**Official Lappinitup Match Thread - Norwich v Birmingham**

[king canary 7,678]

5 hours ago, BigFish said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This week's fools gallery

Honestly this is the lamest post I've ever seen on here.

Calling people fools for expressing opinions on the line up with benefit of 20/20 hindsight while being too much of a coward to offer up your own opinion. Just cringingly rubbish behaviour. 

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,800]

3 minutes ago, king canary said:

Honestly this is the lamest post I've ever seen on here.

Calling people fools for expressing opinions on the line up with benefit of 20/20 hindsight while being too much of a coward to offer up your own opinion. Just cringingly rubbish behaviour. 

...and yet you'll note Mr.Gutless was nowehere to be seen last Saturday after people expressed concern over the Plymouth team selection pre match

[BigFish 1,988]

22 minutes ago, king canary said:

Honestly this is the lamest post I've ever seen on here.

Calling people fools for expressing opinions on the line up with benefit of 20/20 hindsight while being too much of a coward to offer up your own opinion. Just cringingly rubbish behaviour. 

 

17 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

...and yet you'll note Mr.Gutless was nowehere to be seen last Saturday after people expressed concern over the Plymouth team selection pre match

I appreciate you guys are disappointed with the result and strangely seem to think Wagner got it wrong but that is your problem, not mine. Fact is we were confortable when set up with a pivot of McLean/Sara and were vulnerable when Forshaw came on. Rowe did ok in the role he was asked to play, Sure we will miss Sargeant and Barnes but that is not a reason to rip up the template that was worked up over weeks in pre-season.

[BigFish 1,988]

3 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Sara was miles ahead of any player on the pitch. That pass with the outside of his left foot being the pick of many good ones. And to add a goal to it mailed the decision. 

Pretty much this, good reason not to play him in a very different position,

[hogesar 9,745]

1 hour ago, Canary Jedi said:

The score line flattered us, no way was that a clean sheet worthy performance. Huge improvement needed, I hope Wagner realised that and is actively doing something about it. Yes, there are forward players missing but this is a defensive problem. Just getting Hanley back will not solve it.

Attack is the best form of defense. 

I'm not so sure. Gunn only had one good save to make. They didn't create many clear chances. One or two half decent ones.

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,297]

10 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Will it?

Or will we just be 3 games further on in the 46 game slog.

Yeah I think so.

Connor and Paddy suggested Brum was a crossroads game. To which I agree. 

If we’d lost yesterday and Wagner wheeled out “one game further on in the 46 game slog” statement… Would you honestly have been reassured or accepted that? 

Anything less than 3 points in the next 3 and we can forget the top 6, IMO.

[king canary 7,678]

8 hours ago, BigFish said:

 

I appreciate you guys are disappointed with the result and strangely seem to think Wagner got it wrong but that is your problem, not mine. Fact is we were confortable when set up with a pivot of McLean/Sara and were vulnerable when Forshaw came on. Rowe did ok in the role he was asked to play, Sure we will miss Sargeant and Barnes but that is not a reason to rip up the template that was worked up over weeks in pre-season.

 

17 hours ago, king canary said:

First trip to Carrow Road since 2019 so hoping for a big backlash to the Plymouth game and a comfortable 4-0 win.

Yeah I was just overrun with negativity and complaining about the team and subs wasn't I...

I was both delighted by the result and the performance and thought your post was bellendry of the highest order.

[king canary 7,678]

8 hours ago, hogesar said:

I'm not so sure. Gunn only had one good save to make. They didn't create many clear chances. One or two half decent ones.

There was a spell where we seemed to lose our focus a bit and Birmingham seemed to wake up at 2-0 but it was brief enough to not be a major worry.

[The Real Buh 3,480]

I actually thought before the first goal we were looking pretty weak. I was definitely worried. 
 

We definitely have big problems still. The main thing is we rally against those “ACN” games and get points. 

