Lets face it....this is our true level

[Bradwell canary 112]

Let look at facts, we have several goes at staying in the PL.

All to no avail. This club from top to bottom needs a massive revamp, but even then  we would not cut it up there. Even since our fleeting visit last season spending on transfer fees have just gone up once agaionn'

The American Manager at Leeds said it is out of control, there should be a cap. But we all know that will never happen.

So in the meantime we will plod on. Webber will hold himself in high esteem . If he gets this appointment wrong, having sacked two of the managers he himself selected..........

[Nexus_Canary 1,206]

🙄

[cambridgeshire canary 7,797]

Might get lucky and pull a Huddersfield and get to stay in the top flight for an extra season before reality comes crumbling down on top of you and you're back in the championship before you know it but yes sadly it seems our clubs model does not work in the modern game much as I wish it would

Edited January 5, 2023 by cambridgeshire canary

[Thirsty Lizard 3,215]

3 minutes ago, Bradwell canary said:

Let look at facts, we have several goes at staying in the PL.

All to no avail. This club from top to bottom needs a massive revamp, but even then  we would not cut it up there. Even since our fleeting visit last season spending on transfer fees have just gone up once agaionn'

The American Manager at Leeds said it is out of control, there should be a cap. But we all know that will never happen.

So in the meantime we will plod on. Webber will hold himself in high esteem . If he gets this appointment wrong, having sacked two of the managers he himself selected..........

Do you think Webber's appointment of Farke was a good decision or a bad decision? 

[Nora's Ghost 157]

Check out the leagues and look at clubs from similar and often bigger conurbations.

 

We belong where we are good enough to be and since the great Robert Chase was hounded out that has been Division 2 (Championship for the kiddies).

[Google Bot 3,927]

8 minutes ago, Bradwell canary said:

All to no avail. This club from top to bottom needs a massive revamp

Of course this is our level and we've been punching way above it.   We sat in the bottom 3 with Newcastle and now look at us both, it's nothing to do with revamp the game is ****ed and purely about money now.

But there's no shame in what we're attempting, and the failures we've endured... No need for massive revamps when you're punching either - currently we're at our mean (average) point.  We've not dipped below that (yet!).

Edited January 5, 2023 by Google Bot

[Mason 47 1,921]

All a matter of perspective, really. There is the thing itself, and the story we tell ourselves about what it means.

If you  want to decide that League 2 is actually our level, we're really not doing that bad at all 🤗

[PockthorpePete 331]

3 hours ago, Bradwell canary said:

Let look at facts, we have several goes at staying in the PL.

All to no avail. This club from top to bottom needs a massive revamp, but even then  we would not cut it up there. Even since our fleeting visit last season spending on transfer fees have just gone up once agaionn'

The American Manager at Leeds said it is out of control, there should be a cap. But we all know that will never happen.

So in the meantime we will plod on. Webber will hold himself in high esteem . If he gets this appointment wrong, having sacked two of the managers he himself selected..........

Yes, why can't we be like Cardiff, Boro, Hull, Sunderland, Swansea, Bolton, Wigan, Blackburn, Stoke, Reading, QPR ? You don't see them strugglingin the Championship year in year out. Devoid of any real hope. A club our size should be top 8 in the PL, minimum. Whereas clubs the size of Weds, Derby and thebinners should be in the Championship. I wonder why they aren't. Perhaps they are all as 'useless' as City.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

3 hours ago, Nora's Ghost said:

Check out the leagues and look at clubs from similar and often bigger conurbations.

 

We belong where we are good enough to be and since the great Robert Chase was hounded out that has been Division 2 (Championship for the kiddies).

At least it's not division three.

Cobbolds must be spinning right now. But every club will find their level...

[Canary Wundaboy 1,423]

We have zero God-given right to be in the Premier League. What is criminal is that we've managed to give ourselves multiple bites at the cherry over the past decade and have failed horrendously at capitalising on the opportunities we've had to survive in that League. Unfortunately we've been severely hamstrung by finances due to our owners, I can only hope that we get another chance under new ownership that means we can actually inject some proper EPL quality into the team and give ourselves at least a chance of staying up, rather than the demoralising and humiliating capitulations we've had recently.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

6 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

We have zero God-given right to be in the Premier League. What is criminal is that we've managed to give ourselves multiple bites at the cherry over the past decade and have failed horrendously at capitalising on the opportunities we've had to survive in that League. Unfortunately we've been severely hamstrung by finances due to our owners, I can only hope that we get another chance under new ownership that means we can actually inject some proper EPL quality into the team and give ourselves at least a chance of staying up, rather than the demoralising and humiliating capitulations we've had recently.

Well surely if we can continue to do it whilst hamstrung it will be a piece of **** when they're gone?

[horsefly 5,301]

4 hours ago, Bradwell canary said:

Let look at facts, we have several goes at staying in the PL.

