January Ins / Outs

[Petriix 2,838]

The problem we have (aside from the obvious hole in central midfield) is a lack of quality on the bench. We need viable alternatives so that we actually have a striker to bring on (not Gibbs) or an attacking midfielder who can contribute goals and assists. I want to see three signings: CDM, AM and striker. 

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

I would be on the blower to West Ham to try and persuade them to let us have Connor Coventry and Ben Johnson. Both are down to their last years contracts and have not featured for the first team, both would likely be available and both would likely go straight into the first team.

Johnson would be my first choice left back (although played at right back, he's known to be ambidextrous and has played left back for West Ham) and Connor Coventry is the sort of combative midfielder we are crying out for. A lot of similarities to Oli Skipp. Was very impressive for Rotherham on loan last season.

I'd then let one of McCallum or Dimi go if the price was right, let Springett and Jaden Warner out on loan and Bob's your Uncle.

[Google Bot 3,278]

3 minutes ago, Petriix said:

I want to see three signings: CDM, AM and striker. 

I think you'd need a change of coach to get that.  As you say the hole in midfield is really evident, and i find it very surprising that we even plan in this manner.

With Wagner I thought he'd be more a twist on Farke but with more focus on physicality and applying the press, I wasn't expecting our most creative players to sit deep so we can knock the ball around in our own third and then hit long hopeful balls up front.

I don't know how Knapper recruits to support that model as it can't possibly be his longterm plan, and I neither know if this is Wagners preferred plan or he's just playing the cards dealt in order to get us results.  But we were playing this way pre-season so i'm pretty sure it's by design.

One thing that I do remember is Wagner saying that it will take a number of windows to transform the squad into what he needs.

[If wed kept Howie.. 208]

6 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

I don't see a central defender coming in. We have Duffy, Gibson, Batth, Warner and now Kenny.

I don't see a striker coming in. We signed Hwang because Sarge was injured so we have Sarge, Bashley, Idah and Hwang. If all four stay fit it will be like having two new signings anyway.

Maybe a quality, fit central midfielder if the franchise/organisation has any dough...

you forgot Hanley... that's 6 CBs

[hogesar 9,676]

25 minutes ago, Petriix said:

The problem we have (aside from the obvious hole in central midfield) is a lack of quality on the bench. We need viable alternatives so that we actually have a striker to bring on (not Gibbs) or an attacking midfielder who can contribute goals and assists. I want to see three signings: CDM, AM and striker. 

I don't think striker will happen. Hwang and Sargent back soon - with Barnes and Idah of course.

[RobJames 881]

Three internationals would be a massive boost. As that what the return of Hanley, Sargeant and Hwang will be.

With Rowe stepping up is there a case for Idah to go out ob loan, as I doubt, injuries excluding he will be on the bench for most games. Far better he gets games as with Kamara. As to who comes in I would like another each who could sit the midfield down and patiently explain what marking the opposition is about.

And while he is at it, informing Wagner as well. For as long as we carry on with this lunatic 'non marking' approach, the opposition will be able to get the ball to near our penalty box untroubled. That's one of the main causes of our high number of goals conceded.

[Gordon Bennett 784]

7 hours ago, hogesar said:

I don't think striker will happen. Hwang and Sargent back soon - with Barnes and Idah of course.

Was going to post the same. Not sure we need another centre forward once people are fit and the budget wouldn't stretch to a fourth anyway. 

Sargeant and Hwang back will make a big difference.

[Sufyellow 222]

14 hours ago, Big O said:

It’s going to be an interesting window for sure. The club are on the verge of losing parachute payments but somehow are only 5 points off the playoffs despite looking very average so far. The run of games between now and the FA cup game could be quite telling. If we get 8-10 points I think we may think about investing and giving it a crack, however lose 3 of them and it’s pretty much over which I would think focus our attention to getting rid of high wage earners and potentially selling our best assets if any desperate clubs throw money our way.

For me I would look to try and find the midfielder who you are going to base the next 2-3 years around. They need to be strong, defensively aware and able to play for a passing team. Even if there is investment required this seems like a no-brainer as on the assumption that Sara goes we can play them with Nunez or Kenny and have a better balance. I would also be looking for an emerging number 10 we may be able to take a punt on. It’s pretty clear to me that the Ashley Barnes experiment is only going to be short lived in that we might get another 12-18 months max from him,so bring in a youngster who can grow into the role and bed them in during the second half of the season with no pressure and regular rotation. 

in terms of loans for me, it would be a right back as I think fisher looks a good way short at this level just now and I think a loan would be great for his development. Centre half with Hanley and Gibson back gives us numbers (with hills, Warner allowed to continue their development) so the other loan I would bring in is a creative wide player so we could rotate Sainz and Rowe with Hernandez as a back up.

if there is any chance of shifting players then for me it has to be Placheta, baath, Fassnacht, Sorensen and Springett. Just don’t see any of them in our future at all so let’s act now. 