[Samwam27 532]

10 hours ago, BigFish said:

This is the comment that got you marked down as a fool @Samwam27

We'll have to agree to disagree @bigfish. I'm not sure how an honest opinion about team selection before a game makes one a fool.

Thought it was brave Wagner stuck with the players,  and personally i didn't agree with him, yet to his credit and the players thay got a decent result, which, i, and i assume everyone else,was pleased about. Thats the important bit and the great result

You're a strange person to make no pre game assessments but yet find the time to trawl through,and cut and paste, lots of peoples comments after the game, but call them all fools. Personally thats lame and to accuse of us of being fools is sad, when all we're doing is posting opinions about teams selection. Wagner got this one right, proving us wrong.  Ut equally it could have mis fired. Doesnt make us fools

And yet you state you 'know' how many fans wanted the result to go badly, when factually you dont. 

This is an opinions based forum, some we call right, others we get wrong. Glad Wagner got this one right, but personally im.still disappointed Warner and others after their good midweek performance didnt get a shot

[canarybubbles 1,944]

8 hours ago, hogesar said:

I'm not so sure. Gunn only had one good save to make. They didn't create many clear chances. One or two half decent ones.

I assume you are referring to the save at 0-0 shortly before we scored twice. That should have been a goal - the player was clean through with space either side of Gunn and a better player would have buried it. 0-1 down with 40 minutes left after last week's debacle and we might have seen a very different game.

Yes, Wagner deserves credit for making a brave call by giving last week's losers a chance to redeem themselves but it was a lot tighter than many on here are suggesting, and if the Birmingham player had taken that chance we might be having a very different discussion on here right now. Let's just be happy that he didn't but not get too certain that Plymouth was merely a blip.

I'm on the side of those on here who feel that playing Rowe how we did was not a success. His goal was fantastic, of course, but it had nothing to do with how we utilised him in this game. 

A quick shout out to Dimi, who some people on here like to trash. I think he has been really good for us most of the time this season, and he was excellent again yesterday.

 

[East Rider 551]

9 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

I assume you are referring to the save at 0-0 shortly before we scored twice. That should have been a goal - the player was clean through with space either side of Gunn and a better player would have buried it. 0-1 down with 40 minutes left after last week's debacle and we might have seen a very different game.

Yes, Wagner deserves credit for making a brave call by giving last week's losers a chance to redeem themselves but it was a lot tighter than many on here are suggesting, and if the Birmingham player had taken that chance we might be having a very different discussion on here right now. Let's just be happy that he didn't but not get too certain that Plymouth was merely a blip.

I'm on the side of those on here who feel that playing Rowe how we did was not a success. His goal was fantastic, of course, but it had nothing to do with how we utilised him in this game. 

A quick shout out to Dimi, who some people on here like to trash. I think he has been really good for us most of the time this season, and he was excellent again yesterday.

 

Excellent post agree with virtually everything on it. They should have scored and that may have started a toxic atmosphere. Fortunately for us the didn't. 

Of the usual scapegoats, Dimi was excellent and Kenny had another good game. Adam played well up front and would have deserved a goal. Overall a match we could have bottled but we didn't. 

Onwards and upwards

 

 

 

[Canary Wundaboy 1,360]

Having just watched the highlights it appears both Dimi and Stacey had superb games. Sara remains a cut above at this level and if we get can get him further up the pitch right from KO we’ll be back to murdering teams at this level in no time.

[The Real Buh 3,480]

Is McLean and Forshaw together too defensive or does it free up the front players is the question I guess. We certainly have width from full backs that aren’t shy to get forward 

[horsefly 4,315]

20 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

I assume you are referring to the save at 0-0 shortly before we scored twice. That should have been a goal - the player was clean through with space either side of Gunn and a better player would have buried it. 0-1 down with 40 minutes left after last week's debacle and we might have seen a very different game.

Yes, Wagner deserves credit for making a brave call by giving last week's losers a chance to redeem themselves but it was a lot tighter than many on here are suggesting, and if the Birmingham player had taken that chance we might be having a very different discussion on here right now. Let's just be happy that he didn't but not get too certain that Plymouth was merely a blip.

