Cantwell Speaks Out Norwich / Webber / Farke / Smith

[chicken 2,651]

The way I see this, Cantwell is saying he had no relationship with Webber, not that it was a poor one, just that he had none. Which he feels unusual.

Farke made the decision to freeze him out which Cantwell appears to take some responsability for. Smith tried to get him back in but the style of football and water under the bridge was too much to overcome.

Management these days, in any job, is about handling your employees well. I would say Webber, Farke and Smith, on the face of this, don't come out looking very good.

I still think there is a ruthless side to Farke we don't see. 

[king canary 7,680]

41 minutes ago, chicken said:

The way I see this, Cantwell is saying he had no relationship with Webber, not that it was a poor one, just that he had none. Which he feels unusual.

Farke made the decision to freeze him out which Cantwell appears to take some responsability for. Smith tried to get him back in but the style of football and water under the bridge was too much to overcome.

Management these days, in any job, is about handling your employees well. I would say Webber, Farke and Smith, on the face of this, don't come out looking very good.

I still think there is a ruthless side to Farke we don't see. 

I can't imagine Farke will have got to where he is without an element of ruthlessness.

You're right that managers do really need to be able to adapt to handle their employees. In a footballing sense Ferguson's longevity was in part down to the fact he managed to adjust his management style to handle younger players as football changed but even he had issues from time to time. I doubt dealing with coddled and probably quite entitled 22 year olds who are being paid huge sums of money is easy or much fun at times- and I think in some ways we can forget that Webber himself is young for such a senior position. I do wonder if in 10 years he'll have mellowed a bit and maybe look back and think he could have handled things better.

[chicken 2,651]

32 minutes ago, king canary said:

I can't imagine Farke will have got to where he is without an element of ruthlessness.

You're right that managers do really need to be able to adapt to handle their employees. In a footballing sense Ferguson's longevity was in part down to the fact he managed to adjust his management style to handle younger players as football changed but even he had issues from time to time. I doubt dealing with coddled and probably quite entitled 22 year olds who are being paid huge sums of money is easy or much fun at times- and I think in some ways we can forget that Webber himself is young for such a senior position. I do wonder if in 10 years he'll have mellowed a bit and maybe look back and think he could have handled things better.

I would agree, but Cantwell had lost a close family member. A very rudimentary understanding of psychology, that most people have, tends to give you understanding that bereavement can see people behave in a way outside of their usual persona.

Obviously there are two sides to every story but it certainly doesn't help with the club's much praised mental health campaigns.

[lake district canary 4,551]

1 hour ago, chicken said:

I still think there is a ruthless side to Farke we don't see. 

The ruthlessness was there to see from the beginning. Farke made it plain from day 1 that egos would not be tolerated - he was absolutely clear about it and repeated it several times on the first few days of his tenure - and very soon showed he would stick to that with the Oliveira situation. The ruthlessness was there to see! 

[Nuff Said 5,179]

35 minutes ago, chicken said:

I would agree, but Cantwell had lost a close family member. A very rudimentary understanding of psychology, that most people have, tends to give you understanding that bereavement can see people behave in a way outside of their usual persona.

Obviously there are two sides to every story but it certainly doesn't help with the club's much praised mental health campaigns.

Agreed, but if you’re not playing well enough to get in the team, that’s all that matters. 

[Harry53 212]

If we had played Todd when fit I am certain we would have managed more points won. His movement with and without the ball was always impressive, and his link up play with Teemu essential. We had him as a player and did ourselves no favours excluding him from the matches. I have great respect for him and miss watching his skills at Carrow Road.

Good luck to him. 

[chicken 2,651]

2 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

Agreed, but if you’re not playing well enough to get in the team, that’s all that matters. 

Sure, but you don't freeze someone out like that... If I did that in my line of work I'd face a disciplinary, potentially lose my job...

[Making Plans 942]

More

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67133443

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Making Plans

[S_81 889]

14 minutes ago, Making Plans said:

More

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67133443

 

Story fails to mention Cantwell’s impromptu visit to Farke’s office before the Brighton game. Most likely key to what followed. Including his own admission it was a bad idea.  Poor journalism. 

[shefcanary 2,468]

31 minutes ago, S_81 said:

Poor journalism. 

Standard I'd say. Click bait ...

[Petriix 2,853]

The stupid thing is that we're now fielding inferior players in his position. Regardless of the ins and outs of the relationships between players and managers, it's always going to be disappointing when your team gets weaker.

I have minimal interest in the gossip or who said what, I just want to see decent football. For that part, Todd was integral to some of the best football I've seen Norwich play and I will always hold him in high regard for that reason alone. 

