A player I never thought I would give credit to

[cambridgeshire canary 6,769]

Look, I'll admit to thinking that it has turned out we were a little bit scammed when we bought Gibson and that maybe there's a reason Burnley did not want him but..

Against Sheffield he did put in a decent shift. Seemed to be the only player all match who bothered to clear the ball anytime it came into the box too, had to do so about five times as all our other defenders seemed to be having more fun standing around ball watching instead.

[Ulfotto 641]

Personally I think the issue isn’t with Hanley, Gibson or Big Andy it’s the fact there isn’t a natural defensive midfielder player sat in front of them to break up play or help play through the press. They are all good championship centre backs.

[Coneys Knee 983]

1 minute ago, Ulfotto said:

Personally I think the issue isn’t with Hanley, Gibson or Big Andy it’s the fact there isn’t a natural defensive midfielder player sat in front of them to break up play or help play through the press. They are all good championship centre backs.

Surely you’re not suggesting that our recruitment team wasn’t sharp enough to replace Skipp and Tettey adequately are you? Ha

[Capt. Pants 4,271]

In theory Gibbs, Sorensen and McLean should be adequate for this Division and the quality we're up against. The issue from where I sit is that McLean sits far too deep, practically in line with the CHs leaving a huge gap between defence and attack/midfield.

All our defenders are solid but are prone to silly errors from time to time. I like Gibbo, good bloke and very decent on the ball.

 

[Barry Brockes 147]

Everyone seems to rate Gibbs - apart from Wagner.  I thought he was very good earlier on in the season and would be one of the first names on the team sheet if I was Head Coach - but I'm not.

[Capt. Pants 4,271]

3 minutes ago, Barry Brockes said:

Everyone seems to rate Gibbs - apart from Wagner.  I thought he was very good earlier on in the season and would be one of the first names on the team sheet if I was Head Coach - but I'm not.

Gibbs hasn't really had a look in since Smith left. To be fair to Smith he saw the potential and played him. I don't see why we've suddenly thwarted that development.

[ged in the onion bag 856]

5 years and still no permanent CDM is negligent with this type of playing philosophy.    We’ve been exposed every season and it certainly doesn’t help our defenders.     
 

How does this argument that our players are good enough for this level fit with a top 26 approach?   That’s why we’re failing, fans (and it seems the club) have expectations this group could never deliver.

[Google Bot 3,298]

Trouble is, he was clearing it straight to United players feet.  As said on here, there needs to be someone in that area cutting all this out, or at the very least someone making themselves available to pick up on a cleared header - we're mentally and physically weak in through central mid.

[Canary Wundaboy 1,359]

1 hour ago, Ulfotto said:

Personally I think the issue isn’t with Hanley, Gibson or Big Andy it’s the fact there isn’t a natural defensive midfielder player sat in front of them to break up play or help play through the press. They are all good championship centre backs.

"How could these players look so good in the Champs 2 years ago but now look so bad?"

Easy. Skipp is missing. The failure to secure a permanent, non-injured, quality CDM has been at the root of our problems for the past 2 seasons. Hayden and Normann both sicknotes, Gibbs not given enough of a chance, Sorenson and McLean not enough of that focused "destroyer" role we so desperately need.

[SteveN8458 64]

1 hour ago, Coneys Knee said:

Surely you’re not suggesting that our recruitment team wasn’t sharp enough to replace Skipp and Tettey adequately are you? Ha

Err  YES

[yellowrider120 775]

1 hour ago, Capt. Pants said:

Gibbs hasn't really had a look in since Smith left. To be fair to Smith he saw the potential and played him. I don't see why we've suddenly thwarted that development.

Totally agree. It was as obvious as night following day that we should have played Gibbs from the start v Blades or brought him on at half time at the latest. Who would have thought it but perhaps Smith wasn't such a numpty after all? Just saying.

[shefcanary 2,439]

When was Lungi last played in the defensive midfield pivot role? Millwall! Any coincidence that we haven't performed well since then. I agree with others on here, the defence seems to gain confidence by having him there; even if he is not the most dynamic of players, he seems to free up those around him.

Wagner surely must see this. If he really does want to compete in the play-offs he has to stop experimenting with the attacking players, go back to the 4-2-3-1, with only ONE of Pukki / Idah / Sargent starting. They are all front men, sure with different characteristics, but none of them play well out of position. Sara can then play the role behind one of these front men, Tzolis and Marquinhos making up the three. 