I'm on the side of those on here who feel that playing Rowe how we did was not a success. His goal was fantastic, of course, but it had nothing to do with how we utilised him in this game. 

A quick shout out to Dimi, who some people on here like to trash. I think he has been really good for us most of the time this season, and he was excellent again yesterday.

 

That seems a pretty fair and balanced assessment to me. I think the issue with Rowe is that he looks so much better playing out on the right-wing, cutting in. That's where he excelled at the start of the season. But then that seems to be Fassnacht's preferred position, and I wouldn't want him dropped.  Perhaps Fassy should be tried at number 10 to allow Rowe the right-wing spot? As for Sara, it seems clear that his flexible partnership with McLean typically defaults to McLean as a number 6 and Sara as a number 8. Not convinced I would change that, as it gives Sara plenty of licence to be a playmaker, and to move forward to attack the goal (as shown with his goal yesterday). 

And, yes! Dimi was excellent again yesterday, and deserved MOTM in my opinion.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,800]

12 minutes ago, horsefly said:

That seems a pretty fair and balanced assessment to me. I think the issue with Rowe is that he looks so much better playing out on the right-wing, cutting in. That's where he excelled at the start of the season. But then that seems to be Fassnacht's preferred position, and I wouldn't want him dropped.  Perhaps Fassy should be tried at number 10 to allow Rowe the right-wing spot? As for Sara, it seems clear that his flexible partnership with McLean typically defaults to McLean as a number 6 and Sara as a number 8. Not convinced I would change that, as it gives Sara plenty of licence to be a playmaker, and to move forward to attack the goal (as shown with his goal yesterday). 

And, yes! Dimi was excellent again yesterday, and deserved MOTM in my opinion.

   ..the trouble with McLean as a 6 and Sara an 8...is that we run the risk of a Plymouth or Southampton coming along every now and again..(or even a Rotherham). Who the third midfielder or no.10 is still remains a condundrum.

....maybe the returning Nunez is the key??

[lake district canary 4,545]

9 hours ago, hogesar said:

11 hours ago, Canary Jedi said:

The score line flattered us, no way was that a clean sheet worthy performance. Huge improvement needed, I hope Wagner realised that and is actively doing something about it. Yes, there are forward players missing but this is a defensive problem. Just getting Hanley back will not solve it.

Attack is the best form of defense. 

I'm not so sure. Gunn only had one good save to make. They didn't create many clear chances. One or two half decent ones.

Even just the highlights seem to contradict this. Birmingham should really have scored at least twice in this match. They didn't and we move on, but looking at the way some other teams are playing, overall we don't look that great.

[TheGunnShow 6,006]

14 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

   ..the trouble with McLean as a 6 and Sara an 8...is that we run the risk of a Plymouth or Southampton coming along every now and again..(or even a Rotherham). Who the third midfielder or no.10 is still remains a condundrum.

....maybe the returning Nunez is the key??

If we're going to keep playing wingers, we need to ditch the number 10. Sara should basically be playing as an 8  / 10 hybrid, and put another midfielder behind. One of Forshaw, Lungi or Gibbs in the middle instead.

[horsefly 4,315]

3 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

   ..the trouble with McLean as a 6 and Sara an 8...is that we run the risk of a Plymouth or Southampton coming along every now and again..(or even a Rotherham). Who the third midfielder or no.10 is still remains a condundrum.

....maybe the returning Nunez is the key??

Indeed! But given our form up until Plymouth I'm not convinced we should allow that disaster to change the basic formation which had been very successful (Southampton would have been a victory but for appalling refereeing, and the Leicester defeat was surely undeserved). It may be that against particular teams we need to adapt to a more defensive midfield pairing, but on the whole I prefer we stick with this more attacking formation. The main change I would make would be significantly to up the speed with which we move out of defence. In Placheta, Rowe, and Idah we have a front line with huge amounts of pace, and we should be playing to that strength. I'm happy to see us play out from the back, but all too often we are far too slow and invite unnecessary pressure, resulting in loss of the ball or having to hoof the ball forward in desperation. 