[repman 635]

It doesn't surprise me to hear Todd talk about a divide between the younger players and the senior ones. I know the younger lads often felt like they were harder done by than the more experienced ones in a number of areas, whether that be them being dropped quicker or being paid less than they thought they were worth to the team.

I don't think it's a coincidence he talks about Webber having relationship with certain players. I think in terms of contracts you can see that the older players have had some nice deals. I'm still shocked there was less questioning around us giving McLean a new deal until 2026 when he already had a contract until 2025, I have a hard time believing that was a pure football decision.

[lake district canary 4,551]

49 minutes ago, repman said:

I'm still shocked there was less questioning around us giving McLean a new deal until 2026 when he already had a contract until 2025, I have a hard time believing that was a pure football decision.

I'm sure it was. It was designed to encourage him to stay here rather than go elsewhere, when there was talk of him possibly  moving back to Scotland.

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

TC seemed to like playing under DF and said he got the best from him that DS wouldn’t/couldn’t (no surprise there!) so a lot of the blaming some have DF for the alleged mismanagement of TC seems unfounded. Terrible that he had family tragedy, but the evidence of a drop in form was every game he played thereafter, whether this was because of being put in the 23s or otherwise we won’t know, but the DS appointment wasn’t the fresh start he needed and neither was DW, so Rangers was the way to go. By virtue of being the only real option tabled. Either way he is doing ok up there by all counts. I fear he will be finishing second by a big margin and he will need new chap to see in him what the self confessed genius of Michael Beale saw in him. I feel MBs latest stint really puts to bed the notion of him masterminding Gerrard’s success there a bit 

[hogesar 9,765]

45 minutes ago, SwearyCanary said:

TC seemed to like playing under DF and said he got the best from him that DS wouldn’t/couldn’t (no surprise there!) so a lot of the blaming some have DF for the alleged mismanagement of TC seems unfounded. Terrible that he had family tragedy, but the evidence of a drop in form was every game he played thereafter, whether this was because of being put in the 23s or otherwise we won’t know, but the DS appointment wasn’t the fresh start he needed and neither was DW, so Rangers was the way to go. By virtue of being the only real option tabled. Either way he is doing ok up there by all counts. I fear he will be finishing second by a big margin and he will need new chap to see in him what the self confessed genius of Michael Beale saw in him. I feel MBs latest stint really puts to bed the notion of him masterminding Gerrard’s success there a bit 

Well, it's DF who was in charge during his loss of a family member and everything that made him decide he wanted to leave us. From Smiths view, he came in to a Cantwell who told him he didn't want to be here.

[YellowSubmarine 39]

2 hours ago, repman said:

It doesn't surprise me to hear Todd talk about a divide between the younger players and the senior ones. I know the younger lads often felt like they were harder done by than the more experienced ones in a number of areas, whether that be them being dropped quicker or being paid less than they thought they were worth to the team.

I don't think it's a coincidence he talks about Webber having relationship with certain players. I think in terms of contracts you can see that the older players have had some nice deals. I'm still shocked there was less questioning around us giving McLean a new deal until 2026 when he already had a contract until 2025, I have a hard time believing that was a pure football decision.

Webber only had a relationship with the leadership team, which Was Hanley, Tettey, Krul and Mclean.  He left the other players to be managed by the manager, like they are supposed to be.
 

McLean got the new contract because Leeds offered 4m and better wages, ball in players court to say I want an extra year and more money or I’m off. 

[Monty13 2,254]

12 hours ago, chicken said:

The way I see this, Cantwell is saying he had no relationship with Webber, not that it was a poor one, just that he had none. Which he feels unusual.

Farke made the decision to freeze him out which Cantwell appears to take some responsability for. Smith tried to get him back in but the style of football and water under the bridge was too much to overcome.

Management these days, in any job, is about handling your employees well. I would say Webber, Farke and Smith, on the face of this, don't come out looking very good.

I still think there is a ruthless side to Farke we don't see. 

This. It also in football has the added issue of your employees being assets. Not managing them incorrectly isn’t just poor leadership, it’s financially irresponsible.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Monty13

[Capt. Pants 4,295]

6 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

This. It also in football has the added issue of your employees being assets. Not managing them incorrectly isn’t just poor leadership, it’s financially irresponsible.

Yep, and Cantwell leaves on a virtually free transfer.

It's all very well being ruthless and stubborn as long as you don't shoot yourself in the foot further down the line.

[repman 635]

42 minutes ago, YellowSubmarine said:

Webber only had a relationship with the leadership team, which Was Hanley, Tettey, Krul and Mclean.  He left the other players to be managed by the manager, like they are supposed to be.
 

