves to clubs. I have no doubt there are a small number of binners now expecting McKenna to be sacked after only 8 points out of 8 games, crashing out of the FA Cup to a non league team and surrendering an 11 point lead over So'ton, to fall 2 points behind them.

The difference being that the noise of their toys from their pram hitting the floor was louder that the 'noise' of patience, by those who have seen it all before. One of the biggest blubbing came from the Chuckle Brothers - Squawk Norwich City. Also, the Charge of the (phone) Light Brigade.

[nutty nigel 7,537]

I couldn’t have cared less if Wagner had been sacked after Blackburn but after Cardiff away it was obvious that Wagner and the players were up for the fight and I was happy to be on board with that. 

[Fen Canary 824]

56 minutes ago, RobJames said:

........... other than the club, the players and around 95% of the genuine supporters.

There will always be the feckless, the glory hunters and the 'johnny come latelys' who attach themselves to clubs. I have no doubt there are a small number of binners now expecting McKenna to be sacked after only 8 points out of 8 games, crashing out of the FA Cup to a non league team and surrendering an 11 point lead over So'ton, to fall 2 points behind them.

The difference being that the noise of their toys from their pram hitting the floor was louder that the 'noise' of patience, by those who have seen it all before. One of the biggest blubbing came from the Chuckle Brothers - Squawk Norwich City. Also, the Charge of the (phone) Light Brigade.

It’s social media amplifying the noise of the minority. Now every bad result leads to a week of complaining about various supposed tactics or bad selections, whereas in the old days the result was largely forgotten the next day. It was only after a sustained run of poor performances that the crowd would start to grumble and eventually turn, whereas now it’s up and down like a yo yo.

Saying that given the choice I would have sacked him after Blackburn I’m not going to lie. I couldn’t see him turning it around but I’m happy he’s proved me wrong 

[hogesar 9,676]

1 hour ago, RobJames said:

........... other than the club, the players and around 95% of the genuine supporters.

There will always be the feckless, the glory hunters and the 'johnny come latelys' who attach themselves to clubs. I have no doubt there are a small number of binners now expecting McKenna to be sacked after only 8 points out of 8 games, crashing out of the FA Cup to a non league team and surrendering an 11 point lead over So'ton, to fall 2 points behind them.

The difference being that the noise of their toys from their pram hitting the floor was louder that the 'noise' of patience, by those who have seen it all before. One of the biggest blubbing came from the Chuckle Brothers - Squawk Norwich City. Also, the Charge of the (phone) Light Brigade.

Of course the club and the players stayed with the manager. But if you think only 5% wanted Wagner out when we hadn't won in 12 games then I can only assume you didn't / do not attend Carrow Road 

[pete 319]

Yes I agree looks likely a play off spot is realistic, but I cannot forget the nature of our play.  Do we deserve to be where we are and seen to be heading.  It is down to the players and we are getting results despite the failings of the manager/coach.  Whose tactics as woeful as they have served up dross on the majority of games.  He has much to thank Gunn, Sargent and Sains for, in their efforts we are in this position.

Think where could have been and entertaining under a proper coach.  Just be gone during summer.