I could definitely see Nunez as a No.10. In the meantime I would give Fassnacht a go there (he is clearly very skilful and has a good shot) and let Rowe do his stuff on the right.

[Capt. Pants 4,277]

19 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Even just the highlights seem to contradict this. Birmingham should really have scored at least twice in this match. They didn't and we move on, but looking at the way some other teams are playing, overall we don't look that great.

Brum were making in roads down our left 1st half but didn't do it often or with quality. 

1st half going forward we created very little, it was boring. However, we looked solid and eventually created that clear chance for Sara. Rowe makes it 2 with a goal that outshone his overall performance, but that's a sign of a good player.

I was disappointed we chose to shut up shop at that point but Wagner simply had to win the game following his bold team selection.

A decent solid all round display.

[Mason 47 1,402]

I don't often get to go to CR in person but strangely B'Ham H always seems to be one of the ones that falls right.

Something that stands out, certainly in the people around me and then based on the crowd noises, is that many seem to think it's an all or nothing situation. We should be totally dominant at all times, give zero chances away and be viciously clinical winning each game by 3 or 4. This is of course a dream world version of events. 

Ultimately, it doesn't really happen in the Championship. Teams will get and give away chances. Obviously we would prefer not to give any away but even in the worst performance of the century against Plymouth we had moments and scored 2.

Not saying it was perfect by any means, and there is a certain jankiness to the system without Sargent + Barnes that needs to be rectified. But saying we didn't deserve to win the game is a bit off.

[hogesar 9,745]

37 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Even just the highlights seem to contradict this. Birmingham should really have scored at least twice in this match. They didn't and we move on, but looking at the way some other teams are playing, overall we don't look that great.

Like Leeds under fantastic Farke? Cracking result for them yesterday..

I think some are forgetting this is the championship. Ignoring the season where there was no fans, there were plenty, plenty of "tight" games like this under Farke.

[Petriix 2,853]

I still think there are systemic issues caused by the lack of ability in our attacking players.  Out of those we have available, Sara and Rowe are the ones who have the ability to score goals so I think it's totally right that people are talking about changing the system to get those players into goalscoring positions.

Watching the game yesterday it was very clear to me that Idah was the weak link with many attacks breaking down with him. His speed of thought seems glacial and he often seems to be running in treacle when there's a space he should be accelerating into. Just one better striker to bring it together and we'd be 'a different animal'.

Because we simply don't have another striker to call on and we do have plenty of midfielders, I'd like to see Rowe up front and Sara further forward. That way we don't have to go with Idah or Hwang. I think Forshaw, for sure, would bring something to the middle of the park and Sainz showed signs of enough quality to replace Fassnacht. Then we're getting closer to having our best players on the pitch. 

[hogesar 9,745]

7 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

I don't often get to go to CR in person but strangely B'Ham H always seems to be one of the ones that falls right.

Something that stands out, certainly in the people around me and then based on the crowd noises, is that many seem to think it's an all or nothing situation. We should be totally dominant at all times, give zero chances away and be viciously clinical winning each game by 3 or 4. This is of course a dream world version of events. 

Ultimately, it doesn't really happen in the Championship. Teams will get and give away chances. Obviously we would prefer not to give any away but even in the worst performance of the century against Plymouth we had moments and scored 2.

Not saying it was perfect by any means, and there is a certain jankiness to the system without Sargent + Barnes that needs to be rectified. But saying we didn't deserve to win the game is a bit off.

I think this is spot on and I only read this after my post.

People seem to relate championship success with our second title win under Farke which was behind closed doors. Yes we dominated most games start to finish but they were extreme circumstances that's never been repeated.

Our first title win, or promotion under Alex Neil are far more "normal". We arent going to dominate every game start to finish and having conceded 6 goals a week before we were obviously going to play it "safe" for a while first.