 

 

Our best assets are our best players,  that's Rowe and Sara ! Are you sure you are a Norwich fan,  or has the club brain washed you into thinking everything good has to be sold?  I would go for we don't sell our best players and Knapper comes out and tells us we have a plan and it doesn't involve selling any decent player before they have given us a few years. 

[Sufyellow 222]

13 hours ago, sgncfc said:

I don't think we need much at all to make our plan A team quite good. Assuming Sargent and Hwang recover well, we're well covered up front. The Kenny at CB experiment appears to have legs (so credit to Wagner for that) and alongside Duffy (who was excellent on Saturday) or Hanley that weakness should be fixed.

Wide areas are sorted - I don't like Fassnacht or Hernandez as back ups but they're here and they're not going anywhere. Fullbacks are a problem for me - I'd like to see a loan in both positions as none of our current options are good enough. I'd let Giannoulis and MaCullum go as neither can defend or have good enough engines to be wingbacks.

We have the creativity in midfield in Nunez and Sara. We have to get them further forward. Whether that means a CDM or a more defensively minded CM is debatable. But we need someone - Gibbs may be the future here, but he's not there yet.

I liked the Barnes signing at the time and I still think he can bring something we don't have.

I can't work Saturday out now , Kenny is the answer and Duffy was brilliant. We really should of been 4,1 down at half time , they had a few free hits from 10 yards out. The result was great but it wasn't down to good defending, it was really poor finishing.  

[Sufyellow 222]

2 hours ago, RobJames said:

Three internationals would be a massive boost. As that what the return of Hanley, Sargeant and Hwang will be.

With Rowe stepping up is there a case for Idah to go out ob loan, as I doubt, injuries excluding he will be on the bench for most games. Far better he gets games as with Kamara. As to who comes in I would like another each who could sit the midfield down and patiently explain what marking the opposition is about.

And while he is at it, informing Wagner as well. For as long as we carry on with this lunatic 'non marking' approach, the opposition will be able to get the ball to near our penalty box untroubled. That's one of the main causes of our high number of goals conceded.

Totally agree , the gunn save at the end highlighting it perfectly,  everyone behind the ball and not one of our players tight, it was so easy for Ipswich to get into a shooting position.  When we press high up the pitch onel is never close to wide player so always an outlet. 

[GRB2 34]

I can see us bringing in one player potentially, god knows what Wagner will want. With a fair few injured players returning soon, I can see us just trying to see the season out with what we have and rebuild next year. 

In terms of outs, Springett could do with a loan for some game time, could potentially see someone coming in for McCallum although I'm not sure we'd be open to letting him go until the summer. 

[Capt. Pants 4,242]

No way will Idah be going out on loan. Sargent needs to rebuild his fitness, Barnes needs to get younger with a new knee and Hwang was only just getting up to speed before tweaking a hamstring.

[RobJames 881]

13 hours ago, sgncfc said:

I don't think we need much at all to make our plan A team quite good. Assuming Sargent and Hwang recover well, we're well covered up front. The Kenny at CB experiment appears to have legs (so credit to Wagner for that) and alongside Duffy (who was excellent on Saturday) or Hanley that weakness should be fixed.

Wide areas are sorted - I don't like Fassnacht or Hernandez as back ups but they're here and they're not going anywhere. Fullbacks are a problem for me - I'd like to see a loan in both positions as none of our current options are good enough. I'd let Giannoulis and MaCullum go as neither can defend or have good enough engines to be wingbacks.

We have the creativity in midfield in Nunez and Sara. We have to get them further forward. Whether that means a CDM or a more defensively minded CM is debatable. But we need someone - Gibbs may be the future here, but he's not there yet.

I liked the Barnes signing at the time and I still think he can bring something we don't have.

The idea being to score more goals ? We are already the 3rd highest scorers so that has no value at all.  Neither do we need a CDM or anything similar, We need players marking the opposition when they have the ball. That is what the opposition do to us when we have the ball. And this non marking stuff is always pointed out by commentators when ever I watch the game on the TV. It is not a 'club philosophy' either, as watching the U18s they were quick to pick up their man when the opposition had the ball.

Against the binners we were marking them a bit more, but still allowing their player the option of two players to pass time after time. I can only speculate that this bizarre tactic is underpinned by the belief that it is better to defend a yard or two outside your penalty box than it is to defend around the halfway lien. Our goals against show clearly what a flawed thought that is.