Otherwise, stop the pretence, stop playing those he doesn't see here next season and get those that are staying to play the way he wants us to next season now. Sure, I don't expect any great performances, but at least we hopefully can see some kind of identity begin to take shape. The current fudges are just so dispiriting for everyone. 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,769]

1 hour ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

"How could these players look so good in the Champs 2 years ago but now look so bad?"

Easy. Skipp is missing. The failure to secure a permanent, non-injured, quality CDM has been at the root of our problems for the past 2 seasons. Hayden and Normann both sicknotes, Gibbs not given enough of a chance, Sorenson and McLean not enough of that focused "destroyer" role we so desperately need.

Don't forget Buendia.. Rashica had promise but flopped and Marqinhos is not shining bright.

And less said about Sargent and Idah on the wing

[hogesar 9,717]

28 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

When was Lungi last played in the defensive midfield pivot role? Millwall! Any coincidence that we haven't performed well since then. I agree with others on here, the defence seems to gain confidence by having him there; even if he is not the most dynamic of players, he seems to free up those around him.

Wagner surely must see this. If he really does want to compete in the play-offs he has to stop experimenting with the attacking players, go back to the 4-2-3-1, with only ONE of Pukki / Idah / Sargent starting. They are all front men, sure with different characteristics, but none of them play well out of position. Sara can then play the role behind one of these front men, Tzolis and Marquinhos making up the three. 

Otherwise, stop the pretence, stop playing those he doesn't see here next season and get those that are staying to play the way he wants us to next season now. Sure, I don't expect any great performances, but at least we hopefully can see some kind of identity begin to take shape. The current fudges are just so dispiriting for everyone. 

I don't rate Sorensen himself but your overall point is valid. I really don't understand why Wagner is happy to lose the midfield battle before we've even started. Mclean deep, Sara forwards and a huge gap in between. I'd rather see Mclean, Gibbs and Sara in a midfield. 

We bemoan us losing the ball, giving it away under little pressure but that's because when we're deep, Mclean is the only option and he's often the guy with the ball. Our only way out is for a Gini or Aarons to drive us up the pitch via dribbling but that's high risk.

[Robert N. LiM 4,463]

17 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I'd rather see Mclean, Gibbs and Sara in a midfield. 

We played Kenny, Lungi and Sara in midfield against Millwall and that's as well as we've played all season in my view. We held on well when not at our best in the first half, then took control in the second. Like you, I think I'd prefer Gibbs to Lungi, but two DMs (to cover the fact we don't really have one!) allowing Sara to be further forward, almost a 10, is surely our best option.

[Fifty 45]

If looking at defensive midfielders, Marvellous Nakamba has been very good on loan for Luton since joining from Villa in Jan. 
 

Doubts from Villa fans as to whether he is premiership quality but we can cross that bridge when we come to it. Possibly one they are looking to offload in the summer and presuming they haven’t been promoted we could outbid Luton?

 

Great name too

 

[Midlands Yellow 4,026]

5 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Look, I'll admit to thinking that it has turned out we were a little bit scammed when we bought Gibson and that maybe there's a reason Burnley did not want him but..

Against Sheffield he did put in a decent shift. Seemed to be the only player all match who bothered to clear the ball anytime it came into the box too, had to do so about five times as all our other defenders seemed to be having more fun standing around ball watching instead.

Absolute steal at £8m, Webber needs to find more bargains like him in the summer. 

[PockthorpePete 331]

4 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

5 years and still no permanent CDM is negligent with this type of playing philosophy.    We’ve been exposed every season and it certainly doesn’t help our defenders.     
 

How does this argument that our players are good enough for this level fit with a top 26 approach?   That’s why we’re failing, fans (and it seems the club) have expectations this group could never deliver.

No. It is a case that many fans have expectations that very few clubs bar those at the top of the PL can match. We had a good run, the past decade. Often good fortune plays a part. With us, it was having two prolific goalscorers in Holt and then Pukki.

There is no guaranteed certain of success as some on here seem to demand. If there was this winning formula then those responsible would not still be at Carrow Road - they would most likely be at Chelsea or Liverpool.

We are told the binners are successful They have a chance of escaping a league where some clubs no bigger than Kings Lynn. Four decades (40 years) of failure with one Div 2 title to show (we have won 4 in the same period) 20 years out of the PL, 4 of which have been in the 3rd Div. They would have given anything to have enjoyed what we have over the past decade or so.

