Apathy

[mastoola 185]

I just dont get the apathy around the club. we have a board that wont make a change. we have a manager that wont make a change. we have a team that wont make a change. why????

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,375]

Apathy I guess.

[Canary Wundaboy 1,359]

Paralysis of indecision:

Head coach doesn’t know any other way to play and won’t change his tactics, see previous positions as evidence.

Sporting Director handed in his notice almost 9 months ago, won’t make a decision. Plus the coach is his mate. Under no pressure to make a decision as the ownership would rather he stayed regardless of how “checked out” he is.

Ownership in place abdicate all decision-making to the Sporting Director, see point b). New part owners aren’t officially in place yet and are bound for 3 years to vote the same way as the existing ownership, hands effectively tied.

You’d never run a business like this, no-one would make a decision, the people that could don’t want to/aren’t incentivised to/don’t want to impede their successor.

[......and Smith must score. 1,357]

10 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Paralysis of indecision:

Head coach doesn’t know any other way to play and won’t change his tactics, see previous positions as evidence.

Sporting Director handed in his notice almost 9 months ago, won’t make a decision. Plus the coach is his mate. Under no pressure to make a decision as the ownership would rather he stayed regardless of how “checked out” he is.

Ownership in place abdicate all decision-making to the Sporting Director, see point b). New part owners aren’t officially in place yet and are bound for 3 years to vote the same way as the existing ownership, hands effectively tied.

You’d never run a business like this, no-one would make a decision, the people that could don’t want to/aren’t incentivised to/don’t want to impede their successor.

NCFC is a business and sadly it is being run like this.

[mastoola 185]

15 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Paralysis of indecision:

Head coach doesn’t know any other way to play and won’t change his tactics, see previous positions as evidence.

Sporting Director handed in his notice almost 9 months ago, won’t make a decision. Plus the coach is his mate. Under no pressure to make a decision as the ownership would rather he stayed regardless of how “checked out” he is.

Ownership in place abdicate all decision-making to the Sporting Director, see point b). New part owners aren’t officially in place yet and are bound for 3 years to vote the same way as the existing ownership, hands effectively tied.

You’d never run a business like this, no-one would make a decision, the people that could don’t want to/aren’t incentivised to/don’t want to impede their successor.

Its crazy isnt it?  

[canarybubbles 1,937]

Basically, apathy makes sense.

There's no point chanting Wagner Out because he's already out of the door; it's just a question of when the club pull the trigger.

There's no point chanting Webber Go Now because he's going nowhere until it suits him, thank you very much, and no one will push him because the owners are besotted with him and when he finally goes, Delia will go into mourning for three months.

There's no point chanting against the board because one positive thing Webber has done is making it clear just how little the people running this club care about their fans, including the owners for all their bulls*it about a 'family club', a 'community club', etc.

Any protest would be a waste of energy and the fans know it. 

So basically, apathy makes sense.

[The Real Buh 3,479]

The solution really is not turning up to games but so many fans just sleepwalk in.

The ones that stayed all the way yesterday and clapped the team off, who are you? What are you?

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,297]

Under this ownership, whenever the chips are down are we’re bad, we’re catastrophically bad.

We’ve never be able to stop a rot without change and reset (which is always late and reactive), and we’ve never been successful in a relegation battle. The owners are soft, too nice, and ultimately weak decision makers. And this culture emanates through every strand of this football club, including the playing and coaching staff, with the most damaging effect. 

Delia and Michael are fans and have overseen some really good times. But they can’t make anything last, due to the clubs ‘comfort’ culture. It’s not just finances, with the right mentality you can punch above your weight, and sustain it. 

More worryingly is the ride they’ve been taken on by people over the last couple of years. Are they senile and unaware of how they’ve been exploited? No I don’t think so. They’re just too weak to make a decision and scared they’ll leave themselves isolated. They are so unfit for purpose - the FA should step in and investigate before this club is dragged into financial oblivion.

 

[Nexus_Canary 1,024]

We have to just wait for Webber to Foxtrot Oscar and hope Wagner follows him out.
Thats the first piece in the puzzle.

[Davidlingfield 63]

9 hours ago, mastoola said:

I just dont get the apathy around the club. we have a board that wont make a change. we have a manager that wont make a change. we have a team that wont make a change. why????