McLean got the new contract because Leeds offered 4m and better wages, ball in players court to say I want an extra year and more money or I’m off. 

If we were offered £4m for McLean we should've taken it and I think if it was a player who didn't have such a close relationship to the staff then he would've gone. Webber had no qualms about selling Howson in his first summer in charge. 

[daly 512]

On 16/10/2023 at 22:06, Ken Hairy said:

He did quit football, he joined Rangers

Tell that to the 50000 fans

 

 

[king canary 7,680]

10 hours ago, YellowSubmarine said:

McLean got the new contract because Leeds offered 4m and better wages, ball in players court to say I want an extra year and more money or I’m off. 

Except he still had two years on his current deal so the ball was not in his court.

[hogesar 9,765]

38 minutes ago, king canary said:

Except he still had two years on his current deal so the ball was not in his court.

But, best signing this summer for me... 😉

[The Bristol Nest 518]

11 hours ago, daly said:

Tell that to the 50000 fans

 

 

It was a joke Daly ... 

[sgncfc 1,259]

13 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

Yep, and Cantwell leaves on a virtually free transfer.

It's all very well being ruthless and stubborn as long as you don't shoot yourself in the foot further down the line.

Following our second promotion, Cantwell was set up as our "main man". Along with Gilmour, he started against Liverpool in the first game and he had right there, the complete trust of his manager and colleagues and the support of almost 27,000 people who desperately wanted him to show he still had it and could step up. Cantwell could have been our new Buendia, our new Hoolahan. He had the skill and ability, we all knew that because we'd seen it.

Within minutes of the start it was pretty obvious his heart wasn't in it. The rest of the team were pretty rubbish too but he was anonymous. He either wasn't good enough or couldn't be bothered enough at that point, and that was effectively his Norwich career down the pan because he never really recovered. He had more chances but disappointed in every game. He simply couldn't or wouldn't live up to his billing.

That's why he lost his place. That's why he was shipped off to Bournemouth, where incidentally he barely played. Not because of managers or coaches or being isolated. We did very well to get anything for him at all, given his refusal to sign a contract extension and the fact that at that point 3 coaches had pretty much given up on him. Blaming everyone but himself is just classic Cantwell; there was always an excuse.

Gilmour had an even worse time but since then he's reset, got his head down, kept his counsel and is doing well at Brighton like a proper professional footballer should. Cantwell - not so much. Too much talking as ever and not enough doing.

[shefcanary 2,468]

12 hours ago, daly said:

Tell that to the 50000 fans

 

 

You sure that is not an old picture of a UKIP party conference? 😉 

[shefcanary 2,468]

Am I just being a pedant, but can someone please explain what "immensely close" means - or is Connor just taking the **** out of Todd?

[Ken Hairy 3,782]

13 hours ago, daly said:

Tell that to the 50000 fans

 

 

Happily 🤷‍♂️, but then deep down I'm sure they already know the poor standard of their league

[Walcombe canary 69]

Sorry if this has been said before, But.....

All the youngsters who have left NCFC - The Murphys, Lewis, Godfrey, Andrew O, Max, - even Emi, Maddison ( Sorry to those I have missed off ). Is Todd the first player to criticise The Clubs Handling of his NCFC Career ? 

Usually, it is You The Fans complaining, that the Player has been sold to quick

As a Club. Any players leaving in the future. NCFC will want Max Profit. Beware - J Rowe & G Sara

[essex canary 508]

On 17/10/2023 at 10:38, chicken said:

I would agree, but Cantwell had lost a close family member. A very rudimentary understanding of psychology, that most people have, tends to give you understanding that bereavement can see people behave in a way outside of their usual persona.

Obviously there are two sides to every story but it certainly doesn't help with the club's much praised mental health campaigns.

100 per cent correct.

Pity that you didn't agree with the same logic concerning a young supporter I endeavoured to assist in similar circumstances. 

[Cowboy 205]

10 minutes ago, Walcombe canary said:

Sorry if this has been said before, But.....

All the youngsters who have left NCFC - The Murphys, Lewis, Godfrey, Andrew O, Max, - even Emi, Maddison ( Sorry to those I have missed off ). Is Todd the first player to criticise The Clubs Handling of his NCFC Career ? 

Usually, it is You The Fans complaining, that the Player has been sold to quick

As a Club. Any players leaving in the future. NCFC will want Max Profit. Beware - J Rowe & G Sara

What's with The weird Capitalisation?

Is it An Acrostic of Some kind?

Edited October 18, 2023 by Cowboy