And as to our supposed failings then explain why so many PL clubs are only a couple of points above the relegation zone. Did they not 'give it a go' ?

[Alfie54 76]

5 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

In theory Gibbs, Sorensen and McLean should be adequate for this Division and the quality we're up against. The issue from where I sit is that McLean sits far too deep, practically in line with the CHs leaving a huge gap between defence and attack/midfield.

All our defenders are solid but are prone to silly errors from time to time. I like Gibbo, good bloke and very decent on the ball.

 

Completely agree, should have played Sorensen and Gibbs instead of Pukki and Idah

[Channon’s Windmill 327]

Midfield? Who needs a midfield in the championship? we have Pukki upfront and two international centre backs. Our inability to realise this year upon year is criminal. Always needed a back up option to Hayden. Big gamble didn’t pay off and will probably cost us a good few years.

[ged in the onion bag 856]

21 hours ago, PockthorpePete said:

No. It is a case that many fans have expectations that very few clubs bar those at the top of the PL can match. We had a good run, the past decade. Often good fortune plays a part. With us, it was having two prolific goalscorers in Holt and then Pukki.

There is no guaranteed certain of success as some on here seem to demand. If there was this winning formula then those responsible would not still be at Carrow Road - they would most likely be at Chelsea or Liverpool.

We are told the binners are successful They have a chance of escaping a league where some clubs no bigger than Kings Lynn. Four decades (40 years) of failure with one Div 2 title to show (we have won 4 in the same period) 20 years out of the PL, 4 of which have been in the 3rd Div. They would have given anything to have enjoyed what we have over the past decade or so.

And as to our supposed failings then explain why so many PL clubs are only a couple of points above the relegation zone. Did they not 'give it a go' ?

No idea what any of this has to do with my post!    You’ve gone off on one there!    

[Chelm Canary 404]

I do find his performances hard to justify 8 million and 40k a week wages.

[ron obvious 1,514]

On 03/04/2023 at 13:43, Midlands Yellow said:

Absolute steal at £8m, Webber needs to find more bargains like him in the summer. 

Talking of steals, didn't Ndiaye come from Borehamwood? Sometimes scouting closer to home can be fruitful.

Gibson is fine 90% of the time. Then he makes an almighty c0ck-up (or two). In that way he reminds me of Bassong. Tolerance of error rises from 0% at goalie to 50% when a forward has to risk it to score, So that's his (& so our) problem.

Edited April 4, 2023 by ron obvious

[shefcanary 2,439]

1 hour ago, ron obvious said:

Talking of steals, didn't Ndiaye come from Borehamwood? Sometimes scouting closer to home can be fruitful.

What a find that was for the Blades. Surely we can find someone similar on the same basis?

[Midlands Yellow 4,026]

5 hours ago, ron obvious said:

Talking of steals, didn't Ndiaye come from Borehamwood? Sometimes scouting closer to home can be fruitful.

Gibson is fine 90% of the time. Then he makes an almighty c0ck-up (or two). In that way he reminds me of Bassong. Tolerance of error rises from 0% at goalie to 50% when a forward has to risk it to score, So that's his (& so our) problem.

He should be in prime form now for his age. What would any other club pay for him, £1.5m tops? 

[norfolkngood 1,087]

On 03/04/2023 at 11:29, hogesar said:

I don't rate Sorensen himself but your overall point is valid. I really don't understand why Wagner is happy to lose the midfield battle before we've even started. Mclean deep, Sara forwards and a huge gap in between. I'd rather see Mclean, Gibbs and Sara in a midfield. 

We bemoan us losing the ball, giving it away under little pressure but that's because when we're deep, Mclean is the only option and he's often the guy with the ball. Our only way out is for a Gini or Aarons to drive us up the pitch via dribbling but that's high risk.

you are right Hog 

i know it is not the Wagner way or the way we want the club to play long term 

But the other option is to hit it long to Idah or Sarge who should be up against a smaller full back 

both should be able to hold it up 

this giving the team a chance to move up the pitch then the midfield can get the second ball 

the problem with our mistakes they are so close to goal it normally is a chance 

IF i was Head coach first thing i would say Gibson Hanley back to basics get the ball away from danger asap 

clear it regroup