Because you have a football administrator, hopelessly over-promoted into the only decision-making position at the Club. Therefore incapable of working out how to extricate us from this mess.

[Feedthewolf 4,866]

9 hours ago, mastoola said:

I just dont get the apathy around the club. we have a board that wont make a change. we have a manager that wont make a change. we have a team that wont make a change. why????

Because the fans are equally apathetic, myself included. Can't be arsed to protest, would rather just do something I enjoy instead. Life's too short to invest loads of time and energy shouting into the void.

Hopefully there will be enough fans less apathetic than me to actually co-ordinate some kind of targeted campaign to seek accountability from the club about what on earth is going on... and by that I mean a well-thought-through, media-savvy campaign with clear aims and requests, rather than a couple of dozen nutters with a bedsheet yelling expletives at Stuart Webber.

[Indy 3,314]

18 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Because the fans are equally apathetic, myself included. Can't be arsed to protest, would rather just do something I enjoy instead. Life's too short to invest loads of time and energy shouting into the void.

Hopefully there will be enough fans less apathetic than me to actually co-ordinate some kind of targeted campaign to seek accountability from the club about what on earth is going on... and by that I mean a well-thought-through, media-savvy campaign with clear aims and requests, rather than a couple of dozen nutters with a bedsheet yelling expletives at Stuart Webber.

Trouble is FTW the club will say changes are happening, Webber is going and Knapper coming in, Wagner is on borrowed time and probably already knows he’s going during the international break. Delia &MWJ are transferring the club over on their terms and carry that right until two and half years time!

We are currently in a mess and I’m not sure what any protest will achieve, the changes are coming but it might be that we will need to take the negative impact before things go well again.

Had we had clear leadership and not being run by two pensioners who are too uncomfortable to take the lead this handed the running of this football club to a half committed SD and his wife, there might have been standards set and accountability for the failure, instead Webber has been allowed more time to totally destroy this clubs playing & coaching structure while loading up the debt by daft contracts!

Not sure what the answer is but feel sorry for Knapper as he’s coming into a club run by committee, a coach who’s lost the fans, players who are totally unmotivated and happy to collect their wages without effort and no money to work with, not great! Poor man!

Edited November 6, 2023 by Indy

[duke63 545]

Its fairly obvious the club is going through transition.

Uncertainty on all levels ( owenrship, boardroom, Sporting director, manager) will ultimatley feed its way down thru the whole club.

It needs Attanasio to take full control and start a new direction, sooner rather than later. I'm guessing he may well have had some input into Knapper's appointment, so let the changes start now.

[Ernie Wise 67]

The actions or inaction of the two married couples who have run the club into the ground  may well have now forced their hand. 
The club is heading towards administration and all the issues that will entail without the increasing dependence on Atanasio. How long will he support a sinking ship with more money without wanting to take control and make the hard decisions necessary to try and clear up this mess
Without him the club appears to be totally up s**t creek without a paddle.

[Robert N. LiM 4,475]

10 hours ago, mastoola said:

I just dont get the apathy around the club. we have a board that wont make a change. we have a manager that wont make a change. we have a team that wont make a change. why????

It's because all the changes are happening, just slowly.

People want Delia and Michael out? They're going.

People want Stuart Webber out? So does he.

People want Wagner out? We all know he's going soon after Knapper arrives.

So we're in this weird state where we all know that protest is essentially pointless.

 

"What do we want?" "The thing that's happening"

When do we want it?" "A bit sooner than the current timeframe"

It's hardly Kett's rebellion.

[TheGunnShow 5,989]

5 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

It's because all the changes are happening, just slowly.

People want Delia and Michael out? They're going.

People want Stuart Webber out? So does he.

People want Wagner out? We all know he's going soon after Knapper arrives.

So we're in this weird state where we all know that protest is essentially pointless.

 

"What do we want?" "The thing that's happening"

When do we want it?" "A bit sooner than the current timeframe"

It's hardly Kett's rebellion.

Nailed it. As another poster said, we're in transition. It'll happen every so often when we finally switch between models/grand plans.

[Feedthewolf 4,866]

17 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

It's because all the changes are happening, just slowly.

People want Delia and Michael out? They're going.

People want Stuart Webber out? So does he.

People want Wagner out? We all know he's going soon after Knapper arrives.