[norfolkngood 1,087]

If i was Knapper i would sell / free Barnes in Summer and use his wages to give pay rises and extensions to Rowe and Sara contracts ,

we have plenty of others out of contract to save money or sign others 

[norfolkngood 1,087]

11 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

I would be on the blower to West Ham to try and persuade them to let us have Connor Coventry and Ben Johnson. Both are down to their last years contracts and have not featured for the first team, both would likely be available and both would likely go straight into the first team.

Johnson would be my first choice left back (although played at right back, he's known to be ambidextrous and has played left back for West Ham) and Connor Coventry is the sort of combative midfielder we are crying out for. A lot of similarities to Oli Skipp. Was very impressive for Rotherham on loan last season.

I'd then let one of McCallum or Dimi go if the price was right, let Springett and Jaden Warner out on loan and Bob's your Uncle.

both Sound  just the type we need for a rebuild ! ,

i think ( along with others ) we need to hang around the PL and see what young players are not quite good enough for their teams just yet and see if we can pinch a few ,

i still can not get over Jack Clarke going to sunderland when we were messing  about with Rashica and Tzolis ,

Rowe on one side clarke on the other with Sarge through middle would have been some strike force 

Edited December 19, 2023 by norfolkngood

[shefcanary 2,409]

6 hours ago, RobJames said:

I can only speculate that this bizarre tactic is underpinned by the belief that it is better to defend a yard or two outside your penalty box than it is to defend around the halfway lien. Our goals against show clearly what a flawed thought that is.

I understand the aim of this bizarre tactic - it is to ensure there is more space in the opposition half after we win the ball deep, that is to play into our forwards feet on a quick counter. The really bizarre bit is that none of our current forwards are really geared up to benefit from it (albeit Idah shows it in glimpses), let's see if it works when Sarge returns. The even more bizarre bit is that we rarely look secure enough to win that ball back deep without allowing the opposition to have a shot. 

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,323]

15 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

I would be on the blower to West Ham to try and persuade them to let us have Connor Coventry and Ben Johnson. Both are down to their last years contracts and have not featured for the first team, both would likely be available and both would likely go straight into the first team.

Johnson would be my first choice left back (although played at right back, he's known to be ambidextrous and has played left back for West Ham) and Connor Coventry is the sort of combative midfielder we are crying out for. A lot of similarities to Oli Skipp. Was very impressive for Rotherham on loan last season.

I'd then let one of McCallum or Dimi go if the price was right, let Springett and Jaden Warner out on loan and Bob's your Uncle.

Absolutely behind this! 

I would add ilias Chair and Morgan Whittaker with them and then we've got a great little set up! 

[Mike w 46]

After watching the last few games on TV feel we need wing fullbacks who cover the space between the penalty area and touch line. They seem to spend most of the time inside the penalty area width leaving opponents wingers pleanty of room to recieve the ball and easily work the ball through. Watford always play wide and Ipswich capitalised on it at weekend. Both goals coming from free width.

 

Just cannot understand why we give opponents all that room which is why we conceed so many.

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

2 hours ago, GodlyOtsemobor said:

Absolutely behind this! 

I would add ilias Chair and Morgan Whittaker with them and then we've got a great little set up! 

Chair and Whittaker will cost way more than we can afford.

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,323]

4 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

Chair and Whittaker will cost way more than we can afford.

Get Mr america to put his hand in his pocket. 

[Thirsty Lizard 3,165]

2 hours ago, shefcanary said:

I understand the aim of this bizarre tactic - it is to ensure there is more space in the opposition half after we win the ball deep, that is to play into our forwards feet on a quick counter. The really bizarre bit is that none of our current forwards are really geared up to benefit from it (albeit Idah shows it in glimpses), let's see if it works when Sarge returns. The even more bizarre bit is that we rarely look secure enough to win that ball back deep without allowing the opposition to have a shot. 

Go and have a look at our second goal against Sheffield Wednesday and then come back and apologise................ 😉 

[Big O 225]

11 hours ago, Sufyellow said:

Our best assets are our best players,  that's Rowe and Sara ! Are you sure you are a Norwich fan,  or has the club brain washed you into thinking everything good has to be sold?  I would go for we don't sell our best players and Knapper comes out and tells us we have a plan and it doesn't involve selling any decent player before they have given us a few years. 

Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely don’t want to sell our best players and would love for something to come out of the club that intimated we were financially sound going forwards with MA at the helm….. but we are supposedly 70-90m in debt and our parachute payment is about to disappear if we don’t make it up. That coupled with the occasional crazy bid by desperate clubs in January might mean we’re in no place to refuse, hence me outline of what I would do in that scenario above. 