All to no avail. This club from top to bottom needs a massive revamp, but even then  we would not cut it up there. Even since our fleeting visit last season spending on transfer fees have just gone up once agaionn'

The American Manager at Leeds said it is out of control, there should be a cap. But we all know that will never happen.

So in the meantime we will plod on. Webber will hold himself in high esteem . If he gets this appointment wrong, having sacked two of the managers he himself selected..........

I find this attitude strange. Webber has been nothing but honest about what our self-funding model means in terns of what our ambitions might realistically be. There was a very good reason why the club's business plan described our ambition to be in the top 26 clubs in the country. Frankly I get bored with people failing to appreciate the honesty of that declaration. Failing the sudden appearance of a beneficent billionaire ready to blow hundreds of millions on transfers, the self-funding model is the only plausible model that secures our future survival. 

I hate the fact that the PL is a financial sewer that puts honest clubs like ours at a massive disadvantage, but sadly there is sweet FA that we can do about that. Our last 2 seasons in the PL have been a painful experience, but the idea that a self-funding club can simply eschew the prospect of hundreds of millions in PL revenue is for those without an ounce of business understanding. Just what is a "major revamp" supposed to mean? If you think we should be aiming to spend several years in the Championship on some vague "rebuilding project", then I suggest you take a look at a club 40 miles south of Norwich.

Performance over the course of a current season determines where you belong the next season. And so far, for the majority of Webber's reign, top 26 is precisely where the club has been. 

[Yellow Fever 4,415]

I actually smile when I see this.

If you truly believed that the EPL is way way above the championship level then it would ALWAYS be a given that the 3 bottom clubs of the EPL would ALWAYs be repromoted the following season. Top six or 10 may be different.

I bet us and Watford would love that to be true.

Yes its difficult to step up and survive but there are endless examples. Oddly from a purely fiscal perspective we actually look a better long term bet than many an EPL club - large fan base in single city / region plus a fairly iconic strip for global marketing purposes.

Doesn't surprise me at all that Attanasio thinks its worth a punt but with eyes wide open. Get promoted again with some fiscal prudence and I suspect we might then stay few season with a little US help and become established (whatever that may mean in the EPL).

Edited January 5, 2023 by Yellow Fever

[PockthorpePete 331]

53 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

We have zero God-given right to be in the Premier League. What is criminal is that we've managed to give ourselves multiple bites at the cherry over the past decade and have failed horrendously at capitalising on the opportunities we've had to survive in that League. Unfortunately we've been severely hamstrung by finances due to our owners, I can only hope that we get another chance under new ownership that means we can actually inject some proper EPL quality into the team and give ourselves at least a chance of staying up, rather than the demoralising and humiliating capitulations we've had recently.

You rather overlook cause and effect as do so many others. That we have been able to gain promotion iss almost solely due to the approach we have taken when promoted. Yes we could have blown money on signings and wages that would not be sustainable were we to be relegated. Hence us having the resources to be challengers again. You cannot seperate the two. It is our more sensible approach that allows this. Look at the dozen or more Championshiup clubs with little hope of ever going up (for the forseeeable) Look into LI and spot Bolton, Weds Derby and the binners who pursued this delusion that all is needed is to nearly bankrupt yourselves in order to be a few results away from relegation from the PL. Until the structutre of the PL is changed then there is no point in us wrecking our club hoping to stay up.

[littleyellowbirdie 3,138]

10 hours ago, Bradwell canary said:

Let look at facts, we have several goes at staying in the PL.

All to no avail. This club from top to bottom needs a massive revamp, but even then  we would not cut it up there. Even since our fleeting visit last season spending on transfer fees have just gone up once agaionn'

The American Manager at Leeds said it is out of control, there should be a cap. But we all know that will never happen.

So in the meantime we will plod on. Webber will hold himself in high esteem . If he gets this appointment wrong, having sacked two of the managers he himself selected..........

No. Your true level is wherever you finish at the end of each season; it's something to always try and improve on, without getting too hysterical if you don't.

I don't get the point of trying to pigeon-hole your own club like this.

Practically all sacked managers are sacked by the people who appointed them, so don't see much significance in that point, and two isn't even that many over 5 years?

[DraytonBoy 247]

Staying in the PL is a bit of a lottery as you never know until the season starts how well the Championship team will perform at the higher level, the last two campaigns have shown that the summer recruitment was poor but I think perhaps the style/setup was also partly to blame and that's down to the coach/manager.

The best comparison to City for me is Brentford, the owner's wealth is on a par with Delia and Michael so you'd assume the budget is similar but they have developed a squad and style over a number of years that seems to work in both leagues, they have though stuck with Frank whose been there six years now which is not what City have done so it could be that they just struck lucky with him. 