So we're in this weird state where we all know that protest is essentially pointless.

 

"What do we want?" "The thing that's happening"

When do we want it?" "A bit sooner than the current timeframe"

It's hardly Kett's rebellion.

Very well articulated, Robert.

I think it just irks me how we've been allowed to get to this state; I remember about a year ago, when I was on the supporters' panel, feeling a bit concerned about what appeared to be rather low staff morale behind the scenes and a lot of turnover of key employees; it didn't really concern me that a few of them had left to join Ip****h, as they were in League One and we were presumably in a PL promotion push.

Fast forward to now, and just look at the state of us. It seems obvious to me that Attanasio is quietly content with the apparent 'managed decline' of the club, as he'll then be more of a white knight when he completes the takeover – and, of course, it'll cost him less to acquire the remainder of the shares.

Yes, Delia and Michael have given this three-year timeframe, but if the club continues to flounder then they may well decide that the 'honorary life president' role in the background is much more appealing than still holding the reins in the face of increasing supporter unrest, financial upheaval and footballing failure.

That we're currently up sh*t creek is pretty clear; hopefully the twin paddles of Knapper and Attanasio can steer us away from the precipice.

[Mello Yello 2,302]

Who cares about Apathy?.....

[Mello Yello 2,302]

12 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Very well articulated, Robert.

I think it just irks me how we've been allowed to get to this state; I remember about a year ago, when I was on the supporters' panel, feeling a bit concerned about what appeared to be rather low staff morale behind the scenes and a lot of turnover of key employees; it didn't really concern me that a few of them had left to join Ip****h, as they were in League One and we were presumably in a PL promotion push.

Fast forward to now, and just look at the state of us. It seems obvious to me that Attanasio is quietly content with the apparent 'managed decline' of the club, as he'll then be more of a white knight when he completes the takeover – and, of course, it'll cost him less to acquire the remainder of the shares.

Yes, Delia and Michael have given this three-year timeframe, but if the club continues to flounder then they may well decide that the 'honorary life president' role in the background is much more appealing than still holding the reins in the face of increasing supporter unrest, financial upheaval and footballing failure.

That we're currently up sh*t creek is pretty clear; hopefully the twin paddles of Knapper and Attanasio can steer us away from the precipice.

FTW the bits I've highlighted are the ones I find most disconcerting.....

[Feedthewolf 4,866]

6 minutes ago, Mello Yello said:

FTW the bits I've highlighted are the ones I find most disconcerting.....

What in particular? Not sure what you're trying to say here, old fruit.

[lake district canary 4,544]

1 hour ago, Robert N. LiM said:

It's because all the changes are happening, just slowly.

People want Delia and Michael out? They're going.

People want Stuart Webber out? So does he.

People want Wagner out? We all know he's going soon after Knapper arrives.

So we're in this weird state where we all know that protest is essentially pointless.

 

"What do we want?" "The thing that's happening"

When do we want it?" "A bit sooner than the current timeframe"

It's hardly Kett's rebellion.

If the club carries on like this over three years, there may not be much of a club left by the time the takeover is finished.

[Mello Yello 2,302]

Just now, Feedthewolf said:

What in particular? Not sure what you're trying to say here, old fruit.

The low staff morale and loss of and turnover of key employees....It's the norm as in many businesses that they have a crop rotation of employees, due to retirements, dissatisfaction, disillusionment and off to better paid pastures new,  etc....

But to go to our Suffolk neighbours?.....

[Feedthewolf 4,866]

25 minutes ago, Mello Yello said:

The low staff morale and loss of and turnover of key employees....It's the norm as in many businesses that they have a crop rotation of employees, due to retirements, dissatisfaction, disillusionment and off to better paid pastures new,  etc....

But to go to our Suffolk neighbours?.....

Yeah, it's a concern. There was clearly a 'project' down south that turned a lot of heads... and, as it turns out, it wasn't just hot air. It's going to be bloody sickening having to watch that lot in the PL next season if they get there.

Not sure exactly who we lost to them, though... can anyone remember? I know Lynette Hannant, the supporter liaison lead, went down there... who else?

[Mello Yello 2,302]

Just now, Feedthewolf said:

Yeah, it's a concern. There was clearly a 'project' down south that turned a lot of heads... and, as it turns out, it wasn't just hot air. It's going to be bloody sickening having to watch that lot in the PL next season if they get there.