[Capt. Pants 4,242]

18 minutes ago, Big O said:

Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely don’t want to sell our best players and would love for something to come out of the club that intimated we were financially sound going forwards with MA at the helm….. but we are supposedly 70-90m in debt and our parachute payment is about to disappear if we don’t make it up. That coupled with the occasional crazy bid by desperate clubs in January might mean we’re in no place to refuse, hence me outline of what I would do in that scenario above. 

We are effectively in debt to ourselves (Attanasio) and he has confirmed that isn't an issue.

There will be a lot of questions asked if Rowe is sold before the summer.

[Paul101 93]

On 18/12/2023 at 17:31, Robert N. LiM said:

Can't believe Knapper is happy with the number of goals we are conceding. Given that the issue is in midfield rather than the back four, and given Wagner doesn't seem to be able to remedy the problem with the current squad, surely a defensive midfielder of some sort has got to be on the list for January? No idea who, though.

Even a box to box style player would help us someone who can hassle and break up plays but think Wagner would use a decent Dm who can pass but finding one is the real issue

[Mason 47 1,381]

McCallum was heavily rumoured to be off towards the end of the window, and it's certainly not hard to see that he isn't fancied. I think Dimi will sign off in the summer, also. I doubt he's ever seen himself as a sustained Championship player.

As others have said, I don't think we will see a lot in January simply because the squad has lots of holes but no spaces. To bring in a CM for example- many would say pretty much required-  we already have 6 players for 2 positions, hence why we've seen Gibbs mutated into a forward just to get him on the pitch. Get someone to take Forshaw /Sorenson & McLean stays at CB, then one of Sara, Nunez or Gibbs still misses out to accommodate the 'new guy' and really all 3 need to be playing. Perhaps a loan for Gibbs 2nd half of the season? 

 

[Number9 272]

So a CDM & a Number 10 were dismissed by Wagner in the summer transfer window because it wasn't required in the way he's going to set up the team.

 

 

[yellowrider120 763]

11 hours ago, Number9 said:

So a CDM & a Number 10 were dismissed by Wagner in the summer transfer window because it wasn't required in the way he's going to set up the team.

 

 

Just shows how wrong he was! The spectacle of arguably our two most creative players being effectively shackled into patrolling the half way line is one of the most bizarre things I've ever seen from a Norwich team. Unfortunately this strategy is set in stone under this manager.

[RobJames 881]

18 hours ago, shefcanary said:

I understand the aim of this bizarre tactic - it is to ensure there is more space in the opposition half after we win the ball deep, that is to play into our forwards feet on a quick counter. The really bizarre bit is that none of our current forwards are really geared up to benefit from it (albeit Idah shows it in glimpses), let's see if it works when Sarge returns. The even more bizarre bit is that we rarely look secure enough to win that ball back deep without allowing the opposition to have a shot. 

eh ?

That presumes the opposition follows the same bizarre tactic as we do - non marking.  Lose the ball, find your man was the mantra drummed into us in the Anglian Combination way back. It takes a matter of seconds, as it takes the opposition against us. They mark, we don't. Thats where the problem is.

There is also this fetish with a CDM', as if this specialist player can mark all attacking opposition players.   The one player he is marking does not get the ball passed to him, as there are unmarked others. This guff smacks of having a player who is a specialist at throw ins, and so takes all the throw ins irrespective of where they happen, or he is on the pitch.

If you are not at the game on Sat and avoid streams then watch the WBA game, and listen the commentators pointing this out.

[shefcanary 2,409]

17 hours ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Go and have a look at our second goal against Sheffield Wednesday and then come back and apologise................ 😉 

Apologies, but no apology, there's always at least one exception to every observation! 😉 

1 hour ago, RobJames said:

That presumes the opposition follows the same bizarre tactic as we do - non marking. 

The general trend in modern football is to mark spaces (or "zonal marking"), not players. I'm not saying it is right, but that is the prevalent coaching theory ATM. So yes, the Binners were better at "marking players" around the half way line, but where were their markers when Rowe got the ball in the box? (see response to TL above - that's at least two exceptions! 😉) As with all coaching instructions, there is no black & white, I assume McKenna has them set up to mark players at various phases in the game, but then resorts to zonal marking at others, notably in the penalty area. Whereas, under Wagner, our players seem to mark fresh air rather than spaces or players. 🙂 

[sgncfc 1,228]

There's a lot of talk about "breaking through the lines". We don't even have any lines for our opponents to break through. Ipswich just strolled through our midfield most of the match, then came up against a resolute back 5. They wouldn't have equalised at all if Barnes hadn't tried to help out. At the start of the season, we defended from the front (Sargent and Barnes being crucial to that) - Idah and Hwang are much less effective at that - but even then once past our forwards our midfield "line" was non-existent.

That's what I find so frustrating - our issues seem to be so patently obvious, yet our coaches continue to not address them.