I may be proved wrong but I don't think giving Wagner a rolling 12 month contract is the way to go as it doesn't exactly shout 'we've got the right man for the job', if Webber was convinced DW was the answer why not give him 2/3 years and let him overhaul the team as it's sorely needed?

[7HAR1980 137]

Defeatist attitude. 

We should always strive to be the best we can be! 

[Well b back 3,603]

18 hours ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Do you think Webber's appointment of Farke was a good decision or a bad decision? 

Do you think his sacking was a good decision or bad decision 

[Commonsense 802]

59 minutes ago, DraytonBoy said:

Staying in the PL is a bit of a lottery as you never know until the season starts how well the Championship team will perform at the higher level, the last two campaigns have shown that the summer recruitment was poor but I think perhaps the style/setup was also partly to blame and that's down to the coach/manager.

The best comparison to City for me is Brentford, the owner's wealth is on a par with Delia and Michael so you'd assume the budget is similar but they have developed a squad and style over a number of years that seems to work in both leagues, they have though stuck with Frank whose been there six years now which is not what City have done so it could be that they just struck lucky with him. 

I may be proved wrong but I don't think giving Wagner a rolling 12 month contract is the way to go as it doesn't exactly shout 'we've got the right man for the job', if Webber was convinced DW was the answer why not give him 2/3 years and let him overhaul the team as it's sorely needed?

They were able to appoint Frank because Dean Smith left, so you never know!!!

[Nexus_Canary 1,206]

The financial gulf between us and the top of the prem well even the middle is huge.

Frankly I would rather be league one than sell our club soul for dirty oil money.

I know there are Norwich fans itching for that... Maybe go support Newcastle or Money Cheat Citeh while you wait for Norwich to be bought out?

Don't want to sound harsh but your expectations and the reality are separated by a screaming great void.

[Badger 2,745]

The reality is that a club our size is  always likely to be a yoyo club under current arrangements - our natural position is bottom half premier league to top half championship - even in the "glory days" of the 80s and 90s, the next relegation was never far from the horizon. I expect the new financial arrangements will help us in this respect, but won't fundamentally change the position.

We are far from unique in this respect, there are many other clubs in similar situations. Where have been slightly different in recent seasons is our yo yoing has been high frequency. We have a lower amplitude, higher frequency yo yo whilst other clubs seem to have a higher amplitude (higher highs, lower lows) but  lower frequency model.

The wealth of our owners is something of a distraction in this issue as there are no clubs that only get crowds in the 20,000s that have become permanent premier league fixtures. There are some clubs that look good now, but it is unlikely to last anymore than Charlton, Stoke, Blackburn, Ipswich, Swansea, Wigan have done in the past. So far, at least, there have been no owners of clubs our size that have been prepared to subsidise their clubs by tens of millions pa indefinitely.

I know as I say this though that there will some who will delude themselves and others by saying if only we had spent a bit more we'd have reached the place in in the sun for ever, when in fact the best that could be hoped is that it would temporarily change our wavelength into a lower frequency and higher amplitude one.

[littleyellowbirdie 3,138]

3 hours ago, DraytonBoy said:

Staying in the PL is a bit of a lottery as you never know until the season starts how well the Championship team will perform at the higher level, the last two campaigns have shown that the summer recruitment was poor but I think perhaps the style/setup was also partly to blame and that's down to the coach/manager.

The best comparison to City for me is Brentford, the owner's wealth is on a par with Delia and Michael so you'd assume the budget is similar but they have developed a squad and style over a number of years that seems to work in both leagues, they have though stuck with Frank whose been there six years now which is not what City have done so it could be that they just struck lucky with him. 

I may be proved wrong but I don't think giving Wagner a rolling 12 month contract is the way to go as it doesn't exactly shout 'we've got the right man for the job', if Webber was convinced DW was the answer why not give him 2/3 years and let him overhaul the team as it's sorely needed?

Realistically, whatever the board my think, if the fans don't get behind the appointee then longer contracts are simply money wasted on compensation. Also, psychologically, it takes away the constant 'sack the manager' pressure knowing everyone can just walk away in a year.

[kenfoggo 261]

To achieve promotion this season will be a big ask. To stay in the Premiership at anytime for a Club of our size will be a HUGE ask. Supporting Norwich will always be a rollercoaster ride, but on the journey we occasionally get to see some splendid football . We all hope that the turgid, boring, dross  Dean Smith days are now behind us and some entertaining, attractive soccer can again be introduced at Carrow Road.

[Indy 3,471]

I absolutely agree, Nutty always puts it in a very good way, but we also need to be very careful to maintain this standard as our level, other clubs who were smaller are building on their structure, wealth and potential, it’s all too easy to stagnate and slip backwards too.

I believe we do need the change in ownership and stewardship to maintain to push our aim for top end championship with occasional visits to the premiership, if not we could find ourselves back to long struggle of lower end championship with relegation fights, not something none of us want.