Not sure exactly who we lost to them, though... can anyone remember? I know Lynette Hannant, the supporter liaison lead, went down there... who else?

I'm sure someone on here will be able to tell us who departed NCFC and went over the border...maybe?....

[Feedthewolf 4,866]

Just now, Mello Yello said:

I'm sure someone on here will be able to tell us who departed NCFC and went over the border...maybe?....

I think we could do worse than make @TIL 1010 our first port of call...

[Dr Greenthumb 750]

11 hours ago, mastoola said:

I just dont get the apathy around the club. we have a board that wont make a change. we have a manager that wont make a change. we have a team that wont make a change. why????

There’s no money, they haven’t a clue what they are doing and this family club garbage is being taken too literally towards this absolutely useless football head coach and his set of players, all while Webber is resting up for his next job!

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I am not going to raise a rallying cry for the supporters to lay siege to Carrow Road or Colney but apathy is an apt description.

The mantra has been around for a long time that we are the right model for football. That we have wonderrful owners who are doing the right things. That we punched above our weight to get to the EPL. 

And much of that was true at the time. But in the same way as football is ever changing (look how many rule changes and reliance on technology) at the heart of our club, little has changed. While apart from it being the wrong decision to sack Farke, it was cruel the way it was done yet Neil Adams has been given a life membership. Oh Stuart is a lovely bloke I adore him and he can give 12 months notice at 90%. The Untouchables.

The board are custodians but clueless about running a football club in 2023. We don't need Mother Theresa running the club. The coaches and the players are there to perform. Of course we can't always win. But we can try. We can try to adapt. And if they don't then they are sacked or dropped. And we cry we don't want to be like Watford, we don't want Warnock, we want the Norwich way. Well the Norwich way worked once but is past its sell by date.

We need a new way. 

[Ken Hairy 3,779]

3 hours ago, Robert N. LiM said:

It's because all the changes are happening, just slowly.

People want Delia and Michael out? They're going.

People want Stuart Webber out? So does he.

People want Wagner out? We all know he's going soon after Knapper arrives.

So we're in this weird state where we all know that protest is essentially pointless.

 

"What do we want?" "The thing that's happening"

When do we want it?" "A bit sooner than the current timeframe"

It's hardly Kett's rebellion.

I agree with this, but Wagner can't be allowed to have any more points to waste or this season gets catastrophic.  We should take advantage that Warnock is available and would happily sign a short term deal somewhere (he said so himself on TalkSport), then we can do a proper reset in the summer without having dropping down another level.

[Robert N. LiM 4,475]

7 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

I agree with this, but Wagner can't be allowed to have any more points to waste or this season gets catastrophic.  We should take advantage that Warnock is available and would happily sign a short term deal somewhere (he said so himself on TalkSport), then we can do a proper reset in the summer without having dropping down another level.

Certainly agree that the only aspect of this can be brought forward is getting rid of Wagner. As I've said before, I suspect he was actually brought in as a kind of caretaker manager, someone that Webber knew and was confident would do an ok job, to tide us over until the new SD arrived. On that basis, I was hoping that he could see this period out. But we certainly seem to be in a death spiral at the moment, so it's hard to see how a caretaker could do any worse.

Personally I'm not convinced by calls for Warnock till the end of the season. Not sure if I'm being too optimistic about our squad, but I really feel the problem is a coaching/tactical one, and that pretty much any caretaker (Adams, Pelach, etc) should easily be able to steady the ship. That way we could get a new permanent coach in as soon as Knapper is ready to make that appointment, rather than just writing the whole season off. (Also, there's no way Webber is appointing Warnock - it would be a humiliating admission of defeat. Not saying that's right or wrong, I just can't see it happening in a million years.)

I don't like to call for people to lose their job, but the way I see it is that Wagner is going to lose his job anyway. Really can't see what we gain now from dragging it out.

Edit: PS @Ken Hairy your avatar change made me laugh.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Robert N. LiM

[TIL 1010 4,785]

6 hours ago, Feedthewolf said:

I think we could do worse than make @TIL 1010 our first port of call...

Lynette Hannant Head of Supporter Services.

Dean Sharp Health and Safety Manager.

Stuart Cox Head of Catering.