I think, because so many were hammering Wagner for sticking with his players, they don't want the win to be "good" so they can believe the stick they gave Wagner pregame was justified 🙃

[lake district canary 4,545]

6 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Like Leeds under fantastic Farke? Cracking result for them yesterday..

I think some are forgetting this is the championship. Ignoring the season where there was no fans, there were plenty, plenty of "tight" games like this under Farke.

Why bring up Farke in this context? Irrelevant.

[hogesar 9,745]

Just now, lake district canary said:

Why bring up Farke in this context? Irrelevant.

You referenced other teams. One of the strongest squads in the league with one of the better managers lost 3-1 yesterday. Pretty relevant 

[Branston Pickle 3,689]

7 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I think this is spot on and I only read this after my post.

People seem to relate championship success with our second title win under Farke which was behind closed doors. Yes we dominated most games start to finish but they were extreme circumstances that's never been repeated.

Our first title win, or promotion under Alex Neil are far more "normal". We arent going to dominate every game start to finish and having conceded 6 goals a week before we were obviously going to play it "safe" for a while first.

I think, because so many were hammering Wagner for sticking with his players, they don't want the win to be "good" so they can believe the stick they gave Wagner pregame was justified 🙃

Yup - for me, you and Mason are far closer than many.

Some seem to recall previous seasons/games with rose coloured spectacles, where we won being utterly dominant and the opposition has no possession/chances.  This is, of course, rubbish - the vast majority of football matches are won by the odd goal, and even when we were very poor last week we still had good spells.  Brum had a couple of chances, but we had more.  I can’t for the life of me understand how anyone might think it was a fortunate win by any measure.

[Branston Pickle 3,689]

1 minute ago, hogesar said:

You referenced other teams. One of the strongest squads in the league with one of the better managers lost 3-1 yesterday. Pretty relevant 

Aw leave him alone, his beloved lost and it must be painful that this happened while we won!

[king canary 7,678]

9 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Yup - for me, you and Mason are far closer than many.

Some seem to recall previous seasons/games with rose coloured spectacles, where we won being utterly dominant and the opposition has no possession/chances.  This is, of course, rubbish - the vast majority of football matches are won by the odd goal, and even when we were very poor last week we still had good spells.  Brum had a couple of chances, but we had more.  I can’t for the life of me understand how anyone might think it was a fortunate win by any measure.

Yes, you can argue Birmingham were unlucky not to score but by that same token you'd have to argue we were unlucky not to score 3 or 4 goals. On the balance of play a two goal win was more than fair.

[king canary 7,678]

27 minutes ago, Petriix said:

I still think there are systemic issues caused by the lack of ability in our attacking players.  Out of those we have available, Sara and Rowe are the ones who have the ability to score goals so I think it's totally right that people are talking about changing the system to get those players into goalscoring positions.

Watching the game yesterday it was very clear to me that Idah was the weak link with many attacks breaking down with him. His speed of thought seems glacial and he often seems to be running in treacle when there's a space he should be accelerating into. Just one better striker to bring it together and we'd be 'a different animal'.

Because we simply don't have another striker to call on and we do have plenty of midfielders, I'd like to see Rowe up front and Sara further forward. That way we don't have to go with Idah or Hwang. I think Forshaw, for sure, would bring something to the middle of the park and Sainz showed signs of enough quality to replace Fassnacht. Then we're getting closer to having our best players on the pitch. 

I wouldn't go as far to call him a weak link but he's far too peripheral to the game at times.

It's noticeable most games Idah has a very low amount of touches in comparison with Sargent in similar games. Yesterday he had 24 touches, significantly less than anyone else who started. Obviously strikers touch the ball less than central defenders or midfielders but in comparison to Sargent he's always much lower. 

He needs to be more involved off the ball too. Sargent is a great out balk under pressure as you can punt it into the channels if needs be and know he'll at least put the defenders under pressure so it doesn't just come right back. Idah needs to work on this side to become more than backup option.